quote:
The Gabe uttereth unto the unruly masses:
Z3LD4? M0R3 L1k3 C3LD4!Wed, March 19 2003 - 5:00 PM
by: GabeWe did a comic about it already but I think it's funny that I go for months without playing my Gamecube and then when I DO play it the game I play is amazing. From Mario Sunshine to Metroid to Zelda these are absolutely stellar titles. Zelda in particular stands out as one of the most polished gaming experiences I've ever had. Let the kids argue in their forums about its "new look" if they want to. They think it looks stupid or corny or whatever and that is to be expected. The fact is, most people don't appreciate art and that is what Zelda is. A group of children giggling in front of a nude painting doesn't mean it's a terrible painting. They simply are not sophisticated enough to appreciate it. It is the same with Zelda. Don't let the idiots dissuade you from picking up this game and enjoying it for what it is, an unparalleled and inspired work of interactive art.
-Gabe out
i just thought that the Flame tag would be most appropriate. although the Maradon tag would make more sense.
Though I suppose it could be considered "art", in the same sense that a ripping good episode of Tom and Jerry is art.
If a game doesn't look decent to start with, it can have the best plot/mechanics/control/whatever and it's not going to get the play it deserves because first impression it makes (via screenshots/live demos/package) sucks monster ass.
The only difference is I still had my self respect. I'm sure Barney can be quite entertaining if you bring yourself to watch it, but I'd never know 
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Gabe had this to say about (_|_):
an unparalleled and inspired work of interactive art
I don't know much about art, but I know what I like.
And that ain't it.
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Check out the big brain on Delphi Aegis!
The tunnel vision in this thread is fucking AMAZING.
Oh yeah... and you're just mister fuckin perfect when it comes to shit like this aren't you?
I stated simple fact. The reason I'll probably never play it is because the graphics look like ass IMO. The effects look nice from what I've seen, but all the still shots just make me wanna retch. And I'm not the only one on this. Nintendo is taking a known good thing and systamatically killing it with stupidity.
I just don't happen to find it appealing. I'm not saying the game is bad or anything. I'm simply saying, the relationship between the game and I is one of "Let's not get together".
I've argued against the game looking like shit.
What do I base my arguments on?
Screenshots, in-game movies, and the demo I played at Software Etc.
There aren't that many games out there where the graphics in one are in every way, shape, and form, superior to those of its sequel. There is not one single aspect of the graphics in Zelda 64 that is not greater than Wind Waker. Nintendo not only failed to take any steps forwards with this new title in terms of the graphical abilities they've access too... they took steps backwards and produces a game that may very well play easily, be a lot of fun, and have a good plot, but looks absolutely laughably ridiculous.
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Maradon XP had this to say about Knight Rider:
I played the demo in EB for about twenty minutes, and I've gotta say it's hard to enjoy a game when you're chuckling at it's pathetic attempts to make bosses look scary and environments realistic.
That may work if they even tried to do that. 
Thats also concdering Zelda's bosses have never tried to be scary or ominious. The very first Zelda Gannon was a big blue pig.
And even in TOoT you fought the gooffiest enemies around. The only semi ominous scary enemy was Gannondorf. ZeldaII, same deal. Link to the Past, yep the same.
I got to play it for a good couple hours, I found it really fun. Nothing OMGZ THIS IS STELLAR crap, but it was a lot of fun and I enjoyed the depth of it. I also never found the graphical style bad, except for link, I don't particular care for his revamp, but the rest of the game looks pretty damn good to me.
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Random Insanity Generator had this to say about Tron:
Oh yeah... and you're just mister fuckin perfect when it comes to shit like this aren't you?
The fuck are you getting at, asshat?
You don't wanna play a game because it looks bad, okay. I'll happily enjoy my copy of Zelda while you're off spouting rants at how horrible it looks.
Graphics don't make a fucking game. What about all the pac man addicts? Or Space invaders? Whoah, blocky. If they released that today, that'd be horrible! 
Whatever.
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Iron Parcelan attempted to be funny by writing:
Yo, how'd you guys turn this into a flamewar?
You underestimate their geekiness.
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Nicole had this to say about Duck Tales:
You underestimate their geekiness.
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Delphi Aegis had this to say about Pirotess:
What about all the pac man addicts? Or Space invaders? Whoah, blocky. If they released that today, that'd be horrible!
Careful, Delphi. You're overstepping your point to make it.
Graphics DO matter in games. If you introduced Pac Man or Space Invaders into the market for the first time with the graphics they had on the Atari 2600, no one would buy them, no matter how much fun they were.
Race games are another example. There's very little new that you can do to make a race game more fun, aside from making the graphics better and more realistic. If you gave people the original Pole Position game, it wouldn't sell. I don't think games like the Metal Gear Solid games would have been as much fun if they'd had the graphics used in the very first Metal Gear games on the old NES.
So be careful not to downplay the value of graphics.
That having been said, the key to the Zelda games has always been good graphics for the age combined with fantastic game play. The first Zelda game used graphics akin to 8-Bit Theater. The second updated it a bit. Third updated more. You get along to games like Ocarina of Time and the like and the graphics are pretty good, plus you get fantastic game play. The fates are aligned and everyone is happy and you have a wildly successful game.
The problem with Wind Waker is that they opted to go an unsatisfying route with graphics. And that IS important. Addictive gameplay won't save a game with crappy graphics. Name loyalty won't. Oh sure people will eventually pick up the game, but they won't be creaming their jeans to be the first ones to pick it up
Now I won't go so far as to say Wind Waker's graphics make my eyes bleed, and I won't make any more cracks that Link looks like a South Park character like I have in the past, because in the coming weeks I expect to hear reports on gameplay. A significant enough people are dissatisfied with how the game looks to say that they didn't satisfy the anticipation of all the fans as far as graphics go.
Only time will tell whether or not gameplay will win out.
sigpic courtesy of This Guy, original modified by me
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Delphi Aegis had this to say about John Romero:
Graphics don't make a fucking game. What about all the pac man addicts? Or Space invaders? Whoah, blocky. If they released that today, that'd be horrible!Whatever.
That's all fine and good, but I don't think the point is being made properly. The graphics of the new Zelda are actually QUITE GOOD...
The true problem is that alot of people, myself included, think the ART STYLE looks like crap. And face it, games are a visual media. If the art style looks like crap, it's going to ruin the feel of the game for those who feel that way.
I agree with the Barney analogy.
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Ja'Deth Issar Ka'bael had this to say about Jimmy Carter:
but they won't be creaming their jeans to be the first ones to pick it up
I already have multiple times in anticipation of the game. 
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Falaanla Marr Model 2000 was programmed to say:
I already have multiple times in anticipation of the game.
Yeah but you're special. 
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Falaanla Marr wrote this then went back to looking for porn:
I already have multiple times in anticipation of the game.
Weirdness Alert level: ORANGE
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There was much rejoicing when Delphi Aegis said this:
The fuck are you getting at, asshat?You don't wanna play a game because it looks bad, okay. I'll happily enjoy my copy of Zelda while you're off spouting rants at how horrible it looks.
Graphics don't make a fucking game. What about all the pac man addicts? Or Space invaders? Whoah, blocky. If they released that today, that'd be horrible!
I'm getting at the fact that you're damn near a rabid fanboi over this.
And can you please show me where in the past I've ranted about how shitty this game looks? I've SPECIFICALLY avoided these threads when I could because of fanbois like you and the fact that I had hoped this would have been a passing fad in the game series. Turns out I was wrong and this is how it's gonna be. *shrug* Guess I'll have to stick with the zelda games on SNES and prior.
As for the rest of the points, I think Deth smacked you around good enough with the truth so I don't need to keep going.
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Random Insanity Generator's fortune cookie read:
you're damn near a rabid fanboi over this
Near? 
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Tier thought about the meaning of life:
Near?
I was trying to be nice.
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Iron Parcelan thought this was the Ricky Martin Fan Club Forum and wrote:
Weirdness Alert level: ORANGE
This made me laff out loud... almost as loud as Delphi's pathetic attempt at arguing did.
The other contains what appears to be great gameplay, the story looks questionable but I'm going to give it a try, and graphics that make me laugh. Not in the good way.
I think that for 40 bucks, I got my moneys worth with the first game I got (Ocarina). Had they not packaged a GC version of Ocarina with it... I would have laughed if anyone told me to buy it.
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Zephyer had this to say about dark elf butts:
Alright, alright, calm down, chuckleheads.That's all fine and good, but I don't think the point is being made properly. The graphics of the new Zelda are actually QUITE GOOD...
The true problem is that alot of people, myself included, think the ART STYLE looks like crap. And face it, games are a visual media. If the art style looks like crap, it's going to ruin the feel of the game for those who feel that way.
I agree with the Barney analogy.
Yeah... I'm gonna go cancel my gemstoneIII account. The graphics suck ass.
They are irrelevant. The simple fact is that if that game were released brand new this week, they would not succeed. Sure, you may still play legacy games, but that's not the point. Graphics weren't a huge worry a few years ago, at least not nearly as much as they are now.
Had they released the new Zelda on the N64 or something, it probably wouldn't have sparked such controversy. However, as far as many people as concerned, Nintendo is WASTING the potential of the Gamecube with this pathetic artistic style.
Pac-Man was fine for it's time, there just weren't better graphics possible, but they made do with what they had
My main issue is with Zelda, is that they had the ability to make him look good (Like he is supposed to) and instead just made him a 4 year old girl
Yeah, the demo at EB was downright painful
"Oh, nice background... really great quality there, I am impressed. And there is the 4 year girl I am controlling through this great environment"
I think the other issue is, when you play a game the character should fit the game...
Max Payne, Metal Gear Solid, GTA:VC etc. The character fits the setting. You look at Snake and go "Yeah, he is a guy that I would want saving the world"
But you look at 'new' link and go "What in the hell? Shouldn't he/she/it be in preschool or something?"
They had link done properly with N64 and Soul Caliber 2... but they then decided to make the deformed ass version in the GC game. It's not like they didn't have an existing template already, they could have done him like that and it would be fine
Instead they... well, we all know
If the game is fun, all the more power to it, but that doesn't change the fact Link does not fit the game at all.
I mean, if... say... Starcraft : Ghost stared a 7 year old boy with psychic powers... yes, I would be pretty pissed off too. it is just insulting to the entire freaking lisence
This is my opinion, and may not fit the views of anyone overlly addicted to Zelda
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Everyone wondered WTF when Kermitov wrote:
Yeah... I'm gonna go cancel my gemstoneIII account. The graphics suck ass.
Wow...you managed to ENTIRELY miss my point! Let me shake your hand, that was amazing!
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We were all impressed when Zephyer wrote:
Wow...you managed to ENTIRELY miss my point! Let me shake your hand, that was amazing!
actually it was a joke and wasn't meant to make a point at all so no worries
[ 03-20-2003: Message edited by: Kegwen ]
So I guess that just means I'm not a real gamer. I can't play a new game that has shitty graphics or graphics I don't like. It just completely ruins the feel for me.
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Kegwen got all f'ed up on Angel Dust and wrote:
in fact, i'll just not say that
hehe, too late I already saw it
I misinterpreted his, he misinterpreted mine... it was a mutual thing and we all came away better for it I think (har har). I rarely post in political threads and after that experience I don't plan to post in any more unless it's to make a joke.
as far as this one... I like the new art style a lot, it's different and it's not the first time Link has looked cartoonish, but I'm not picky. Some of us put emphasis on gameplay, some of us on graphics, some of us on how hot the main character is . I for one am looking forward to getting my preorder. And now that I have Zelda 64 on Gcube I can get rid of my N64
hooray for cabinet space!
I don't know if something's wrong with me, but I actually kinda like the look of Wind Waker, and the movie on the OoT bonus disk dropped my jaw almost as much as the F-Zero one did.
I played the demo briefly in TRU a few weeks ago, and I have to say I was impressed seeing it in action. I had to admit I had my doubts as well in the beginning, but now I say I like it.
And I should have my GBA SP by then, to have Tingle running on the Tingle Tuner
It's like George Lucas said, when confronting people who complained about Episode I - how many poeple, he asked, had seen it only once? Hard to think no onle liked your product when you've got those huge sacks of money to count.
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So quoth Mightion Defensor:
For the record, Wind Waker has racked up over 560,000 presales. One of them mine. I just wish I had more time to play OoT before it gets here.
See Khyron's post.
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Mightion Defensor's account was hax0red to write:
It's like George Lucas said, when confronting people who complained about Episode I - how many poeple, he asked, had seen it only once? Hard to think no onle liked your product when you've got those huge sacks of money to count.
Who cares if people liked your product if you have sacks of money to count?
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Kermitov had this to say about dark elf butts:
Some of us put emphasis on gameplay, some of us on graphics, some of us on how hot the main character is.
I put the emphasis on the balance of the two. You can have excellent graphics and a very shitty game, and I won't buy it. However, if you're going to use a high-end system, then don't abuse the privelage like Nintendo did with Wind Waker.
[DISCLAIMER: MY OPINION]
