edit: Don't think normal dnd, think of a one-shot munchkin game for "normal" players.
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History 'o cheese:
Kab'Dah is a half-dragon troll. His ravenous appetite earned him the nickname of "the devourerer." Driven by an insane hunger to hunt, he forced himself to peruse a career as a monk until his madness got the best of him. He has now become a soul drinker, which only served to expand and pervert his pallet.
As a half dragon, he can breathe fire to assist your golems (though only once a day). As a large half dragon, he can fly. As a troll, his regeneration would make him a relatively good front line fighter, especially seeing how he gets d12 hit dice for his giant levels for being a half dragon. Flyby attack and a reach of 10 would let him do some decent damage to land based medium sized opponents. I suppose he could be the minion killer.
Levels:
Half Dragon (+3)
Troll: (+5)
Giant: (+6) (From what I gather, I'm required to take 6 levels in giant before anything else because trolls have 6 hit dice)
That's 14 levels, giving me 6 to play around with to become ECL 20.
If I take 6 levels in monk, I'll get an extra unarmed attack. If I take 5 in monk and 1 in Soul Eater, I can do negative levels when I attack, though a DC isn't listed. Thoughts? Would the soul eater level even be worth it?
DM,
How does improved natural attack work with monk levels? You said I can take the feat up to three times?
What about the monk's belt? I heard it changed in 3.5.
As a monk, can I cast magic weapons on my claws? What about +1 keen vorpral?
How much gold do we have to start with again?
For equipment right now I'm looking at some stat boosters, a monk's belt, ring of major acid resitance, and a portable hole to hold his... snacks. Something that will let him diminson door/teleport would be nice too, as would something triggred to cast reserrection should he die to go with the whole troll theme.
Responce about neg levels:
"There is no DC. If the target isn't immune to negative levels or
negative energy, they lose a level when hit."
also, people say 8ecl is high.
cheese me up guys. the dm's rule on cheese is pretty much "well, would you want a monster to have it?" it's a one-shot game, so who cares! the dm is going to keep our chacters afterwards, but these things are so powerful there's no way we'd ever worry about them in a "real" game diadem fucked around with this message on 11-04-2005 at 09:01 PM.
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Kab'Dah is a half-dragon troll.
It's not something people hear about.
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This one time, at Sean camp:
Sorry, I stopped right here.
deal with it and bring out your inner munchkin. i sleep now. diadem fucked around with this message on 11-04-2005 at 08:59 PM.
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We are playing evil lvl 20 characters fighting the last ruminants of a kingdom our forces destroyed.
Really, now. . .how much trouble do you expect fighting cows? 
--Satan, quoted by John Milton
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Bloodsage spewed forth this undeniable truth:
Really, now. . .how much trouble do you expect fighting cows?
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Bloodsage had this to say about John Romero:
Really, now. . .how much trouble do you expect fighting cows?
Destroying the kingdom opened a portal to the secret cow level.
Seriously though... I think all those racial levels are abit much.
I offer this advice as the DM of some of the most overpowered games ever. I've had players generate characters using the 5d6 reroll 1s and 2s method.
The only time templates are really really good is when the game is extremely low stats. If he's making you roll 3d6, a template like half dragon might be worth it - especially for only ECL 4. But you've got way, way too many templates. Your BAB is going to be so low.
Try to limit yourself to 6-8 levels of 'monster', and keep the rest class levels.
Edit: Well, the most overpowered games around here. I'm sure somewhere, there's someone who has a level 75 epic character who thinks my games are a joke. Zaeron fucked around with this message on 11-04-2005 at 11:59 PM.
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From the book of Azymyth, chapter 3, verse 16:
The 'need' for the Giant Template sounds like an excuse to make you get less class levels, really. If trolls start out with 6d6 hitpoints base, they start out 6d6 base. Hit dice != higher ECL all the time.
The way it works is you need to take the 'levels' of troll. If you play a Troll, they have X hit dice, and Y ECL. Let's call it 6 and 5, to be random. You need six levels of troll, then you have five invisible levels with no benefit. For a total character level of 11.
quote:
Malkav had this to say about John Romero:
I recomend a Human Fighter 5, Weapon Master 7, Disciple of Dispater 8, it is a critical hit oriented build using one or more scimitars you can achieve a critical threat range of 7-20 with a number of additional abilities to aid in butchering things including 3/day your crit can do x3 insted of x2, and con/day gaining +3 or +6 to hit for a round (two separate abilities, you can't stack them) additionally the speel like abilities of Rusting Grasp, Summon Eyrines, and Stoneskin all once per day.
7-20? Is that in 3.0 or 3.5?
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Malkav was naked while typing this:
I researched it in 3.0 don't know if the Disciple of Dispater exists in 3.5 that is where 6 of the crit range point come from, they get an ability that triples the crit range of the steel or iron weapon you are using, it doesn't stack with keen but does stack with improved critical feat, and I assume from that the ki critical feat from weapons master.
Yeah. In 3.5 they fixed a lot of the crit stacking - keen, imp. critical and such not stacking. Best I've ever seen is a 15 or 16 crit, and I forget how he did that.
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Zaeron had this to say about pies:
Yeah. In 3.5 they fixed a lot of the crit stacking - keen, imp. critical and such not stacking. Best I've ever seen is a 15 or 16 crit, and I forget how he did that.
You could hit fifteen with a Scimitar.
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Alaan wrote this stupid crap:
You could hit fifteen with a Scimitar.
If I understand how the change works then with the Book of Vile Darkness PC I mentioned you could still hit 12 because it is one effector that triples crit range.
It's not something people hear about.
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ACES! Another post by Mortious:
Your dragon parent must have been seriously drunk/stoned.
haha... and then some...
There's enough feedback for me to realise the troll may not have been the wisest idea.... (ecl, mainly) so i'll take a look at my other options
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Vallo had this to say about Reading Rainbow:
Level 12 Kobold Psion...whatever else you get is unimportant because you can defeat the entire Greek pantheon as a level 12 Kobold Psion.
To specify...
Disclaimer: A wizard can pull this off at level 5, 7 levels earlier than the original build. I chose Egoist because psions are cooler than wizards. Psionics isn't what makes this character broken. Serpent Kingdoms makes this character broken.
Here is the example build I promised over on this thread: Incentive to Play a Kobold
It showcases the Manipulate Form ability being abused like crazy, and breaks all CO records currently held. The Manipulate Form ability is explained as much as it can be without violating the CoC in the Incentive thread.
Behold Pun-pun, the mighty kobold.
Pun-pun, male Kobold Egoist 12
1. Psicrystal Affinity, Overchannel
2.
3. Earth Sense
4.
5. Psionic Body
6. Earth Power
7.
8.
9. Metamorphic Transfer
10. Expanded Knowledge (Schism)
11.
12. Extend Power
Pun-pun uses Metamorphosis and Overchannel to transform into a Sarruhk (Serpent Kingdoms). He shares Metamorphosis with his psicrystal so that it transforms into a snake (tiny viper). Using Metamorphic Transfer, Pun-pun uses the Sarruhk's supernatural ability, Manipulate Form, to give his psicrystal the Manipulate Form ability (since the psicrystal is now a snake, it qualifies as a Scaled One).
Pun-pun dismisses his Sarruhk form, and orders the psicrystal to grant him the Manipulate Form ability, using Manipulate Form of course. Since Pun-pun is a pathetic Kobold, he qualifies as a Scaled One. Pun-pun now has the strongest ability in the game.
First things first... boosting ability scores:
In one day, Pun-pun can boost his strength to about 20,000. He does this by changing size using Manipulate Form. Each time Pun-pun grows to Colossal, he gains a +36 size bonus to strength. He then increases his psicrystal's strength score to match his own. Pun-pun then reverts to normal size, and increases his psicrystal's size to Colossal. His psicrystal's already impressive strength increases due to the size increase, and it transfers this new, higher strength score to Pun-pun. The transfers to strength are permanent, but they can continue doing it. Each time, the Strength increases by +36. Within a day, Pun-pun can have a strength score hovering around 20,000 (assuming no sleep).
*In order for this to work, Pun-pun's psicrystal would have to be a Scaled One each time it was affected by or it used Manipulate Form. This can be handled one of two ways. The first way is to consider that once the psicrystal is altered using Manipulate Form, it is considered a Scaled One. This isn't so much backed by the books to my knowledge, so I opt'ed for the second method. Which is to use Bestow Power/Schism cheese for crazy power points to continue manifesting Extended Metamorphosis on the psicrystal.
So, Pun-pun's strength is 20,010 (for a nice, even modifier) after a little more than a day. Now to increase the other scores. Within the next day, Pun-pun will have all of his other ability scores matching his strength.
First, Pun-pun uses Manipulate Form to grant himself the Bellflower Tattoo of the Tattooed Monk. The Bellflower Tattoo allows Pun-pun to add his Charisma modifier as an enhancement bonus to any of his ability scores. Then Pun-pun grants himself the Void Release ability of the Void Disciple. Void Release allows him to use his highest ability score modifier in place of a lower one. See where this is going? Pun-pun uses Bellflower, but instead of adding his Charisma bonus as an enhancement bonus to an ability score, he adds his strength bonus. Since his strength modifier is now +10,000 (after a day's worth of tedious sizing and re-sizing), he can grant any of his ability scores a +10,000 enhancement bonus. And when he does, he permanently increases his familiar's corresponding score to match it. So, let's say he adds +10,000 to Charisma. The psicrystal now has a charisma of 10,010, permanently. After Pun-pun dismisses the effects of the Bellflower tattoo, his psicrystal permanently increases Pun-pun's charisma to 10,010. Pun-pun uses the Bellflower tattoo again, to Charisma, and increases his psicrystal's Charisma by another 10,000 (using strength instead of charisma again of course). The Psicrystal's charisma is now 20,010, and it increases Pun-pun's charisma to match it. Repeat this process with each other ability score.
*Note, when under the effects of Metamorphosis, the psicrystal does have a Constitution score. So this can be done for constitution as well.
The result after a couple of days is:
Strength: 20,010 (+10,000)
Dexterity: 20,010 (+10,000)
Constitution: 20,010 (+10,000)
Intelligence: 20,010 (+10,000)
Wisdom: 20,010 (+10,000)
Charisma: 20,010 (+10,000)
Yowza!
Alright, so Pun-pun and his psicrystal are stronger, more agile, tougher, smarter, wiser, and more charismatic than any other being in the planes. But wait, there is more.
According to the Monster Manual, all Special Attacks and Qualities are either Extraordinary, Spell-like, or Supernatural abilities. Manipulate Form can grant any of these. As such, Pun-pun is assumed to have any ability that is beneficial to him or makes him more threatening as an opponent. Just to list a few:
- The ability to cast spells as a 29th level Cleric and a 38th level Sorcerer and as a 20th level caster of any other casting class (such as Warmage or Druid).
- The ability to ignore spells that check against Spell Resistance, as well as ignoring any damage from weapons, or being immune to death effects/mind-affecting effects/etc...
- All spells as spell-like abilities at-will and all powers as psi-like abilities at-will.
Also, Feats are extraordinary abilities, meaning Pun-pun can have any feat he wants. So, Pun-pun is assumed to have any feat he needs, or all of them.
Further, he has all class/prestige class abilities available. For instance:
- Pun-pun can add Strength, Dexterity, Intelligence, Wisdom, and Charisma to his damage rolls with an Elven Courtblade (which he has the proficiency for since he has every feat).
- Pun-pun has Skill Mastery in every skill.
- Pun-pun has Divine Grace, as well as Improved Evasion and Improved Mettle.
- Favored Enemy (all)
Basically, Pun-pun is assumed to have any ability that helps defend against attacks or makes him immune to attacks, as well as any ability that aids him in combat, with casting, and with skill checks. With all this at hand, Pun-pun is stronger than any other build out there.
Vallo fucked around with this message on 11-06-2005 at 09:03 PM.
Edit: There's a stat cap of...75?...according to the books, but the character is ungodly amazing regardless of stats and I don't think most DM's even enforce, or even know of, a stat cap because it just doesn't get reached.
It's not something people hear about.
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Sean wrote this then went back to looking for porn:
That was the stupidest thing I've ever read. I actually feel dumber having read it.
Not my fault there is a character so leet that by level 12 (Or technically, by 5) it can go into an infinite loop in every category. He asked for optimization, I gave it to him. Find something to beat it, if you'd like to try.
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Vallo enlisted the help of an infinite number of monkeys to write:
Find something to beat it, if you'd like to try.
A dungeon master.
It's not something people hear about.
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Nobody really understood why Sean wrote:
A dungeon master.
Or, hell, a good slap to the face by another player...
And we all know how I feel about math.
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Sean thought about the meaning of life:
A dungeon master.
Actually...that guy can get the class skills from the class Self-Aware Player Character (Bride of the Portable Hole book) which is pretty much a joke prestige class made to render the DM ineffective. Yes, I did just say straight up it's a joke class but if you're able to use all the resources to make that guy already, that doesn't really matter since it is published in an actual D20-licensed book.
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This is why I dislike multiclassing and psions in general
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Disclaimer: A wizard can pull this off at level 5, 7 levels earlier than the original build. I chose Egoist because psions are cooler than wizards. Psionics isn't what makes this character broken. Serpent Kingdoms makes this character broken.
Edit: I'll post the details of the prestige class I mentioned later when I can get to my other computer. Vallo fucked around with this message on 11-06-2005 at 10:10 PM.
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Vallo obviously shouldn't have said:
Actually...that guy can get the class skills from the class Self-Aware Player Character (Bride of the Portable Hole book) which is pretty much a joke prestige class made to render the DM ineffective.
You're missing the point.
It's not something people hear about.
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Sean had this to say about Captain Planet:
You're missing the point.
Any half-sane DM would never allow any of it to even begin to go down, but if for some insane reason they did then not even they could kill it within the boundaries of the game. They could, however, punch the player and shred the character sheet.
Your point was that my original post was "The stupidest thing you've ever read." As for why, I don't know. I assume cus it would never be allowed, but if a Half-dragon Troll-Giant is in the game, psionics is likely available too and...well, kobolds suck too much to be restricted generally unless only normal, base races are being allowed.
If your point was that I'm a geek or something, no shit Sherlock so is pretty much every member of EC. What's your next big mystery? And also, you would suck really bad at relaying your point.
If your point is that it doesn't work...then all I can say is yes it does, test it yourself.
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There was much rejoicing when Vallo said this:
Any half-sane DM would never allow any of it to even begin to go down, but if for some insane reason they did then not even they could kill it within the boundaries of the game. They could, however, punch the player and shred the character sheet.If your point is that it doesn't work...then all I can say is yes it does, test it yourself.
Here you almost make my point for me;
Nothing of this sort will ever happen in a situation where it is of any consequence. And god forbid it did, the DM is still able to put a stop to it. Because there are no boundaries of the game. That's the whole principal behind 'the game'.
The DM is the be-all-end-all of rules and regulations, not an obscure sourcebook that was rushed out the door to make WotC a few bucks.
It's not something people hear about.
Bonuses from the same source do not stack.
kthxbye Densetsu fucked around with this message on 11-06-2005 at 10:49 PM.
quote:
Densetsu painfully thought these words up:
Hey Vallo. There's one thing missing from your little spooge-fest that renders it completely ineffective.Bonuses from the same source do not stack.
kthxbye
It's not from the same source.
Your Psicrystal receives your base score of, say 17. Not a bonus, it's new base score is 17. You turn back to normal, give yourself the score of 17, increase size from medium to large. Give psicrystal your new strength score as it's base. You return to normal, increase psicrystal size, make it's new strength score your base score.
Step 1: Decrease Psi Crystal to Fine
Step 2: Have Psi Crystal Increase your size to Collossal
Step 3: Grant Psi Crystal your current Stength Score
Step 4: Grant Psi Crystal your current Constitution Score (since it's a viper or whatever it has one)
Step 5: Have Psi Crystal grant you its current Dexterity Score
Step 6: Increase Psi Crystal to Collossal
Step 7: Have Psi Crystal Decrease you to Fine
Step 8: Have Psi Crystal grant you its current Strength Score
Step 9: Have Psi Crystal grant you its current Constitution Score
Step 10: Grant Psi Crystal your current Dexterity Score
Repeat as desired, this'll give you the loop for physical ability scores.
Edit: Though really you only need to do that for strength. Then, as I explained in the original post, you use the Bellflower Tattoo ability and the Void Release ability to increase your other scores to tremendous heights, using Manipulate Form to seal the deal. So...
Your Strength is 20,010. You use Bellflower to add your Charisma modifier as a bonus to your Intelligence. But instead of adding your Charisma modifier, you use Void Release to instead add your Strength bonus (+10,000) to your Intelligence. Your Intelligence is now 10,000. You increase your psicrystal's Intelligence to match your own. Dismiss the Bellflower effect. Your psicrystal increases your Intelligence to match his (which is 10,000) using Manipulate Form. Repeat with all abilities, as many times as you want. Vallo fucked around with this message on 11-06-2005 at 10:57 PM.
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Vallo stopped beating up furries long enough to write:
It's not from the same source.
Your Psicrystal receives your base score of, say 17. Not a bonus, it's new base score is 17. You turn back to normal, give yourself the score of 17, increase size from medium to large. Give psicrystal your new strength score as it's base. You return to normal, increase psicrystal size, make it's new strength score your base score.
Step 1: Decrease Psi Crystal to Fine
Step 2: Have Psi Crystal Increase your size to Collossal
Step 3: Grant Psi Crystal your current Stength Score
Step 4: Grant Psi Crystal your current Constitution Score (since it's a viper or whatever it has one)
Step 5: Have Psi Crystal grant you its current Dexterity Score
Step 6: Increase Psi Crystal to Collossal
Step 7: Have Psi Crystal Decrease you to Fine
Step 8: Have Psi Crystal grant you its current Strength Score
Step 9: Have Psi Crystal grant you its current Constitution Score
Step 10: Grant Psi Crystal your current Dexterity Score
Repeat as desired, this'll give you the loop for physical ability scores.
Even if that list of bullshit somehow circumvents size bonuses not stacking with each other, you still rely on some magical ability to make your psicrystal able to have anything you have, and vice-cersa. Share Powers does not allow this. Not to mention that Metamorphic Transfer still only wllows you to use a supernatural ability only while metamorphed into that form.
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Vallo had this to say about Jimmy Carter:
render the DM ineffective..
The comment Fae quoted will be explained when I can access my other computer.
This thread is gonna get ignored for a bit though, cus I'm raiding in WoW. I'll pick it back up later.
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How.... Vallo.... uughhhhhh:
The size bonus is only ever on once at a time.The comment Fae quoted will be explained when I can access my other computer.
This thread is gonna get ignored for a bit though, cus I'm raiding in WoW. I'll pick it back up later.
I'm pretty sure you completely misread something when you were putting this char together. D&D rules don't allow such looping. If you shrink you lose the size bonus because you are no longer that size.
