quote:

---

God is everywhere at GOP convention

Faith and politics come together in San Antonio

By Ken Herman

AMERICAN-STATESMAN STAFF

Saturday, June 5, 2004

SAN ANTONIO -- At the Texas Republican Convention, God and the GOP are even tighter than the mere one-letter difference might indicate.

There's no official count, but the convention references to God are running about neck and neck with the mentions of home-state hero George W. Bush.

And on the evening of the first day, the Rev. Charles Murphy of Heritage Baptist Church in Missouri City was moved to comment on it.

"I thought when I was over there today I was at church," Murphy said gleefully before offering the invocation at a Texas Christian Coalition dinner on Thursday. "I heard more about God there than I hear at some of the conventions we go to that say they are Christian."

For many delegates at the three-day convention, religion and politics commingle with comfort, purpose and zeal. Delegates on Friday approved a platform that refers to "the myth of the separation of church and state."

"Faith is important to the vast majority of Texans," said Tina Benkiser, a Houston lawyer re-elected Friday as state GOP chairwoman. "And when you have real faith, that is who you are, and obviously what you want is your principles and your ideals to be put in public policy.

"And I think Texans clearly agree because they have put us in stewardship of statewide government at every branch of government," she said.

Much of the religious-oriented language is carried over from previous GOP platforms, as is the Christian enthusiasm of many delegates. But Texas Democrats, currently shut out of all statewide offices, believe the increasing religious overtones should concern voters looking for mainstream leadership.

"It reads like the longest political suicide note in Texas history," Texas Democratic Chairman Charles Soechting said of the GOP platform. "It will scare the living daylights out of most Christians. It's an anti-Christian platform because it seeks to punish people, and it embodies the very worst of the right-wing Christian movement."

Democrats, he said, would benefit greatly if GOP candidates swore allegiance to the platform, something few do.

"It would scare away a bunch of the middle," Soechting said.

Bruce Buchanan, a University of Texas government professor, agreed.

"Even though this is a conservative state with a strong religious right component, there are moderate Republicans and centrist Democrats who would be repelled by that," he said of the GOP platform.

It's a platform that offers tangible evidence of how religion -- a specific brand of religion -- guides Texas' party in power.

A plank in a section titled "Promoting Individual Freedom and Personal Safety" proclaims the United States a "Christian nation."

"The party affirms freedom of religion and rejects efforts of courts and secular activists who seek to remove and deny such a rich heritage from our public lives," says a passage added this year.

The rewritten "Celebrating Traditional Marriage" section now calls for legislation making it a felony for anyone to issue a marriage license to a same-sex couple or for a "civil official" to perform a wedding ceremony for such couples.

Also new this year is a section declaring that the Ten Commandments "are the basis of our basic freedoms and the cornerstone of our Western legal tradition."

"We therefore oppose any governmental action to restrict, prohibit or remove public display of the Decalogue or other religious symbols."

The platform continues to approach gambling as a moral issue, damning it as "devastating" to families.

In an update targeted at GOP Gov. Rick Perry's call for slot machines at pari-mutuel tracks and Indian property to raise money for schools, the new platform says, "We strongly oppose gambling, in any form, as a means to fund education."

The Christian impact on the party has been obvious at the convention of a party that has gone way beyond the standard "God Bless Texas" speech closing line made popular by Democrat Bob Bullock and adopted by many politicians.

Two years ago, at a GOP convention prayer rally, state District Judge Faith Johnson called on all judges to accept Jesus Christ. On Thursday, former GOP Chairwoman Susan Weddington of San Antonio, accepting an award, talked about how Jesus Christ informed her when it was time to move on to a new endeavor. Railroad Commissioner Michael Williams indicated God will guide him toward what elected office he should next seek.

Benkiser, who beat out Waco lawyer Gina Parker for party leader, told delegates about her work at Houston's Second Baptist Church, a 32,000-member congregation that has become a social and political force in the Houston area.

Perry's reference to God drew a standing ovation during his anti-abortion-rights comments.

"This great human journey from the moment of conception until our last moments on Earth confirms the presence of a divine creator and the sacred nature of human life," Perry said, igniting thunderous applause.

At a 7 a.m. Friday prayer rally, thousands of delegates turned the convention floor into a house of prayer.

As delegates prayed and sang, oversized religious images, including Jesus on the cross, were displayed on the hall's giant video screens. Christian clergymen took turns leading the prayers, some with political overtones.

"Heavenly father, you fashioned the family to be one man and one woman committed to each other for life," Pastor Charles Burchett of Kirbyville's First Baptist Church said in a reference to same-sex marriage.

"Jehovah Jesus, we are living in a time when the foundations of the family and the foundations of the church are being attacked and destroyed," he said.

---

Source

This is just absurd. It seems like people simply can't get into their mind that belief and politics do not mix.

What next? Legalize against divorce, perhaps?

EDIT: Curse you, non auto URL.

Zaza fucked around with this message on 06-07-2004 at 02:50 PM.

quote:

---

And I was all like 'Oh yeah?' and Zaza was all like:
Source

This is just absurd. It seems like people simply can't get into their mind that belief and politics do not mix.

What next? Legalize against divorce, perhaps?

EDIT: Curse you, non auto URL.

---

Beliefs are all politics are.

quote:

---

Naimah wrote, obviously thinking too hard:
Beliefs are all politics are.

---

Oh yes, what a brilliant statement. The need for a structured society to ensure that individual people can live fairly happy and secure lives is just an insubstanial belief.

I know that you're a hilarious right-wing apologist, but can you at least try to sound credible?

quote:

---

Zaza had this to say about Duck Tales:
Oh yes, what a brilliant statement. The need for a structured society to ensure that individual people can live fairly happy and secure lives is just an insubstanial belief.

I know that you're a hilarious right-wing apologist, but can you at least try to sound credible?

---

You read it wrong. You beleive the liberal approach is correct, for the most part I believe the conservative style is the better concept. When it comes right down to it both work, it is just what you believe is the better method.

EDIT: Oh, there's the abortion nod. My bad.

Karnaj fucked around with this message on 06-07-2004 at 03:30 PM.

quote:

---

Naimah had this to say about Tron:
You read it wrong. You beleive the liberal approach is correct, for the most part I believe the conservative style is the better concept. When it comes right down to it both work, it is just what you believe is the better method.

---

Look up the differences between "opinion" and "belief" sometimes.

quote:

---

Zaza had this to say about Cuba:
Look up the differences between "opinion" and "belief" sometimes.

---

Political loyalty goes beyond opinion and approches the realm of belief in todays society.

quote:

---

Naimah probably says this to all the girls:
Political loyalty goes beyond opinion and approches the realm of belief in todays society.

---

So every person engaged in politics in the entire world living as of today bases their political views entirely on loyalty to a certain mindset?

I repeat:

quote:

---

Zaza wrote this stupid crap:
So every person engaged in politics in the entire world living as of today bases their political views entirely on loyalty to a certain mindset?

I repeat:

---

Way to hyperbolize. Studies to show that the political views a people are hevily influenced by those of their parents. That seems like a fair ammount of belief to me.

quote:

---

Khyron had this to say about Knight Rider:
Zaza seems to have more interest in american politics than 3/4 of the americans on the board I find that ironic.

---

Wheter I like it or not, America is the most powerful country in the world, so American politics affect the entire world. It would be stupid to assume that what your governement does and doesn't do wouldn't create ripples in the rest of the world.

quote:

---

There was much rejoicing when Zaza said this:
Wheter I like it or not, America is the most powerful country in the world, so American politics affect the entire world. It would be stupid to assume that what your governement does and doesn't do wouldn't create ripples in the rest of the world.

---

Just keep in mind what we do is going to seem odd to you because America as a whole is in general more conservative then Europe.

quote:

---

Naimah thought this was the Ricky Martin Fan Club Forum and wrote:
Way to hyperbolize. Studies to show that the political views a people are hevily influenced by those of their parents. That seems like a fair ammount of belief to me.

---

I quote:

quote:

---

Beliefs are all politics are.

---

Whom of us is hyperbolizing again?

So, either you think that everyone is in fact, blindly adhering to a party, and that thus it's the only method, or you think it's the proper method, since you challenged my statement that belief is bad in politics.

Which'll it be?

quote:

---

Zaza was naked while typing this:
Wheter I like it or not, America is the most powerful country in the world, so American politics affect the entire world. It would be stupid to assume that what your governement does and doesn't do wouldn't create ripples in the rest of the world.

---

I concur, I just think it's ironic that someone over in europe pays more attention and has more interest in it, than most americans do. Not bashin' ya or anything

Politics go way above my head, I try to pay attention, but it's like talking in programming Jargon to a newborn

I personally find the article absurd, but I know why they're doing it. It sucks.

Kegwen fucked around with this message on 06-07-2004 at 03:43 PM.

quote:

---

Zaza was naked while typing this:
Whom of us is hyperbolizing again?

So, either you think that everyone is in fact, blindly adhering to a party, and that thus it's the only method, or you think it's the proper method, since you challenged my statement that belief is bad in politics.

Which'll it be?

---

Is it the only way? No. For the majority of people is it the only way? Yes. Do I think that it is the best solution? No.

The fact is many people adhear to a party line because that is how they were raised and that can easily be considered a belief.

quote:

---

Kegwen thought this was the Ricky Martin Fan Club Forum and wrote:
Za, I think the point he's trying to get across isn't that it's definately a good thing that people base their political views on their religious beliefs, but mainly just that it happens and that there isn't much we can do about it. Politicians are doing the smart thing by catering to the conservative Christian crowd. It earns them a LOT of votes. Whether or not that is a 'good' practice doesn't really matter.

I personally find the article absurd, but I know why they're doing it. It sucks.

---

Soo... basically he was pointing out the obvious?

quote:

---

Zaza had this to say about the Spice Girls:
Soo... basically he was pointing out the obvious?

---

Seems like it.

quote:

---

Zaza had this to say about pies:
Soo... basically he was pointing out the obvious?

---

And you are just being inflammatory.

quote:

---

Naimah's unholy Backstreet Boys obsession manifested in:
And you are just being inflammatory.

---

I was just trying to figure out why you even posted that. At first it seemed like you were trying to play apologist for these people.

Zaza fucked around with this message on 06-07-2004 at 03:49 PM.

quote:

---

Zaza had this to say about dark elf butts:
I was just trying to figure out why you even posted that. At first it seemed like you were trying to play apologist for these people.

---

I'm defending a viewpoint that won't get any defense in this community. Except maybe from Azziza.

quote:

---

Zaza had this to say about Cuba:
I was just trying to figure out why you even posted that. At first it seemed like you were trying to play apologist for these people.

---

No, you were clearly seeking a fight, as you always do whenever a political thread pops up. You get rabidly defensive.

quote:

---

Naimah had this to say about Captain Planet:
I'm defending a viewpoint that won't get any defense in this community. Except maybe from Azziza.

---

But why? It's obviously a very stupid viewpoint. Once you've stonewalled your mind and decided that the words of the great boogeyman in the sky has been shoved down everyone else's throat, you lose any credibility to act on an political arena, IMO.

quote:

---

Mr. Parcelan was naked while typing this:
No, you were clearly seeking a fight, as you always do whenever a political thread pops up. You get rabidly defensive.

---

o rly

I agree, though. Pointing out why the statement "All politics are beliefs" is wrong is definitely being rabidly defensive.

Did you even read the thread? Or did you just decide to jump in and troll out of the blue?

Zaza fucked around with this message on 06-07-2004 at 03:55 PM.

quote:

---

Zaza Model 2000 was programmed to say:
o rly

I agree, though. Pointing out why the statement "All politics are beliefs" is wrong is definitely being rabidly defensive.

Did you even read the thread? Or did you just decide to jump in and troll out of the blue?

---

Did you? I read you being a sarcastic douche to Naimah, while he was being completely civil. I have read you dismissing all conservatives as "mindless, Republican lapdogs."

I seem to have all the evidence I need to make that claim.

quote:

---

Mr. Parcelan had this to say about Tron:
Did you? I read you being a sarcastic douche to Naimah, while he was being completely civil. I have read you dismissing all conservatives as "mindless, Republican lapdogs."

I seem to have all the evidence I need to make that claim.

---

I was being sarcastic in my first reply, because Naimah's initial claim was rather ridiculous. So? Being sarcastic in an argument != enterting it for the sheer purpose of picking a fight.

As for the second, provide a link.

Zaza fucked around with this message on 06-07-2004 at 04:00 PM.

quote:

---

Zaza had this to say about Reading Rainbow:
I was being sarcastic, because Naimah's initial claim was rather ridiculous. So? Being sarcastic in an argument != enterting it for the sheer purpose of picking a fight.

As for the second, provide a link.

---

I don't have the patience to, but we both know that you've done it before. But hey, if you don't want to stand by your actions, I can respect that.

quote:

---

Naimah put down Tada! magazine long enough to type:
I'm defending a viewpoint that won't get any defense in this community. Except maybe from Azziza.

---

It won't get defense because it's an idiotic viewpoint. And no, that's not a belief, that's a fact. The religious right supports discrimination and bigotry on a national scale, and it does so in the most abrasive way it can. Most, if not all of their political aims are designed to hurt someone else and benefit themselves and, in some cases, other Christians.

quote:

---

Mr. Parcelan had this to say about Optimus Prime:
I don't have the patience to, but we both know that you've done it before. But hey, if you don't want to stand by your actions, I can respect that.

---

Entertaining.

I have called you a mindless Bush supporter. To my knowledge, I have never made such a sweeping generalization about conservatives. There are conservatives here on the boards that I respect and who provide solid arguments, such as Call, Sage, etc.

Feel free to prove me wrong, but until then, don't claim you have proof.

By their nature, political conventions are going to draw the most active and committed members of the party. The more casual, and presumably, more moderate members of the party probably aren't going to be as well represented in the attendees. The Democratic convention will probably draw a similar crowd, skewed in the other direction, and one could draw parallel, but left-wing comparisons of Democrats as a bunch of tree-hugging, tax and spend, liberal, crypto-socialist one-worlders. And it would be about as accurate as the picture of Republicans painted here.

Think of it as forming your opinion of comic book readers based SOLELY on going to, say, the San Diego Comicon. You'd probably view them as being overly geeky, socially maladjusted, with poor hygiene and interpersonal skills and bizarre wardrobe tendencies. And that's not the view you'd get if you viewed the greater whole of the comic community at the neighborhood comic shop.

quote:

---

Aw, geez, I have Callalron all over myself!
Well, here's how I see it.

By their nature, political conventions are going to draw the most active and committed members of the party. The more casual, and presumably, more moderate members of the party probably aren't going to be as well represented in the attendees. The Democratic convention will probably draw a similar crowd, skewed in the other direction, and one could draw parallel, but left-wing comparisons of Democrats as a bunch of tree-hugging, tax and spend, liberal, crypto-socialist one-worlders. And it would be about as accurate as the picture of Republicans painted here.

---

I don't think anyone would contest that. However, I don't think anyone's equating the religious right with all Republicans any more than anyone's equating ultra-liberals with all Democrats. This article is all about the hardliners who support discrimination and bigotry. The article's author or its editor may be trying to suggest that all Republicans can be counted amongst the religious right with the tone of the article, but I don't think anyone else is.

quote:

---

Gydyon had this to say about Duck Tales:
omg i r religious and conservative therefore I support bigotry and discrimination omg omg omg

---

free tibet you christian dog, you. >:((((((

quote:

---

From the book of Callalron, chapter 3, verse 16:
Think of it as forming your opinion of comic book readers based SOLELY on going to, say, the San Diego Comicon. You'd probably view them as being overly geeky, socially maladjusted, with poor hygiene and interpersonal skills and bizarre wardrobe tendencies. And that's not the view you'd get if you viewed the greater whole of the comic community at the neighborhood comic shop.

---

I dunno... the regular gang that hangs out at the store I found to buy all my manga from seems to have been clearly described by you already.. "overly geeky, socially maladjusted, with poor hygiene and interpersonal skills and bizarre wardrobe tendencies"...

If I had a nickel for every time one of them has tried to hit on me while I been browsing the shelves, I could buy the goddamn store, and still have enough change to turn it into a multinational franchise.....

SCARY!!

Abbikat fucked around with this message on 06-07-2004 at 07:33 PM.

Gydyon continues to be the perfect example of the flaw in any "religious people are all fucked up/suspicion-worthy/evil/wrong" arguments, and one that, in the usual rabid fervor demonstrated by Zaza (who gets his facts by remote viewing via the lens of the online media rather than by living in the country of issue on a day to day basis), tends to get intentionally overlooked. Hopefully I don't have to restate my point about religious belief being the source of all evil again.

Point 2:

Callalron, ever eloquent and given to good analogy, pointed out the cold hard facts of the national political party conventions. Thankfully, I therefore don't have to repeat all my arguments and comments here again.

Point 3:

If it hasn't been made clear yet, Zaza, you seldom bring new arguments to the table. Wrap it up however you like, you're rapidly turning into the "Anti-Conservative" whiner on a level equal to Maradon's old necromancer whining. And the parallels are staggering. From a certain perspective your views could be correct, just as Maradon's necromancer whining was accurate if you took certain paradigms into account. But just as Maradon was lacking in a few crucial common sense places, so also are you.

Likewise, you so rabidly attack when there's even a hint of blood in the water, whenever there's a hint of a cheap shot to be made, that it's getting tedious. There's plenty of Liberals (Drysart, namely) who tend to make liberal arguments a lot more accurately and efficiently without the rabidity you tend to show. There's also several liberal crackpots (who I won't name because this isn't a flame thread) who balance out the conservative crackpots (going unnamed for the same reason as the liberal crackpots) without needing you being the vanguard.

Likewise, sarcasm or not, you started a discussion thread. If you didn't want the counterpoint to your overstated point to be voiced, start a webpage where you can post your manifestos. Don't get snippy and snipe or flame people when they point out either the glaringly obvious or argue the opposite side to what you're on.

It's getting to the point where Zaza "Politics" threads should be "Flame" threads, because heaven (ha ha I use a religious reference, I must be an EVIL CONSERVATIVE BASTARD) help you if you post a dissenting point of view.

quote:

---

Ja'Deth Issar Ka'bael had this to say about Pirotess:
(ha ha I use a religious reference, I must be an EVIL CONSERVATIVE BASTARD)

---

Oh you are so going to hell for that one Deth

quote:

---

Ja'Deth Issar Ka'bael obviously shouldn't have said:
There's plenty of Liberals (Drysart, namely) who tend to make liberal arguments a lot more accurately and efficiently without the rabidity you tend to show. There's also several liberal crackpots (who I won't name because this isn't a flame thread) who balance out the conservative crackpots (going unnamed for the same reason as the liberal crackpots) without needing you being the vanguard.

---

I hope I fit in the first category rather than the second, but I have no illusions of my reputation...

Anyhow, I think what some people have to understand is that the term "Religious Right" doesn't actually refer to everyone who is conservative and religious. at least this is how I understand it. The religious right tends to refer to the group that believes that government should legislate on the basis of religion (such as outlawing gay marriage because the bible says it is wrong, or forbidding stem cell research, etc).

You can be religious and conservative and still recognize the logic in not having laws that will only reflect your specific view of morality.

I should also add that one of Germany's two main parties are the Christian Democrats and various other parties in europe have got vaguely religious roots.