Kennatsu fucked around with this message on 08-05-2006 at 09:46 PM.
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Kennatsu thought about the meaning of life:
Now I've been thinking
Well here's your problem
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Kennatsu wrote their words upon the rocks;
Now I've been thinking... Assuming no one else knows its weak point, would other planet destroying machines such as the Death Star and the Transformer known as Unicron have a chance at taking it down?
Unicron could (I swear we've had this thread before), because the only thing that can defeat Unicron is the Autobot Matrix of Leadership.
And as for the Death Star, if a dilapitated Constitution class starhip can take out the Doomsday machine, the Death Star's superlaser could take it out easily. They'll set a course as soon as those X-wings get out of the trench...
Though to be blunt, Unicron's alleged weakness to only the Matrix is kind of a cop out. If anything, the Matrix affects Unicron in a weak spot (probably backdoors his programming on a major scale, which is saying something because he's the size of a frickin' planet and must have backups). That's as nit-picky as Star Trek people taking one line out of one episode of TNG out of context and saying that lasers couldn't hurt the Enterprise. It's not the type of weapon, it's the power behind it.
Unicron vs the Death Star I would be a good one. Comes down to whether or not the Death Star hits Unicron with the first blast. If it doesn't, the Death Star is screwed, and there's a fairly decent chance the Death Star COULD miss. Unicron can transform and move around. Even at the relative size of a planet, given the limited firing arc on the Death Star, and the fact that it has to power up (slow refire rate) and couldn't accurately target anything smaller or more complex than a "stationary" planet (Alderaan, presumably in it's regular predictable orbit), Unicron has a somewhat decent chance to evade. If Unicron gets his big ugly feet on the Death Star, it's all over. Best chance to survive is that Unicron doesn't apparently have hyperspace drives, and the Death Star does. Of course, if the Death Star's superlaser hits Unicron, he's got serious problems. Keep in mind the prototype laser on the prototype "proof of concept" Death Star could still kill a world by cracking the crust. Didn't blow up the planet, but it still did insane damage. The full-on Death Stars' superlasers blew a planet up in one hit, one instant. I don't care if Unicron's "spark" or whatever survives...the Death Star would win if it shot first. (Of course, if Unicron's spark got in the Death Star, then we all be fucked)
Unicron vs the Death Star II is less a roll of the dice. The Death Star II had a faster refire rate and could target capital ships. Unicron would need some sort of diversionary tactic to get close, but I give the Death Star far better odds of survival. Same deal, though, regarding the first shot. If the Death Star gets first shot on Unicron, it's all over.
Another interesting one for the grudge match would be Ultimate Galactus. Ultimate Galactus would actually like Unicron, and it would HATE the little organic fleshlings on the Death Star. No real chance for survival on the part of the Death Star.
sigpic courtesy of This Guy, original modified by me
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Tristan had this to say about the Spice Girls:
Keep in mind it was taken out by a 90-odd megaton blast in it's "mouth". Given that 90 megatons is nothing is most sci-fi settings, and that given ships are likely to be pouring fire into it, AND that the mouth is a fairly clear target, that thing is going down.
It in itself was only a prototype, meant to battle of all things the Borg. 90 mega tons in a confined space is nothing to sneeze at. By this time it was very old its possible it wsant destroyed but just had a few vital circuts blown.
Remember the outer hull was undamaged.
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This insanity brought to you by Almond:
It in itself was only a prototype, meant to battle of all things the Borg. 90 mega tons in a confined space is nothing to sneeze at. By this time it was very old its possible it wsant destroyed but just had a few vital circuts blown.Remember the outer hull was undamaged.
WTF are you talking about?
I don't remember the lame ass Borg in TOS
The DS will grab the Doomsday machine in a tractor beam and hit it with its surface guns until it blows up, or
The DS will just fire at it until it blows up. Absolutely no contest. The DS, in addition to the superlaser, has approximately 500,000 anti-capship surface guns. Something to keep in mind: With each superlaser blast, the DS uses more energy than our sun generates in 7000 years. It's probably one of the most wanked pieces of sci fi tech.
Under capitalism, man exploits man. Under communism, it's just the opposite. - John Kenneth Galbraith
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Tristan had this to say about Optimus Prime:
Deth, keep in mind that both death stars were covered with millions with heavy turbolasers, each rated at roughly a teraton (1,000,000 megatons) per shot. Given that the autobots had nowhere near that level of firepower, they likely never would have considered it as a viable option when discussing weaknesses.
And Unicron is designed to devour entire planets, which I'm guessing does a lot more damage in released energy and flying matter chunks than oodles of lasers. Besides, STRICTLY SPEAKING if you want to get shitty, Unicron was capable of making little evil transformers, and we all know how well the Death Stars handled snub-fighter sized threats.
sigpic courtesy of This Guy, original modified by me
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Ja'Deth Issar Ka'bael stumbled drunkenly to the keyboard and typed:
And Unicron is designed to devour entire planets, which I'm guessing does a lot more damage in released energy and flying matter chunks than oodles of lasers. Besides, STRICTLY SPEAKING if you want to get shitty, Unicron was capable of making little evil transformers, and we all know how well the Death Stars handled snub-fighter sized threats.
Personally, I think Unicron would just send little robots into the DS1 to remake it into a female Unicron, and then get jiggy with it.
Much to the horror of all the fleshy little humans that were unable to escape the DS1 in time.
It is held in thought
only by the understanding
of the Wind.
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How.... Peter.... uughhhhhh:
WTF are you talking about?I don't remember the lame ass Borg in TOS
Some latter novel stated it so I guess its now cannon?
Transformers don't have the force, and would not be able to make the same precise shot luke did.
X-Wing from that era is 12.5m. I cant find any source that lists the actual dimensions of a given transformer, but I know they are generally pretty big, with some exceptions. I saw a few clips of one of those shitty Transformers plus little kids and pokerobots and the robots were all like 100 feet tall or something.
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Tristan wrote this then went back to looking for porn:
Keep in mind it was taken out by a 90-odd megaton blast in it's "mouth".
I'll give you a 90-odd megaton blast in your "mouth".
Hurrrrrrr
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This insanity brought to you by Gadani:
I'll give you a 90-odd megaton blast in your "mouth".Hurrrrrrr
This is the only worthwhile post in this thread.
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Almond impressed everyone with:
Some latter novel stated it so I guess its now cannon?
The ST novels are not canon.
The ST Novels are canon. The SW novels are what lucas said won't be canon if they make movies after EP6
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Elvish Crack Piper had this to say about John Romero:
No.The ST Novels are canon. The SW novels are what lucas said won't be canon if they make movies after EP6
Will you accept a Wikipedia link that will tell you that you are wrong?
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Tarquinn probably says this to all the girls:
Will you accept a Wikipedia link that will tell you that you are wrong?
No, because he'll just go and change the wikipedia entry to say he's right first!
Thanks for the link.
edit: post made while your post was just following my last, reading comprehensive section. Elvish Crack Piper fucked around with this message on 08-07-2006 at 02:12 AM.
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Elvish Crack Piper stopped beating up furries long enough to write:
Same way you have no way of knowing that IG-88 corrected errors in the DS2 shots to make it fire faster and more accuratly without reading "Tales of Bounty Hunters" He wanted to control the DS2 himself.Transformers don't have the force, and would not be able to make the same precise shot luke did.
X-Wing from that era is 12.5m. I cant find any source that lists the actual dimensions of a given transformer, but I know they are generally pretty big, with some exceptions. I saw a few clips of one of those shitty Transformers plus little kids and pokerobots and the robots were all like 100 feet tall or something.
Well...some of them like Starscream, Thundercracker, Skywarp, etc are the size of F-15's (or F22's these days). Plus there's evidence that Transformers come in a variety of sizes (Rattrap vs Optimus Primal, Bumblebee vs Optimus Prime, Optimus Prime vs Metroplex or Fortress Maximus), so I don't see anything that says they can't be the same size as snub fighters from Star Wars. As for accuracy, I fail to see any evidence the Transformers are any worse a shot with their integral weapons than Luke is with the Force.
Likewise, say you dropped Fortress Maximus (transforms into a battle fortress) or Metroplex (turns into a small Transformers-scale CITY), or their evil counterparts (Scorpnok and...I can't remember the giant godzilla-looking guy) on the Death Star. Would have a similar effect, in theory, to ramming the Death Star with an SSD.
sigpic courtesy of This Guy, original modified by me
Please grab a dictionary and look up these two words:
-Canon
-Cannon
Under capitalism, man exploits man. Under communism, it's just the opposite. - John Kenneth Galbraith
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So quoth Tarquinn:
Got a task for you, Almond.Please grab a dictionary and look up these two words:
-Canon
-Cannon
CANON - Eccl. Law. This word is taken from the Greek and signifies a rule or law. In ecelesiastical law, it is also used to designate an order of religious persons. Some say the reason why the ecclesiastics called the rules they established canons or rules (canones id est regulas) and not laws, was modesty. They did not dare to call them (leges) laws, lest they should seem to arrogate to themselves the authority of princes and magistrates.
CANONIST - One well versed in canon or ecclesiastical law.
Oops, thank you for correcting me.
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Ja'Deth Issar Ka'bael fell asleep and read just about every paragraph.Likewise, say you dropped Fortress Maximus (transforms into a battle fortress) or Metroplex (turns into a small Transformers-scale CITY), or their evil counterparts (Scorpnok and...I can't remember the giant godzilla-looking guy) on the Death Star. Would have a similar effect, in theory, to ramming the Death Star with an SSD.
Trypticon.
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The logic train ran off the tracks when Elvish Crack Piper said:
If they are big enough to crash SSD style, they are big enough to get destroyed by the super laser and accompanying laser towers.
Except, unlike Star Wars, there are reasonably common cloaking devices in TF.
And if deflector shields couldn't keep the snub fighters in Star Wars away, they couldn't keep the snub fighter-sized Transformers away, at which point they converge on shield emitters, bring down a grid, then have Trypticon (thank you Mightion), Scorpnok, Fort Max, and Metroplex do an all-Cybertronian Riverdance on the Death Star's surface.
sigpic courtesy of This Guy, original modified by me
sigpic courtesy of This Guy, original modified by me
Likewise, you have to keep in mind that the DS is referred to as being the size of a small moon, and we saw Unicron eat several moons in his day
sigpic courtesy of This Guy, original modified by me
That's right, I went there.
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And now, we sprinkle Ja'Deth Issar Ka'bael liberally with Old Spice!
Except, unlike Star Wars, there are reasonably common cloaking devices in TF.And if deflector shields couldn't keep the snub fighters in Star Wars away, they couldn't keep the snub fighter-sized Transformers away, at which point they converge on shield emitters, bring down a grid, then have Trypticon (thank you Mightion), Scorpnok, Fort Max, and Metroplex do an all-Cybertronian Riverdance on the Death Star's surface.
DS1's deflectors were down. For obvious reasons, shielding something the size of a small moon is very energy-intensive, and unless you're facing a ship(s) that could do some serious damage, you do without. And, of course, there is Tarkin's flair for the dramatic and overconfidence in insisting that the DS attack Yavin and they not just send a fleet to siege/BDZ the planet's surface. What was active, of course, were ray shields over critical components and a magnetic field, presumably to deflect high-energy cosmic radiation away from sensitive components.
That said, if the shields aren't up, the transformers could make it to the surface, assuming, of course that they dodge the guns, tractor beam, etc. But bringing down a shield generator on such a huge station doesn't open up a hole; it just brings down the shield generator. Then what?
Under capitalism, man exploits man. Under communism, it's just the opposite. - John Kenneth Galbraith
As a result of this, the fight seems to come down to the deathstar vs. Unicron or Primus. While Unicron can "eat" a planet, we have no idea what this means, at a guess the event seems to be on the order of the gravitational binding energy for the planet (draw it into his mouth), rather them the four or five orders of magnitude above GBE the deathstar pulled (send chunks flying away at something like 0.1c). With numbers like that, this seems to be leaning to a deathstar victory. As for primus, yes he has big guns, but that really does not mean anything. Do we have firepower/yield numbers for him, or him doing something from which those can be calculated?
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Ja'Deth Issar Ka'bael fell asleep and read just about every paragraph.
Except, unlike Star Wars, there are reasonably common cloaking devices in TF.And if deflector shields couldn't keep the snub fighters in Star Wars away, they couldn't keep the snub fighter-sized Transformers away, at which point they converge on shield emitters, bring down a grid, then have Trypticon (thank you Mightion), Scorpnok, Fort Max, and Metroplex do an all-Cybertronian Riverdance on the Death Star's surface.
Except Metroplex can't fly. Trypticon can, but Metroplex can't.
(You think YOU pay a lot at the gas pump...)
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Mightion Defensor's fortune cookie read:
Except Metroplex can't fly. Trypticon can, but Metroplex can't.(You think YOU pay a lot at the gas pump...)
Really big slingshot.
sigpic courtesy of This Guy, original modified by me
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Tristan had this to say about Punky Brewster:
Keep in mind that the reason the first deathstar was open to snub fighter attack was that it was deemed useless. And I want to point out that without the thermal exhaust vent trick, it would have been. The second deathstar was stated to have no such vent, as well as having anti-fighter guns in addition to the anti capship turbolasers. Given this, and coupled with the transformers having no way to learn about that pesky exhaust port, the only was a snub-fighter type attack could end is with the transformers being picked off by DS mounted turbolasers or by one of the millions/billions of deathstar based tie fighters.As a result of this, the fight seems to come down to the deathstar vs. Unicron or Primus. While Unicron can "eat" a planet, we have no idea what this means, at a guess the event seems to be on the order of the gravitational binding energy for the planet (draw it into his mouth), rather them the four or five orders of magnitude above GBE the deathstar pulled (send chunks flying away at something like 0.1c). With numbers like that, this seems to be leaning to a deathstar victory. As for primus, yes he has big guns, but that really does not mean anything. Do we have firepower/yield numbers for him, or him doing something from which those can be calculated?
What, you come back just to own my ass with your big nerd stick?
nice to see you again, Lobster 
sigpic courtesy of This Guy, original modified by me
Or some of the ones that turned into smaller forms could smuggle themselves in. I'm pretty damned sure that once Megatron (the origional) was inside the Death Star, he wouldn't need any exhasut port to make things go boom.
If its just drifting through space, that would make it a ludicrously easy target
