Now if they could only apply some of that thinking to warrior talents 
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Leding:
Now if they could only apply some of that thinking to warrior talents
And warlocks.
Since, ya know, warriors and warlocks never got a fucking talent review.
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Mr. Parcelan had this to say about John Romero:
They didn't change anything.
I counted a halfdozen minor changes, but that's going from memory.
Subtlety: Camouflage, Sleight of Hand, Heightened Senses, Deadliness, and I think Prep has a longer range now.
Combat got Weapon Expertise and I think that's it, and I don't see a single change in Assassination.
Pretty underwhelming.
It's not something people hear about.
A) Vanish will remove effects that allow other players to keep seeing the rogue after he/she has vanished. For example, Mind Vision and Hunter's Mark.
B) Garrote, Rupture, and Eviscerate are having their damage upped.
C) Expose Armor is going to reduce armor by a percentage, rather than a set value.
Talent changes:
In Assassination:
Tier 2: Murder has been reduced by 1% in total effectiveness, but now applies to all finishing moves as well.
Tier 3: Improved Expose Armor now increases the total percentage that Expose Armor lowers armor by.
Tier 4: Vile Poisons now gives your poisons a chance to resist being dispelled. (40% max.) Improved Instant Poison has been changed to Improved Poisons, and increases chance to apply ALL poisons by 10%.
Tier 5: Improved Deadly Poison has been removed. Improved Kidney Shot has been changed. It no longer lowers the cooldown of Kidney Shot, but instead, increases damage of all sources of damage by 9% while Kidney Shot is on the target.
In Combat:
Tier 3: Improved Sprint no longer lowers the cooldown on Sprint, but instead gives Sprint a 50%/100% chance to remove movement impairing effects on the rogue. It's also now a 2 point talent, rather than 3. Improved Evasion has been changed to Endurance and not only increases the duration of Evasion, but now reduces the cooldown on Sprint.
Tier 6: Throwing Weapon Specialization has been changed to Weapon Expertise which at max rank increases Sword, Mace, and Dagger skills by 5.
In Subtlety:
Tier 1: Camouflage has been merged with Rapid Concealment.
Tier 2: Sleight of Hand, new talent, increases the threat reduction of Feint, and gives rogues crit resistance. Elusiveness has been changed to a 3 point talent.
Tier 3: Initiative is now a 3 point talent. Ghostly Strike has had it's damage reduced by 15%, but now costs 10 less energy. It is also no longer the requirement for the talent Setup. Improved Garrote no longer reduces damage.
Tier 4: Setup has been moved here from Tier 6.
Tier 5: Improved Distract has been removed. New talent added, Heightend Senses, which increases the rogue's stealth detection, and increases their chance to avoid being hit with spells and ranged attacks. Preparation is now the requirement for Premeditation. Hemmorage has been moved here from Tier 6.
Tier 6: New talent: Deadliness. Maxes at 5 ranks, increases your attack power by 2% per rank.
Tier 7: Premeditation is now instant, has had its range increased by 5 yards, costs no energy, and finally, can be used out of stealth. Willias fucked around with this message on 07-11-2006 at 03:22 PM.
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Mr. Parcelan's fortune cookie read:
Meh. I'm not impressed and the Rogues will still be pretty low on the totem pole.
Well, a buff to rogues would be a buff to alliance so it can't be thaaaat good. Since half the alliance are nelf rogues.
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Anakha had this to say about (_|_):
Well, a buff to rogues would be a buff to alliance so it can't be thaaaat good. Since half the alliance are nelf rogues.
No.
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Maradon!'s unholy Backstreet Boys obsession manifested in:
Every rogue I know that isn't on this message board is creaming their jeans over this review.
What's there to cream over? I don't see anything going on that will really help rogues besides saving them a few talent points.
Premeditation still sucks. Assassination tree hasn't changed.
Mages will still blink out of stuns and torch rogues. Warriors will still outdamage and tear Rogues apart (not a real big gripe). Hunters will still kite rogues, Priests will still kite Rogues, Warlocks will still kite Rogues...
Rogues have been phased out of the rock paper scissors formula.
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Maradon! had this to say about Duck Tales:
Every rogue I know that isn't on this message board is creaming their jeans over this review.
The talent review is good. There really isn't much left to fix in the talent trees for the rogue class. Blizz essentially took out everything that sucks (except for Vigor, wtf), and put in stuff that is desirable.
Most of the major problems that rogues face are from the way the class is designed and the way other classes are designed, something that a mere talent review can't fix.
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Willias attempted to be funny by writing:
The talent review is good. There really isn't much left to fix in the talent trees for the rogue class. Blizz essentially took out everything that sucks (except for Vigor, wtf), and put in stuff that is desirable.Most of the major problems that rogues face are from the way the class is designed and the way other classes are designed, something that a mere talent review can't fix.
And Blizzard says they won't be getting a revamp, so fuck you, Rogues.
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Maradon!'s account was hax0red to write:
Every rogue I know that isn't on this message board is creaming their jeans over this review.
??
It's a pretty crap review for raiding rogues, ok for PVP. Combat daggers is pretty much obsolete in 1.12 assuming they don't revise the trees any further. Considering they fixed up the mages pretty well I'm going to play the optimist and assume this isn't final.
But subtlety looks like it'd be fun in PVP. Although wtf, sleight of hand? What a pointless talent.
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Addy's fortune cookie read:
??It's a pretty crap review for raiding rogues, ok for PVP. Combat daggers is pretty much obsolete in 1.12 assuming they don't revise the trees any further. Considering they fixed up the mages pretty well I'm going to play the optimist and assume this isn't final.
But subtlety looks like it'd be fun in PVP. Although wtf, sleight of hand? What a pointless talent.
I play a Subtlety Rogue. Not to contradict your ideas (since you're most likely the master), but it's not that great in PvP, in my opinion. The most fun part is sapping and not coming out of stealth, really. Everything else lies mainly in Ambush and Backstabbing.
I can't kill a Mage or Warrior fast enough with those before they tear me apart. Plus, with the seventy-billion ways there are to remove stealth, it's just useless.
Like you.
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Mr. Parcelan had this to say about Duck Tales:
I play a Subtlety Rogue. Not to contradict your ideas (since you're most likely the master), but it's not that great in PvP, in my opinion. The most fun part is sapping and not coming out of stealth, really. Everything else lies mainly in Ambush and Backstabbing.I can't kill a Mage or Warrior fast enough with those before they tear me apart. Plus, with the seventy-billion ways there are to remove stealth, it's just useless.
Like you.
Omfg. 
Seal fate is probably still going to be the ideal PVP setup, but I just think subtlety would be fun, especially as a hemo rogue. Some people are flipping out over a seal fate/hemo build though, which doesn't really make sense to me... you pretty much need improved gouge for a good stunlock. But I guess it's something to try!
25 points in the Subt tree before you get access to Deadliness? Ugh, I didn't want to go that deep for Hemo, I'm not going that deep for Deadly.
20 points to get access to Hemo? It's still not worth that much.
The chance for Imp Kidney Shot is nice, but again you'd have to give up something else in your build to access it. IMO, Not worth it.
The changes for Improved Sprint are nice. However it's another case of "Give up 2 points of something else in your build". That's not nice.
Wouldn't Sleight of Hand be better suited to a Combat Rogue?
Heightened Senses... as if some people didn't complain enough about Humans to begin with. 
I'm far from happy with this "review". They've done 0 to actually improve my Rogue other than the supposed change that Blade Flurry is 100% hit. And I'll doubt that until I see it in action for myself.
After the kidney shot you can use a blind to restealth and start the cycle over again.
A neat trick with improved gouge is you can get out of combat and restealth. Although smart opponents might not let you depending on their class.
RIG--wait, why would you have cold blood as a combat rogue? Pick up Adrenaline Rush!! I know combat sword rogues are looking at dropping improved eviscerate for weapon expertise.
Improved Kidney Shot actually works with seal fate pretty well, before you had to pick up kind of meh talents for a 31/8/12 build. Now you can pick one up that is pretty hot.
Sleight of Hand is a joke because 1.) Yes, it's in subtlety tree... and a subtlety rogue is going to have zero issues with aggro and 2.) Most encounters just don't require feint period, so why waste points into that? And if you do need to use feint, it's like once or twice.
I'd be much happier with this review if they condense a couple of skills. Maybe make lethality a 3 point talent instead, or opportunity. Or maybe push opportunity to tier 1 subtlety. Stick weapon expertise in tier 3 or 4 instead? =\ I don't know. Addy fucked around with this message on 07-12-2006 at 12:00 AM.
I still like Jump-Gouge-Vanish when I'm trying to evade some asshole chasing me. Really pisses them off when I don't run but turn around and Cheap Shot, SS, Kidney their ass.
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Verily, Random Insanity Generator doth proclaim:
Since when does Gouge drop you from combat? It stops attack, but doesn't remove you from combat.I still like Jump-Gouge-Vanish when I'm trying to evade some asshole chasing me. Really pisses them off when I don't run but turn around and Cheap Shot, SS, Kidney their ass.
Because you drop out of combat after like 5-6 seconds in PVP.
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Random Insanity Generator had this to say about (_|_):
Hrm... I'm usually never alive long enough or running like hell too fast to notice.
Gouge, start moving away, restealth before they can get you back in combat.
I played a rogue for like 5 minutes and I could do it no problem.
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Addy said this about your mom:
Or maybe push opportunity to tier 1 subtlety.
you're a witch! Yuri fucked around with this message on 07-13-2006 at 09:03 PM.
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*yaaaaaawn* Sorry, Taeldian, I drifted off while you were saying:
Gouge, start moving away, restealth before they can get you back in combat.I played a rogue for like 5 minutes and I could do it no problem.
That's assuming that you spent those 5 minutes in PVP.
I spent maybe 3 minutes in actual PVP that wasn't "guard flag".
PvP sucks.
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The logic train ran off the tracks when Vallo said:
I like the new changes, subtlety is a pretty cool tree now. There's some stuff I'd like to see that's completely ignored still, but I'm mostly a PVE Rogue so as far as I'm concerned it's looking pretty nifty so far.
The items they've added to Assassination and Combat are almost useless as you have to give up points in something to pick them up. None of them have been worth it so far.
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This insanity brought to you by Random Insanity Generator:
The items they've added to Assassination and Combat are almost useless as you have to give up points in something to pick them up. None of them have been worth it so far.
I don't even mean the talents, those are basically only any good for Hemo builds and PVP. Hemo builds are actually a viable thing that doesn't suck now, though.
Some of the other changes are pretty nifty though, and PVE is where Rogues tear faces off anyway. Me being mainly PVE, I didn't need but a few tweaks.
To Combat Daggers (with imp kick and improved sprint)
Imo combat swords is now obselete pve and pvp wise compared to combat daggers. The damage youll put out with combat daggers destroys combat swords, also combat daggers provides huge huge huge burst damage.
As far as pure pvp potency goes hemo and cold blood will be the build to choose. Double and shorten your cooldowns. Give them a full expose and go to town on them, use cold blood for burst damage after the expose for a 2k damage that catches most people offguard. Setup is very valuable too, with evasion and fighting warriors, druids, rogues, hunters you can crank out a lot of combo points. Improved kidney is also very nice, at least compared to the old improved kidney which was just a 4 second shorter cd on the skill. Explaining how good a hemo build is in pvp isnt easy. Stun locks and energy management is what its all about. Its definitely the advanced build that in the right hands can best every class out there.
-On a side note Hemorrhage is the only instant attack left that isnt normalized. Meaning the higher delay your main hand weapon has, the harder it hits.
I stopped by ok, saw a thread i could talk on.
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Verily, Xider doth proclaim:
Hemo/ Seal Fate
A quick question here. Why go Hemo/Seal Fate if you aren't going to pick up Seal Fate?
Wouldn't this work much better?
Endurance is chosen because I find myself using evasion more nowadays, and a 2.5 minute cooldown is hot (3 piece dd + talent). Improved sprint chosen just because I wanted a "fun" talent, and I may be getting back into PVP so it's good to have.
Serrated Blades probably isn't as good as it seems to me, but I'd think 300 armor I'd never have to worry about (especially in PvP) would definately be a good thing.
