My theory applies to most of life and is based primarily on natural selection: the strong survive and the weak fail. Now, this isn't purely natural; I don't mean that we should be beating and eating each other, but strength comes in many different forms.
The strongest, fastest athlete will win the competition.
The smartest, quickest-witted student will get the highest score on the test.
The cleverest, most charismatic person will win the girl's affections.
Thus, when I hear people complaining or whining about whatever, there are two solutions that come to mind. 1) Become the strongest, fastest or whatever you need to be to win. 2) Move to where you ARE the strongest, fastest, etc.
If one solution is not viable, the other usually is.
A thread I'll use for an example is diadem's about racism. How do you succeed when you're persecuted against because of your race? Move to where your race is accepted. Either that, or put up an overwhelming show of strength.
No philosophy can be that simple, and there's probably some subtleties I'm leaving out, but that's my philosophy in a nutshell: the strong survive and nature weeds out the weak.
Let's hear some thoughts.
In the wilds, if a baby aminal is born retarded or stupid, then they become fresh meat for the next highest thing on the food chain. Thus, nature has control over breeding.
However, when a particularly idiotic human is born, they are spared from such a fate by government regulations prohibiting people from destroying the stupid. Usually in the form of warning labels that would prevent idiots (In all but the most extreme cases) from being able to remove themselves from the gene pool.
Therefor, I propose we remove all warning labels from all products, and leave the rest up to nature herself. Those with the intelligence not to blowdry their hair in the shower, stick their hand in the moving bits of the snowblower/lawnmower/other large machine with really sharp moving bits, or exhibit other traits of idiocy that would prove fatal in the wilds, will be gone within a decade.
Somthor would be gone within a couple short weeks.
My plan is perfect.
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When the babel fish was in place, it was apparent King Parcelan said:
I thought I'd use this fine day to explain an outlook I've had for a long time and see what discussion or fights spawned from it.My theory applies to most of life and is based primarily on natural selection: the strong survive and the weak fail. Now, this isn't purely natural; I don't mean that we should be beating and eating each other, but strength comes in many different forms.
The strongest, fastest athlete will win the competition.
The smartest, quickest-witted student will get the highest score on the test.
The cleverest, most charismatic person will win the girl's affections.
Thus, when I hear people complaining or whining about whatever, there are two solutions that come to mind. 1) Become the strongest, fastest or whatever you need to be to win. 2) Move to where you ARE the strongest, fastest, etc.
If one solution is not viable, the other usually is.
A thread I'll use for an example is diadem's about racism. How do you succeed when you're persecuted against because of your race? Move to where your race is accepted. Either that, or put up an overwhelming show of strength.
No philosophy can be that simple, and there's probably some subtleties I'm leaving out, but that's my philosophy in a nutshell: the strong survive and nature weeds out the weak.
Let's hear some thoughts.
In purely competitive settings such as those you described it ideally does work that way, often however the athlete with the better sponsor wins the competition, the student with the PTA president mother gets the best grade and the guy with a massive ton of money gets the girl.
Not all problems people complain about boil down to them not being strong / smart / fast enough, the most frustrating ones are those comepletely beyond your control. If a tsunami decides to tear down your house there's no realistic amount of strength or speed that could save you an immense heap of problems.
You should be weary of discarding people as dumb or weak and thus worthless too quickly based on their achievements, a big part of those is not only ability but also opportunity. Some guy working a low-prestige accounting job may have made a great mathematician had he not been forced to support his family from age 18 and there are probably a bunch of potentially great writers / scientists / leaders that starve to death or get shot through no fault of their own in some African hellhole every decade.
I disagree with your take on racism, all the black / hispanic / jewish / whatever people coming together in little isolated communities will only compound the problem in the long run, their isolation will only support the rest of the population in their belief that they are alien and different in a negative way.
Edit: Could we please have a thread for once that is not about Somthor, I know he's the punching bag of the hour but every fifth thread degenerating into "Somthor is dumb, lol" is getting really annoying. [ 02-06-2004: Message edited by: Shazorx / Modrakien ]
But anyways, I see wealth and connections as another part of strength. If you've got the money to get the girl, you were still stronger than the guy with charisma. The stronger still won.
And I also feel that opportunity should be made. In certain occasions, one can afford to wait for an opportunity to stumble along. But in other cases, and depending on the person, an opportunity must be made.
While Khyron and Mightion are content to whine about how their job sucks and nothing's better, they're still getting paid. I, am not, and so I'm always searching for a better job than what I have (nothing) even though there are few possibilities available.
And of course it works in certain situations. If there was one all-encompassing solution or philosophy in all situations, we'd all be quite well-to-do 
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A_Blindy_005 spewed forth this undeniable truth:
While you're right that either becoming better or leaving would solve problems, that doesn't always mean it's the best solution.
Agreed.
Though sometimes showing overwhelming strength can lead to other people being worried about your sudden gathering of strength. Look at the Nazi party before the second world war.
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Lechium had this to say about Robocop:
Agreed.Though sometimes showing overwhelming strength can lead to other people being worried about your sudden gathering of strength. Look at the Nazi party before the second world war.
The downfall of the Nazi party was also due, in part, to the fact that Hitler sort of went to war with everyone. He was defeated; he was not the strongest.
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From the book of King Parcelan, chapter 3, verse 16:
The downfall of the Nazi party was also due, in part, to the fact that Hitler sort of went to war with everyone. He was defeated; he was not the strongest.
Very true, and the fact that he was ridiculously idiodic. Especially after he decied that Africa was remotely unimportant and was no longer worth fighting for.
But the point that I was trying to get at was before the war while he was gaining power, he made many world leaders very nervous. If people begin to gain strength, there will always people around that will try and subdue that strength.
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King Parcelan thought about the meaning of life:
I didn't start this thread about Somthor and I'm more than a little tired about dwelling on him. But it's a flame thread, so what can you do.But anyways, I see wealth and connections as another part of strength. If you've got the money to get the girl, you were still stronger than the guy with charisma. The stronger still won.
And I also feel that opportunity should be made. In certain occasions, one can afford to wait for an opportunity to stumble along. But in other cases, and depending on the person, an opportunity must be made.
While Khyron and Mightion are content to whine about how their job sucks and nothing's better, they're still getting paid. I, am not, and so I'm always searching for a better job than what I have (nothing) even though there are few possibilities available.
And of course it works in certain situations. If there was one all-encompassing solution or philosophy in all situations, we'd all be quite well-to-do
The Somthor thing wasn't directed at you, should have made that clear.
What I was getting at was that not everyone starts on equal footing, others could be just as talented and have to invest a massive amount of effort to only get to where another, less talented person started, they have to invest a good amount of work to create opportunities for themselves while others can get right into exploiting them. . [ 02-06-2004: Message edited by: Shazorx / Modrakien ]
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This insanity brought to you by Lechium:
Very true, and the fact that he was ridiculously idiodic. Especially after he decied that Africa was remotely unimportant and was no longer worth fighting for.But the point that I was trying to get at was before the war while he was gaining power, he made many world leaders very nervous. If people begin to gain strength, there will always people around that will try and subdue that strength.
And then it will be a true test of strength whether or not that strength can grow. If that strength is deferred, then you clearly aren't strong enough.
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When the babel fish was in place, it was apparent Lechium said:
Very true, and the fact that he was ridiculously idiodic. Especially after he decied that Africa was remotely unimportant and was no longer worth fighting for.But the point that I was trying to get at was before the war while he was gaining power, he made many world leaders very nervous. If people begin to gain strength, there will always people around that will try and subdue that strength.
Actually many in the west were rather fond of Hitler's efforts at first, seeing him as a good buffer against Stalin in case he were to try and violently expand, they even let him annex a bunch of countries without a fight before war broke out. [ 02-06-2004: Message edited by: Shazorx / Modrakien ]
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Shazorx / Modrakien had this to say about Captain Planet:
The Somthor thing wasn't directed at you, should have made that clear.What I was getting at was that not everyone starts on equal footing, others could be just as talented and have to invest a massive amount of effort to only get to where another, less talented person started, they have to invest a good amount of work to create opportunities for themselves while others can get right into exploiting them. .
Which is sort of a concept of "inherited strength." I believe that your bloodlines, connections, or what have you are a form of strength itself. As I said before.
For example, my mother is an author. As a somewhat aspiring author, I already have connections, potential agents, editors and what have you. It's an incredible advantage for an author, and I have no qualms with using that advantage to further myself.
Now, am I a bad author? I don't think so. But say another author and I are offered the same deal. I have the connections, but if the other author has the better talent, I can't do shit. I wasn't strong enough.
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Shazorx / Modrakien stopped staring at Deedlit long enough to write:
Actually many in the west were rather fond of Hitler's efforts at first, seeing him as a good buffer against Stalin in case he were to try and violently expand, they even let him annex a bunch of countries without a fight before war broke out.
Yes, but they were merely trying to appease him at first, and hoped that he would not continue with his campaign.
But its a good thing he didn't have the strength he thought he had.
Writing this all of a sudden made me remember the episode of Family Guy where they showed hitler in a gym all scrawny looking, and the Jewish man with three women around him who was all buff and laughing at hitler. Hitler was just a pansy with ignorant motivations. [ 02-06-2004: Message edited by: Lechium ]
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Verily, Lechium doth proclaim:
Yes, but they were merely trying to appease him at first, and hoped that he would not continue with his campaign.But its a good thing he didn't have the strength he thought he had.
Writing this all of a sudden made me remember the episode of Family Guy where they showed hitler in a gym all scrawny looking, and the Jewish man with three women around him who was all buff and laughing at hitler. Hitler was just a pansy with ignorant motivations.
He did have a lot of military strength, he was kinda lacking in the brain department though, this in addition to refusing to let his generals fight the war as they thought was best led him to lose.
And that image isn't that far off the truth, Hitler blamed his problems in finding a job and general failures in his early career on the Jew man keeping him down.
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Verily, Leopold, the Voice of Reason doth proclaim:
I'm curious, Parce: how do you connect the idea of wealth/positioning in our society as a facet of natural selection?
Because, as I said before, we are not savage animals in the wilderness. We are still animals, but we are different kinds of animals in a different kind of wilderness. For this reason, we follow a different set of rules.
A corporation, or business, is part of our wilderness. Let's say there are two businesses coming up, both of them providing the same product in the same area. This is extraneous and unnecessary. So, which survives?
They both have business skills. But one has connections and money. They were the stronger, they will survive longer. The weaker company goes out of business.
Something within it doesn't sit right with me, but I can't really argue it; I think it's more of an intrinsic moral value than a part of logic. I salute you for giving me one of the only interesting philosophical quandaries I've had in months.
(im a huge minority so stfu) i think that there are stereotypes for a reason...there has to be enough people of a certain genre acting the way they do for stereotypes to come about; however, people often forget that stereotypes doesn't include everyone in that genre..its just saying most
thought id say that 
Yesterday in my Politcal Sciences class we were simulating a Canadian Election with 5 Canadian Factions: The Liberals(10 people), The Conservitives(7 people), The Democracts(5), The French(4), and Other(1)
We voted and the parliment was a 9,5,3,1,0 split.
Canadia has a plurity system, so whoever has the most votes, even if it isnt a majority, wins.
He tells us to go talk amongst ourselves.
The liberal group has an easy time, they have half the votes, so I go up to them before talking to my group or anything like that and agree to an 80/20 power split.
We didnt have the power, but we had the speed(or quick wits) to get a partial victory.
This is worth expouding upon parce, your an author, publish this!(your thoughts, not my stupid little story.
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Lady Delirium had this to say about Robocop:
yeah i can agree with you parce(im a huge minority so stfu) i think that there are stereotypes for a reason...there has to be enough people of a certain genre acting the way they do for stereotypes to come about; however, people often forget that stereotypes doesn't include everyone in that genre..its just saying most
thought id say that
I think your general idea here is right, but stereotypes seem to die a lot slower than the actual attitudes/appearance/whatever of the group being represented by them, which is where the real problem lies. (and they don't apply to everybody, no.)
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King Parcelan had this to say about dark elf butts:
A corporation, or business, is part of our wilderness. Let's say there are two businesses coming up, both of them providing the same product in the same area. This is extraneous and unnecessary. So, which survives?They both have business skills. But one has connections and money. They were the stronger, they will survive longer. The weaker company goes out of business.
Explain why Apple is still around. 
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Sarudani Miolnir stumbled drunkenly to the keyboard and typed:
Explain why Apple is still around.
Flukes happen. Nothing is exact.
It's still possible for a caribou to die of old age, rather than predation or disease.
In any case, humans are social by nature. Nature is cold, unfeeling, and a thing. Though you can have a darwinist view of humanity, the “strength” you speak of is too reliant on too many factors to be considered an entity of itself. It can be luck or simple numbers. People can be born without an option to succeed, no matter how perfect they are in every regards. They can also be born to die.
The strong surviving implies that in every generation, humanity grows a little stronger. I do not agree with this. The lame could be born with the “strength” of the masses backing them, large finances, or simply have a stroke of luck that would allow them to survive and breed.
More importantly, there is no real way to judge human merit or worth. To do so would create many moral implications and the creation of a “super race” would collapse on itself because of its lack of diversity both socially and biologically. Besides, survival and reproduction aside, it's very diffuclt to define success.
IÂ’d say human nature is more stagnant than anything else. It isnÂ’t a Darwinist world (evolving), socially. Take a look at ancient roman texts. Their society faced similar problems as we do today. Adults bitching about the younger generation being the downfall of society, and the like.
My view is that there are a small amount of capable people helping society as a whole survive. Most people are incompetent or contribute very little. It is the talents of the few that keep us going.
Take a look at Brave New World. That’s my view of what the world is becoming. The weak or the strong don’t die off – they are codependent.
Your ideas about the “strong” surviving are too general to have any flaws, but I do believe they are missing a few important points.
Note – my current views can be skewed by my environment, so I am open to any corrections to my statements. Please provided reasoning for your comments. Note 2: If you haven’t read Brave New World yet, do so. I’m quite sure you will enjoy the book thoroughly
Note 3: Summary - Survival of the fittest implys that society gets stronger from every generation. This is not the case. Human nature does not change. [ 02-06-2004: Message edited by: diadem ]
you may have a lack of mores that the rest of your group adhere to the freedom of being outside may let you do things that they cant and thus prosper.
how about being a total leper, that isn't the best thing to be but since no one will touch you for fear of catching your leprosy you can act in ways healthy men cant.
maybe you get a gang of person who are all downtrodden and outcast and angry individually you are weak but together you are strong you can then intimidate the rest of the alphas into submission.
don't forget about luck, it will get you farther than skill or talent ever will.
now look at me, for the most part people here say im a idiot have no skills no talent etc etc etc. Yet somehow I'm still alive and doing exceedingly well. call it dumb luck or its a big unfair world but I am doing better than half of you are and with less effort than those of you who are smarter, have more talent, people skills etc etc. [ 02-06-2004: Message edited by: Somthor ]
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Somthor wrote this stupid crap:
now look at me, for the most part people here say im a idiot have no skills no talent etc etc etc. Yet somehow I'm still alive and doing exceedingly well. call it dumb luck or its a big unfair world but I am doing better than half of you are and with less effort than those of you who are smarter, have more talent, people skills etc etc.
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Explain why Apple is still around.
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Flukes happen. Nothing is exact.
Companions, the creator seeketh, and fellow-reapers: for
everything is ripe for the harvest with him. But he lacketh the
hundred sickles: so he plucketh the ears of corn and is vexed.
Companions, the creator seeketh, and such as know how to whet
their sickles. Destroyers, will they be called, and despisers of
good and evil. But they are the reapers and rejoicers.
Fellow-creators, Zarathustra seeketh; fellow-reapers and
fellow-rejoicers, Zarathustra seeketh: what hath he to do with herds
and herdsmen and corpses!
-Friedrich Nietzsche, Thus Spoke Zarathustra.
[ 02-06-2004: Message edited by: Pvednes ]
it DOes art, music drafting related things better than most other things availible at the time. It was cheaper. At some point Apple decided to offer its product at greatly reduced costs to schools. the long term effect for a long time most schools used Macs and when kids needed a computer their parents bought them a apple to use becuse no handy emulator was widely availible. A generation grew up with apples and some stuck to them. Apple found its nitch. and the market share it had while not hte biggest was sufficent for it to carry on til this very day.
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Alek Saege stopped staring at Deedlit long enough to write:
Its silly to say that you want to get rid of less able people. Take a herd of cows for example. The ones in the center are usually more safe from wolves than the ones at the edge, thus the ones at the edge will suffer from a disaster before the center ones. Applying that concept in society... we need cannon fodder for our armies (sorry for the blunt example, I hope you get the point). We can't have a society of purely elite executives, athletes, etcetera. We "protect" those that are less able because to a point the more able need them as much as they need us.
Of course I agree that there will be the weak. For there to be strong people, you require weak people.
The basis of this argument is that there are people that can become strong and that the strong will succeed while the weak do not.
The fastest athlete will win, but the slowest athlete will lose. See?
I'm not advocating the culling of all weak people so that there are only the strong. I'm saying that the weak will be naturally placed at the back.
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Somthor's account was hax0red to write:
It was cheaper.
The only thing accurate in that entire bit was about school donations, but you do realise that was on a federal grant prodject, and not a cheap one I might add. The schools didn't pay for them, and Apple didn't skimp out on the cost. Apple's were only ever cheap before Win3.1 really hit it big.
Also, slightly close, but not entirely accurate, is the art end. Apple has a larger share, but not due to power, it's due to familiarity and because Apple has thier hands in one of the most prestigous art swuites, being Adobe. . Most high end applications of this market use neither the normal PC architecture OR Apple's.
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Somthor stopped staring at Deedlit long enough to write:
parce what if the 2nd and third fastest runners decide to block and then trip the fastest? he wont win then will he?
You're missing one of the more prominent arguments of this theory: strength comes in many different forms. Though I said the fastest athlete would win, it's entirely possible that the strongest athlete will.
In your example, the strongest athlete would be the one with the most cunning to trip up the other athlete. He would then win because the other athlete didn't think of it, first. But say the fastest athlete is so fast that the other athletes can't catch up to trip him. He would win, then.
So the basis of the argument: strength is not purely physical, but the one best suited to win will do so.
Some of the strongest people I know are military. It takes a certain amount of courage that not all people have, in order to fulfill those vows.
I am sure that you didn't mean what you said, and that you were just throwing out an example.
other contestants who are of lessor ability may band together to eliminate the strongest threat first. that wont make them better nor smart just more determined. the best athelite may win but all the losers may say he cheated and steal the victory away.
I guess the best way to say it is scum like cream also rises to the top.
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King Parcelan's fortune cookie read:
You are missing my main argument, still. I suggest you go back and review what I was talking about when I said "strength is not purely physical."
I was responding to your last statement
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So the basis of the argument: strength is not purely physical, but the one best suited to win will do so.
unless you are saying that if you win you are then automaticly the best suited person. as long as there is a X factor that can never be 100% true.
The best suited person always wins. TRUE
you are not the best suited person. TRUE
the best suited person has unforceable accident and looses TRUE
you win TRUE
The best suitable person won FALSE
___________________________________________________________________
true + true + true + true + false = FALSE
I think the better statement of what you are trying to say would be this.
survival of the fittest describes the fittest as those who will leave the most offspring, (are successful ) Fitness is not a physical feature that can created, but a description of how successful a particular organism is in passing along its genes (winning) under a certain set of circumstances and in relation to others. [ 02-07-2004: Message edited by: Somthor ]
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King Parcelan's unholy Backstreet Boys obsession manifested in:
Of course I agree that there will be the weak. For there to be strong people, you require weak people.The basis of this argument is that there are people that can become strong and that the strong will succeed while the weak do not.
The fastest athlete will win, but the slowest athlete will lose. See?
I'm not advocating the culling of all weak people so that there are only the strong. I'm saying that the weak will be naturally placed at the back.
I agree with you, my reply was directed mostly at Khyron's first post about warning labels. Sorry, I should have quoted him instead. I don't even know why I quoted you. 
I don't know if this concept has any true value. On the surface it seems like a grand idea, but when you look at it in a slightly differant light it merely is stating a fact. To the winner of the struggle go the spoils. If you win because you happen to be in the right place and the right time, so be it. You had the presence to show up. That was always a motto of my coaches. The first step to being a winner is showing up.
I was going to type more but I started rambling, so I think I'll just call it here. Oh and Somthor go stick your head in a blender.
The game doesn't change, only the scale of the arena.
sigpic courtesy of This Guy, original modified by me
