I have no more problems with religious people than I do with people who believe in UFOs or people who think flying pink elephants exist, but I don't respect their belief in the least, and if they even hinted at enforcing it on me I'd go completely Al-Qaida-ballistic.
Cue Parcelan making a comment about Denmark's impressive military force in 5...4...3...
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From the book of Jens, chapter 3, verse 16:
flying pink elephants
Man if you think a bird crapping on you as it flies past is bad, elephants would really suck...
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Everyone wondered WTF when Ja'Deth Issar Ka'bael wrote:
Point 1:Gydyon continues to be the perfect example of the flaw in any "religious people are all fucked up/suspicion-worthy/evil/wrong" arguments, and one that, in the usual rabid fervor demonstrated by Zaza (who gets his facts by remote viewing via the lens of the online media rather than by living in the country of issue on a day to day basis), tends to get intentionally overlooked. Hopefully I don't have to restate my point about religious belief being the source of all evil again.
I have never once seen Za claim that every single person who claims to have a religion is subhuman. Yes, that includes this thread. I distinctly recall him not understanding the appeal of religion, and even making an attempt to resolve that.
Gydydon is a good man. We all know that. Most of us respect his opinions and his faith. However, not all religious people are truly good people like he is. There's no way of telling what proportion of them are. Oh well. However, which do you hear about more often: bigotry in the name of religion, or good deeds in the name of religion? I don't know about you, but it's definately the former for me. When you're looking at the country from the outside like he is, yes the view is going to be inaccurate. Cut him a bit of slack on that.
Za usually takes issue only when politics and religion begin to blend together. They don't belong together in this system. However, when he sees things like this where a major political party is shamelessly bringing up religion in their proceedings (whether it's for a good cause or not), what do you think goes through his mind?
Anyway, I think you're exaggerating Za's statements. Whether or not you're doing that just because you don't like him or because you genuinely has misinterpreted his message is not something I'll attempt to claim. I don't think Za thinks that religion is the source of all evil. 
I really do think as highly of religious people as I do of people who believe in flying pink elephants.
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So quoth Jens:
I don't get why religion is so widely accepted.
It's old and familiar.
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ACES! Another post by JooJooFlop:
It's old and familiar.
Old and Busted: Catholocism
New Hotness: Catholocism WOW Campaign
sigpic courtesy of This Guy, original modified by me
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I want some of what Jens was smoking when they wrote this:
I don't get why religion is so widely accepted.I really do think as highly of religious people as I do of people who believe in flying pink elephants.
The average IQ of this board (Barring one or two members, maybe) is well above 120.
I'd love to do a study, seeing if IQ has any relation to religion.
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Jens had this to say about (_|_):
I don't get why religion is so widely accepted.
I have my own theories about why it's so widely accepted... but I'll keep them to myself.
I have no major problem with people wanting to be (and being) religeous. It's their life, they can go do with it whatever they desire. I *DO* however object to those ones who try to jam their way of living down my throat becuase they think they are somehow better suited than I to determine where my life should go.. 
Personally though, I'll start accepting religeon when they all start living by one of their primary creeds.. that all people are created equal.
i declare jihad on typos... Abbikat fucked around with this message on 06-07-2004 at 08:24 PM.
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Check out the big brain on Jens!I really do think as highly of religious people as I do of people who believe in flying pink elephants.
I give them more credit because they were raised to believe this and it is immersed in our culture (American culture at least) that it is true and normal to believe. Flying pink elephants are generally believed to be false.
Also, God fills a necessary role. The role of answering why we are here and how we were created. Flying pink elephants and UFOs don't really answer any such question and choosing to believe in them would just be...random.
So, religious people are perfectly understandable in my eyes. Zair fucked around with this message on 06-07-2004 at 08:27 PM.
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Folks, it's time to evolve ideas. We... you know, evolution did not end with us growing thumbs. You do know that, right? It didn't end there. We're at the point now where we... we're going to have to evolve ideas. The reason the world is so fucked up is because we're undergoing evolution, and the reason our institutions, our traditional religions are all crumbling is because they're no longer relevant.
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Zair enlisted the help of an infinite number of monkeys to write:
The role of answering why we are here
Maybe I attended the wrong Sunday school classes as a kid... but I never once heard any religeon give a definitive answer to this beyond "we exist to worship god.."
And to my mind, creating something just so that it can worship you sounds a little warped... 
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And now, we sprinkle Jens liberally with Old Spice!
I don't get why religion is so widely accepted.I really do think as highly of religious people as I do of people who believe in flying pink elephants.
It's a coping mechanism. Humans are uniquely aware of their own mortality, and religion was invented to assuage anxiety about death and explain natural phenomona. Today, we can explain natural phenomona via science but our mortality still remains, hence its continued wide acceptance.
Of course, that's a rather simplified explanation. We'd have to consider about a gillion historical, geographical, sociological, and political minutiae to figure out the precise reasons. At its heart though, it abbrogates anxiety brought on by human mortality.
Under capitalism, man exploits man. Under communism, it's just the opposite. - John Kenneth Galbraith
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Zair attempted to be funny by writing:
I give them more credit because they were raised to believe this and it is immersed in our culture (American culture at least) that it is true and normal to believe. Flying pink elephants are generally believed to be false.Also, God fills a necessary role. The role of answering why we are here and how we were created. Flying pink elephants and UFOs don't really answer any such question and choosing to believe in them would just be...random.
So, religious people are perfectly understandable in my eyes.
There are people who believe that we were created by alien races.
By your logic, they're perfectly understandable.
By my logic, they're both stupid for believing in something that there's no logical reason to believe in. Being raised to believe something or it being generally accepted does not make it any more true than it is.
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Zair had this to say about Reading Rainbow:
I give them more credit because they were raised to believe this and it is immersed in our culture (American culture at least) that it is true and normal to believe. Flying pink elephants are generally believed to be false.Also, God fills a necessary role. The role of answering why we are here and how we were created. Flying pink elephants and UFOs don't really answer any such question and choosing to believe in them would just be...random.
So, religious people are perfectly understandable in my eyes.
I find UFOs easier to accept than gods to be honest.
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Jens probably says this to all the girls:
There are people who believe that we were created by alien races.By your logic, they're perfectly understandable.
No, because one of the key parts of my post was that it is commonly accepted in our culture and seen as very normal. If believing that people were created by aliens was commonly accepted by the general populace then I could understand that too. They aren't perfectly understandable, however, until "The Passion of the Martian" makes more than Gibson's flick.
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Mod had this to say about dark elf butts:
I find UFOs easier to accept than gods to be honest.
Me too. We are in the minority though.
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I don't understand the whole fundamentalist thing.. basically they take the word to be "THE word". It cannot be interpreted, it is not a metaphor.. Like I said "What about Genesis... "'Let the be light' could it be a metaphor for the Big Bang.. the creation of the universe in that instance?" "No, God just went click.." (said in a Gomer Pyle type accent)
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Zair said this about your mom:
No, because one of the key parts of my post was that it is commonly accepted in our culture and seen as very normal. If believing that people were created by aliens was commonly accepted by the general populace then I could understand that too. They aren't perfectly understandable, however, until "The Passion of the Martian" makes more than Gibson's flick.
I misunderstood you. Sorry, my bad.
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When the babel fish was in place, it was apparent Jens said:
Cue Parcelan making a comment about Denmark's impressive military force in 5...4...3...
rofl the danish military force is so silly who would name a military force after a breakfast pastry????
that jens is a jive turkey
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Abbikat obviously shouldn't have said:
Maybe I attended the wrong Sunday school classes as a kid... but I never once heard any religeon give a definitive answer to this beyond "we exist to worship god.."And to my mind, creating something just so that it can worship you sounds a little warped...
In the ancient Mesopotamian creation myth, Marduk created humans to be servants of the gods. The Hebrew Bible, that evolved partially from that myth and the myths of surrounding areas, establishes a god that similarly creates humans who have the sole purpose of worshipping him and obeying his laws. From what I know of the Hebrew Bible religions (Christianity, Islam, Judaism), that is the only real purpose humans are given. Perhaps there is some other greater unknown purpose for humanity, but as far as I know it has not been given.
The whole idea of a God creating us for the sole purpose of worshipping him never really made sense to me. I think it was one of the reasons I never really could connect with religion.
Look at the presidental election, for instance. Kerry's numbers are higher than any modern candidate for president has ever been at this date -- and not due to the fact that people like Kerry (the campaign hasn't really started campaigning in earnest yet, so Kerry's still an unknown in most voters' eyes), but that people don't like Bush. The Bush team knows they're not going to win the election by campaigning their candidate, so their strategy is to smear Kerry as much as possible, make the election as dirty as possible so that two goals are accomplished: First, people who don't know Kerry yet will hear from the Bush folks first that he's not a good candidate, and that leads to the other goal; moderates who don't want to vote for Bush will be discouraged about voting for Kerry, so they just won't vote at all. And since they're actively trying to get the moderates out of the election, they're spending the rest of their efforts in rallying up the extreme right.
If you want to see this effort in earnest, compare Kerry's campaign website with Bush's campaign website. Kerry's website is filled with Kerry. Bush's website is also filled with Kerry. (Notice that you don't even see Bush's picture at all on his website -- a clear sign that they're not campaigning for Bush, they're campaigning against Kerry.) Drysart fucked around with this message on 06-07-2004 at 09:16 PM.
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Ja'Deth Issar Ka'bael had this to say about Punky Brewster:
Old and Busted: Catholocism
New Hotness: Catholocism WOW Campaign
Men in Black 2 and Dogma in one swoop.
I'm almost impressed.
It's not something people hear about.
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Drysart had this to say about dark elf butts:
Bush's campaign website. Notice that you don't even see Bush's picture at all on his website
Isn't Dubya the dude in the white hard-hat in the main pic up top, patting the other guy on the shoulder (in the header banner of Bush-Cheney '04)?
I mean ok, you cant see his face, but to say that there isnt a single pic of him on his page is stretching it a tad Drys.. but yeah,. there are WAY more Kerry pics on the Bush site than Bush pics..
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Abbikat came out of the closet to say:
I mean ok, you cant see his face, but to say that there isnt a single pic of him on his page is stretching it a tad Drys
I'd consider any picture where you can't see either the candidates eyes or mouth as one that doesn't count.
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How.... Drysart.... uughhhhhh:
I'd consider any picture where you can't see either the candidates eyes or mouth as one that doesn't count.
hrmmm... I still say stretching it a bit... but that's my own opinion.
Personally though, at this stage I don't see any major differences between the two other than the usual party split demographs.. but Kerry is definately more of an unknown quantity here (and Bush is just generally not thought of highly by a majority of Aussies.. but then we havent really ever held much esteem for US presidents for a while i think, probably not since early Reagan days.. the office yes, the holders themselves, no..)
Until Kerry becomes more known to folks outside the US though, I think the vast majority of world opinion would be "Kerry changes sides of the argument too many times to be considered reliable. Bush may be an idiot at times, but at least he's a decisive idiot.."
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Verily, Drysart doth proclaim:
I'd consider any picture where you can't see either the candidates eyes or mouth as one that doesn't count.
Isn't he also in the cowboyhat on the right hand side... kinda profiled view?
Can see an eye and some mouth! *ducks and cackles* 
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Trillee had this to say about Jimmy Carter:
Isn't he also in the cowboyhat on the right hand side... kinda profiled view?Can see an eye and some mouth! *ducks and cackles*
Ah yeah, the volunteer now pic.. that one didnt show for me when i first clicked to his site.. everytime you refresh you get different pics..
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Check out the big brain on Abbikat!
Ah yeah, the volunteer now pic.. that one didnt show for me when i first clicked to his site.. everytime you refresh you get different pics..
Sneaky Bastids!!
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Trillee said this about your mom:
Sneaky Bastids!!
Can't trust a politician
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Abbikat came out of the closet to say:
Until Kerry becomes more known to folks outside the US though, I think the vast majority of world opinion would be "Kerry changes sides of the argument too many times to be considered reliable. Bush may be an idiot at times, but at least he's a decisive idiot.."
And that viewpoint is solely the product of Republican spindoctoring, illustrating the point perfectly. 
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Drysart thought this was the Ricky Martin Fan Club Forum and wrote:
And that viewpoint is solely the product of Republican spindoctoring, illustrating the point perfectly.
Which is why most Aussies dont like the guy... but we know virtually nil of Kerry beyond what we get on cable TV CNN etc (run by Rupert Murdoch.. who's he support again?? oh yeah that's right)
oh and Nice to see you took my suggestion for the new tag Drys
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Drysart spewed forth this undeniable truth:
And that viewpoint is solely the product of Republican spindoctoring, illustrating the point perfectly.
Except for the parts that aren't. Like that he voted against the first Gulf War, which he now says he supports, and that he voted for the second Gulf War, which he is now opposed to. Or that, in his own words "I voted for the $87 billion (supplemental), until I voted against it." Or the fact that he's as far left as he is. The National Journal computed Kerry's liberal rating by analyzing his Congressional voting record between 1985 and 2003 at 85.7. His 2003 rating of 96.5 puts him farther left than Barbara Boxer (91.2), Hillary Clinton (88.8) or Ted Kennedy (88.3). In fact for 2003, he was the most liberal member of the Senate. Considering that the vast majority of the American electorate identify themselves as either moderate or conservative, the gentleman from Massachusetts has his work cut out for him.
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Blah blah blah Callalron blah blah blah...
Except for the parts that aren't. Like that he voted against the first Gulf War, which he now says he supports, and that he voted for the second Gulf War, which he is now opposed to. Or that, in his own words "I voted for the $87 billion (supplemental), until I voted against it." Or the fact that he's as far left as he is. The National Journal computed Kerry's liberal rating by analyzing his Congressional voting record between 1985 and 2003 at 85.7. His 2003 rating of 96.5 puts him farther left than Barbara Boxer (91.2), Hillary Clinton (88.8) or Ted Kennedy (88.3). In fact for 2003, he was the most liberal member of the Senate. Considering that the vast majority of the American electorate identify themselves as either moderate or conservative, the gentleman from Massachusetts has his work cut out for him.
Does this national journal take into account anything relating to the bill? OH NO! He voted left because someone tacked on a rightwing amendment! HOW DARE HE.
I hate political debates.
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Callalron had this to say about the Spice Girls:
Or that, in his own words "I voted for the $87 billion (supplemental), until I voted against it."
Wasn't that the bill where he voted for all that money and stuff for the military but then a bunch of shit got tacked onto the bill so he ended up voting against it?
And the reason you don't like political threads is probably because fenderheads like yourself make pithy comments like "OH HOE! HOW DAER HE?! instead of adding anything constructive. So sit down, have a tall, frosty glass of Shut The Fuck Up, and the let people who actually have something worthwhile to say, say it.
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JooJooFlop's unholy Backstreet Boys obsession manifested in:
Wasn't that the bill where he voted for all that money and stuff for the military but then a bunch of shit got tacked onto the bill so he ended up voting against it?
[SPEAKER] Then it is unanimous, we are going to approve the bill to evacuate the town of Springfield in the great state of--
[CONGRESSMAN] Wait a second, I want to tack on a rider to that bill - $30 million of taxpayer money to support the perverted arts.
[SPEAKER] All in favor of the amended Springfield-slash-pervert bill?
[FLOOR] Boo!
[SPEAKER] Bill defeated.
[Kent Brockman] I've said it before, and I'll say it again: democracy just doesn't work. Abbikat fucked around with this message on 06-08-2004 at 12:13 AM.
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Callalron came out of the closet to say:
Like that he voted against the first Gulf War, which he now says he supports, and that he voted for the second Gulf War, which he is now opposed to.
Ahem. On January 11, 1991, Kerry voted for a resolution urging the President to consider strict economic sanctions as an alternative to war. This is the vote that's always pointed to in order to paint that "Kerry was against the first Gulf War". However, once the war started, Kerry was complete in his support of the deployment in Iraq.
As far as the second Gulf War is concerned, you'll have to remember that Bush was telling everyone that Saddam definately had weapons of mass destruction and was a clear and present threat to the United States. Of course, now that the "threat" has been exposed as a lie, Kerry rightly derides Bush for misleading everyone into the war, and he supports maintaining our occupation of Iraq until the job is finished.
In both cases, Kerry is of the viewpoint that if the war is necessary, it should be done -- and in any case, America is responsible for finishing the job, no matter the circumstances leading up to it in the first place. That's not flip-flopping, that's common sense.
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Callalron came out of the closet to say:
Or that, in his own words "I voted for the $87 billion (supplemental), until I voted against it."
Oh come on Cal, this is something I'd expect Azizza to be quoting, not you. There were indeed two seperate votes over the same $87 billion -- the first of which was popular with Democrats but voted down by Republicans (it would have repealed some of the tax cuts to pay for the funding), and the second was popular with Republicans and not with Democrats (as it contained no such tax provision). The exact quotation was cherry-picked out of the middle of speech where Kerry was explaining the Republican fiscal irresponsibility.
If you're going to continue to point and laugh at that, I'll just as legitamitely say that Bush didn't support the $87 billion, then he did. I'm almost afraid you're going to start quoting Bush's ads about how Kerry voted to do away with helicopters, fighter jets, and missiles too.
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Callalron came out of the closet to say:
Or the fact that he's as far left as he is. The National Journal computed Kerry's liberal rating by analyzing his Congressional voting record between 1985 and 2003 at 85.7. His 2003 rating of 96.5 puts him farther left than Barbara Boxer (91.2), Hillary Clinton (88.8) or Ted Kennedy (88.3). In fact for 2003, he was the most liberal member of the Senate. Considering that the vast majority of the American electorate identify themselves as either moderate or conservative, the gentleman from Massachusetts has his work cut out for him.
Fun fact: due to his campaign schedule, Kerry missed two-thirds of the rated votes in 2003. Achieving a high ranking is easy when your ranking is calculated off much fewer votes than everyone else.
Besides, what does that have to do with his supposed indecisiveness? Sounds like he's consistently liberal --- which is quite the opposite of flip-flopping.
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Drysart Model 2000 was programmed to say:
As far as the second Gulf War is concerned, you'll have to remember that Bush was telling everyone that Saddam definately had weapons of mass destruction and was a clear and present threat to the United States. Of course, now that the "threat" has been exposed as a lie
Fun fact: According to most Liberals, the two (initial) photos of Iraqis being abused in Abu Gharud (Sp?) prison were enough to set off a massive shit-fight over human rights abuses..
HOWEVER!
Finding two shells filled with WMD (Sarin gas and Mustard gas) are NOT definate proof that Saddam lied about having destroyed all of his WMD??
What's the odds those shells were randomly pulled from a big ol' pile of Artillery shells and "just happening to be" the only ones containing WMD...??
...and that Saddam claimed had all been destroyed anyhow...???
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Blah blah blah Callalron blah blah blah...
And the reason you don't like political threads is probably because fenderheads like yourself make pithy comments like "OH HOE! HOW DAER HE?! instead of adding anything constructive. So sit down, have a tall, frosty glass of Shut The Fuck Up, and the let people who actually have something worthwhile to say, say it.
Sorry I didn't phrase it like Joojoo, Abbi, or Drysart did. HEAVEN FORBIDELOLZ 
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Drysart had this to say about the Spice Girls:
Besides, what does that have to do with his supposed indecisiveness? Sounds like he's consistently liberal --- which is quite the opposite of flip-flopping.
I am ashamed that I missed such an obvious point of logic. I'm slipping.
That's a very good point, and well worth considering.
