I mean, I've been putting up with WoW's frequent crashes on the Icecrown server pretty well the last few days. Had to do the same quest 3 times in one night due to being suddenly booted from the server to log on only to find the items are gone and the quest is still marked uncomplete.
Last night's gaming ended with a serverwide message saying: Server shutdown in 15 minutes. I was booted off the server not 30 seconds later.
I'm mostly posting this out of boredom and frustration; (Oh joy, only 47 minutes left, no wait...52, keeps fluxuating) but I've really enjoyed WoW the last few weeks. Can someone explain why they're using this method to log people on? Are they planning to change it at all?
Not even UO or EQ stopped selling their games, despite their horrible launches. Go go Blizzard for not listening to those who complained in beta or being prepared at all for launch.Seriously though, that's all Blizzard has done so far or has told players. They keep saying their looking into fixes, but have never released any info about it nor have they given an ETA. The servers that had the long maintenance this past Thursday have it worst right and I'd expect them to stay like this for awhile.
"Don't want to sound like a fanboy, but I am with you. I'll buy it for sure, it's just a matter of for how long I will be playing it..."
- Silvast, Battle.net forums
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Rodent King had this to say about Captain Planet:
So wait wait, when I posted in other threads pre-WoW release about how EQ2 was going to be a better-run than WoW because Sony knew how to run an MMO, I was right?
No, EQ2 just has far, far fewer subscribers to deal with.
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When the babel fish was in place, it was apparent Rodent King said:
So wait wait, when I posted in other threads pre-WoW release about how EQ2 was going to be a better-run than WoW because Sony knew how to run an MMO, I was right?
And yet, somehow, WoW is still continuing to blow EQ2 away and barely anybody plays EQ2.
Under capitalism, man exploits man. Under communism, it's just the opposite. - John Kenneth Galbraith
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Karnaj spewed forth this undeniable truth:
Wow, I didn't realize it had turned into such a crap fest. I wonder if Blizzard underestimated its popularity, or simply released the game too early.
I've felt that they have underestimated its popularity all along.
I also feel that part of the games terrible release has to do with its very small (population-wise) closed beta test.
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Karnaj wrote this stupid crap:
Wow, I didn't realize it had turned into such a crap fest. I wonder if Blizzard underestimated its popularity, or simply released the game too early.
"Released the game too early" is a phrase so grotesquely overused that it's come to be totally meaningless. Of any MMO ever released, WoW is probably the most extensively tested and developed of any in history. The extremely brief time that the game was available for public beta testing was only a blink in the development cycle - development on WoW started in early 1999.
Fact of the matter is that WoW is growing more rapidly than any other MMO in the history of MMO's and accomodations for that kind of expansion are going to suffer some growing pains. There's really nothing that can be done to prevent it.
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ACES! Another post by Rodent King:
So wait wait, when I posted in other threads pre-WoW release about how EQ2 was going to be a better-run than WoW because Sony knew how to run an MMO, I was right?
Incidentally, I'd cite EQ1 as an example of how Sonly doesn't know how to run an MMO.
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Karnaj had this to say about Tron:
Wow, I didn't realize it had turned into such a crap fest. I wonder if Blizzard underestimated its popularity, or simply released the game too early.
Rodent's server isn't half bad either. Tichondrius has over a 1.2k queue and its still not pacific primetime really.
And I call bullshit on Blizzard understimating popularity. I said this back pre-release. What Mythic did before DAoC was look at the pre-orders and number of games being shipped. They then estimated how many servers, etc they'd need and reserved twice that for release and the future if needed. It ended up being their numbers were just about right and they didn't need any of the extra servers.
Blizzard could have done this. Hell, they had even more data than Mythic did because of their massive open betas. There was plenty of complaining then, but Blizzard ignored it. To this day they're unable to handle their server loads. Haven't seen this bad of a MMOG release since the first-gen MMOGs.
I will give them some slack though, despite my bitching. It seems like this is an underlying problem with how the character/item databses are handled, so they can't necessarily throw more servers at the problem to fix it. The fact that lag seems to originate in the AH and mail system before it hits the NPCs and zones gives some credence to this. Also, in beta they removed linking items over general and took out trade channels in most areas to probably help fix the problem. That wasn't enough though obviously. I'd wager we won't see a true fix for awhile if this is the case.
Edit: Maradon, WoW is definitely not growing that rapdily. The product isn't even on store shelves anymore. Lineage, Lineage II, and FFXI all grew far more rapidly than WoW and had less problems overall. Talonus fucked around with this message on 01-17-2005 at 10:35 PM.
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Maradon! painfully thought these words up:
Incidentally, I'd cite EQ1 as an example of how Sonly doesn't know how to run an MMO.
I was online in WoW about 6 minutes before getting booted from WoW after waiting to get in, so now I'm standing in back of the line again. Yet, I could log onto EQ anytime I want to. Outdated, 5-year old MMO's with a lot of expansions to add content are more appealing than waiting in a virtual line.
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Rodent King had this to say about the Spice Girls:
I was online in WoW about 6 minutes before getting booted from WoW after waiting to get in, so now I'm standing in back of the line again. Yet, I could log onto EQ anytime I want to. Outdated, 5-year old MMO's with a lot of expansions to add content are more appealing than waiting in a virtual line.
Oh, that's right I forgot, EQ1 never had any bugs, lag, or server problems and was perfectly administered the whole time, rofl.
I guess I just hate SOE for no reason. Maradon! fucked around with this message on 01-17-2005 at 10:39 PM.
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There was much rejoicing when Talonus said this:
Rodent's server isn't half bad either. Tichondrius has over a 1.2k queue and its still not pacific primetime really.And I call bullshit on Blizzard understimating popularity. I said this back pre-release. What Mythic did before DAoC was look at the pre-orders and number of games being shipped. They then estimated how many servers, etc they'd need and reserved twice that for release and the future if needed. It ended up being their numbers were just about right and they didn't need any of the extra servers.
Blizzard could have done this. Hell, they had even more data than Mythic did because of their massive open betas. There was plenty of complaining then, but Blizzard ignored it. To this day they're unable to handle their server loads. Haven't seen this bad of a MMOG release since the first-gen MMOGs.
I will give them some slack though, despite my bitching. It seems like this is an underlying problem with how the character/item databses are handled, so they can't necessarily throw more servers at the problem to fix it. The fact that lag seems to originate in the AH and mail system before it hits the NPCs and zones gives some credence to this. Also, in beta they removed linking items over general and took out trade channels in most areas to probably help fix the problem. That wasn't enough though obviously. I'd wager we won't see a true fix for awhile if this is the case.
Edit: Maradon, WoW is definitely not growing that rapdily. The product isn't even on store shelves anymore. Lineage, Lineage II, and FFXI all grew far more rapidly than WoW and had less problems overall.
Then it sounds like the fix Blizzard is looking for is: A) Distribute the game's current population from a few highly packed servers to many medium population servers. -OR- B) Figure out how to get more DATABASE servers into their systems so that there is less strain on the servers overall.
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Talonus's unholy Backstreet Boys obsession manifested in:
Edit: Maradon, WoW is definitely not growing that rapdily. The product isn't even on store shelves anymore. Lineage, Lineage II, and FFXI all grew far more rapidly than WoW and had less problems overall.
No they didn't.
For starters, the vast bulk of Lineage's player base plays from a korean internet cafe, so while active accounts may be huge since the entire country plays, the number of simultanious users is limited by seats in a cafe.
FFXI grew to 500,000+ subscribers in four steps over the course of a year, japanese release and american release, then the two PS2 releases.
WoW sold 600,000 units in about a month.
I've been wrong in the past, but check me on this one, I dare ya. Maradon! fucked around with this message on 01-17-2005 at 10:45 PM.
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Maradon! thought this was the Ricky Martin Fan Club Forum and wrote:
Oh, that's right I forgot, EQ1 never had any bugs, lag, or server problems and was perfectly administered the whole time, rofl.I guess I just hate SOE for no reason.
I think that was my point when I posted comments pre-release. Sony's had 5 years of experience, and EQ2 will probably be an overall smoother game launch because of it. I'll admit WoW is a lot of fun, and moves a bit faster than EQ2 content-wise. I'm just worried about how I'm 20 so soon, I get the feeling everyone's going to get to 60 on WoW really quickly and suddenly have nothing to do besides PVP.
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Rodent King had this to say about Pirotess:
I think that was my point when I posted comments pre-release. Sony's had 5 years of experience, and EQ2 will probably be an overall smoother game launch because of it.
Isn't it the EQ2 fanbois that are always shouting that it isn't even the same PEOPLE making EQ2?
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Willias painfully thought these words up:
Then it sounds like the fix Blizzard is looking for is: A) Distribute the game's current population from a few highly packed servers to many medium population servers. -OR- B) Figure out how to get more DATABASE servers into their systems so that there is less strain on the servers overall.
A) Too late after release to switch the current players. Besides, this is a good idea in theory but has never worked for a MMOG ever. Players will wait in queues to get on the server they have their character on. You cannot force them off a server, unless the server is taken down.
B) I'd agree here, but its been nearly two months since release. If simply throwing more servers (of any kind) at the problem would have fixed it, they deserve more of a bitching out than they've gotten so far.
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Maradon! had this to say about (_|_):
No they didn't.For starters, the vast bulk of Lineage's player base plays from a korean internet cafe, so while active accounts may be huge since the entire country plays, the number of simultanious users is limited by seats in a cafe.
FFXI grew to 500,000+ subscribers in four steps over the course of a year, japanese release and american release, then the two PS2 releases.
WoW sold 600,000 units in about a month.
I've been wrong in the past, but check me on this one, I dare ya.
Lineage has a huge number of players period and grew to that number pretty damn quickly IIRC. Lineage II had an incredibly rapid growth of over 1.5 million users with a traditional MMOG subscription system in under 6 months. It easily matched, if not beat out, WoW's number of players. FFXI... ok, I'll give you that one.
As far as WoW, where'd you get the 600k number? I've only seen that number as an estimate based on existing characters, which is far from accurate simply because you can create a number of characters per count. Solid numbers I can remember point to it still being under 500k. I may be wrong there though.
Of course, the whole discussion is moot. WoW isn't on the store shelves. It can't exactly grow rapidly if its not on store shelves. The rumors I've heard are pointing to it not being back on shelves until mid-February at earliest as well.
Hell, its moot for another point as well. Even if it had rapid sales, Blizzard wasn't ready for the relase. Period. Its their fault, not the fault of the players for buying the game. There was a lot they could have done to prepare, like I said in my last post. You even admitted that "WoW is probably the most extensively tested and developed of any in history." Blizzard doesn't have an excuse. Talonus fucked around with this message on 01-17-2005 at 11:00 PM.
Between you and the other five people playing, you'll have a good group!
It's amusing, they have the one of the most popular MMOG's, with 500,000+ subscribers, yet they take the cheap route on patching (torrents) and are obviously running inferior hardware with barely enough bandwidth to even operate their login server.
The game has been out for 2 months, and connectivity and server stability has been steadily getting worse. There was much less lag during the stress test then there is now.
Nobody's perfect, but Blizzard needs to get their shit together quickly. They have a great game going, but if the majority of their subscribers can't even login, they will see a quick decline of their playerbase.
I'm glad that I picked a lower populated server, haven't had to wait in the queue yet, buy my ping which is usually around 80ms averaged about 450-700 in the past 3 days.
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Everyone wondered WTF when Talonus wrote:
As far as WoW, where'd you get the 600k number? I've only seen that number as an estimate based on existing characters, which is far from accurate simply because you can create a number of characters per count. Solid numbers I can remember point to it still being under 500k. I may be wrong there though.
Go to http://www.worldofwarcraft.com/ and look at the third news link.
If you're lazy, I'll quote it for you.
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This holiday season, demand for World of Warcraft was so great that more than 600,000 copies of the game were purchased by customers in North America, Australia, and New Zealand. With so many copies of World of Warcraft installed, the game went on to shatter all previous concurrency records in North America, achieving over 200,000 simultaneous players during the holiday period. Please see the full press release for more details on these momentous achievements.
Another thing to consider, Talonus, is that for all the MMOG's that you've listed in this thread, none have sold as well, as fast, in North America. Sure, Lineage 1 & 2 were mammoth hits over in Korea, but neither can boast anywhere near those numbers over here. Since Blizzard hasn't released their product over in Korea, there's no real basis for comparison. But if you take a look at how well previous products have sold over there (Starcraft was unimaginably popular, after all, and quite a few people have told me that Warcraft 3 sold like mad too), then Lineage 1/2 may have some serious competition when it arrives. Or perhaps not. We shall see, though!
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Maradon! came out of the closet to say:
Incidentally, I'd cite EQ1 as an example of how Sonly doesn't know how to run an MMO.
Fortunately we all stopped looking to you for citations on reality when it comes to anything related to SOE, directly or indirectly, years ago.
The release of WoW from a technical standpoint, among those in a position to speak of such matters, is now regarded as one of the two biggest failures in the maturing MMO genre. Whether it's better or worse than the infamous launch of Anarchy Online is still in the air because while Funcom had a much worse first month, they actually had stable servers after a couple months; something that still eludes Blizzard. The comparisons to AO are strikingly bad news to Blizzard since AO, at the time, was also the biggest MMO launch to date; and their stability problems absolutely decimated their player base.
Your apologetic stance that they didn't know how many players they'd have on release is bullshit as well. They knew exactly how many boxes Vivendi printed. They knew exactly how many people signed up for closed beta. They knew exactly how many people signed up for the stress tests.
Blizzard needs to start getting their act together, post haste, or they'll find those 600,000 subscribers won't be around in a month or two. It doesn't matter how good the game is, and the quality of their offering is the only thing they've got going for them right now, but people won't pay for something they can't play -- and once they leave, they won't come back.
I could probably fill a book with all the more I want to say about the matter, but I don't have time and honestly, you'd just ignore it like you have every time I've been right without fail on matters such as this. (Go back and search my posts and you'll see that I absolutely spot on nailed how WoW would launch: good core game but with unfinished high end content, poorly run servers, and poor post-release updates.)
That's all I have to say on this matter.
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Gadani's fortune cookie read:
I haven't ever had to wait in a queue to log onto WoW.That's all I have to say on this matter.
... Okay? Your personal experiences aside, it's still an issue for many people 
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A sleep deprived Snoota stammered:
This still makes me giggle.
Anyone link the mp3?
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Liam got all f'ed up on Angel Dust and wrote:
... Okay? Your personal experiences aside, it's still an issue for many people
Oh, I'm not saying it's not an issue for other people. I'm just saying that I, personally, have never experienced this issue.
Yes, I went there.
I've only had to wait in a queue twice in my entire time of playing (since the day of release) and one of those two times was the third day of release. And both queues were under 50 people and both took about 5 minutes.
quote:What he said.
Drysart thought this was the Ricky Martin Fan Club Forum and wrote:
words
I personally haven't played in a bit now, but even I can tell something's wrong. Blizzard's good rep has been worn down and they can't use it as a shield much longer. Soon they're gonna have to answer for the subpar service.
Woohoo, pointing out the obvious!
I hope Blizzard manage to hold it together but at the moment it just looks like a large fundamental problem in the program itself to me. Probably not easy to fix
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Y.O.T.C thought this was the Ricky Martin Fan Club Forum and wrote:
AHem.... Shadowbane.Yes, I went there.
Good god that was the worst release by FAR, and they had what, two years of beta testing before that?
Anyway im with gadani on this one, 3 days after WoW has come out I have never had any problems with lag, and never waited in a que. Hyjal was one of the original servers also. Is this only a problem on PvP servers?
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Drysart had this to say about Captain Planet:I could probably fill a book with all the more I want to say about the matter, but I don't have time and honestly, you'd just ignore it like you have every time I've been right without fail on matters such as this. (Go back and search my posts and you'll see that I absolutely spot on nailed how WoW would launch: good core game but with unfinished high end content, poorly run servers, and poor post-release updates.)
/De-lurk.
What concerns me, as I now reach that high end content, is that any plans for updates and additions will likely be shelved until the server stability issues are dealt with. Given that Blizzard have had since open beta to organise themselves and deal with such issues...well, I'm not exactly convinced that a 'fix' (and tossing up a login que is hardly a fix as far as I'm concerned) will be coming any time soon. Battlegrounds would be a huge step in the right direction, but I'm not about to step into a reward-based PVP system when, on a bad night, my server can drop me every 15 minutes or so.
I can honestly say that WoW is by far the best MMOG I've played, but the game is now getting to a point where it is unplayable during peak-time (both US, and AEST times).
And I couldn't have even told you there were still queues around, lord knows I've never seen or heard of them since beta. Go figure. People go on and on about how unplayable it is at peak times, but aside from Ogrimmar being choppy at peak times which is only bad when outside near the bank, I haven't had any issues.
Zul'Jin for life! Vorago fucked around with this message on 01-18-2005 at 06:51 AM.
I've dropped once during peak time since release.
And I don't play on RP Server.
I know there are lots of problems, I just haven't encountered any.
