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Topic: Natural selection
Pvednes
Lynched
posted 02-07-2004 05:41:08 AM
I would definatly disagree with the proposal that we're no longer under selection pressures. It's simply not the case. Many, though, are much more subtle than who gets eaten by the predator; they can be as subtle as economic stability, or the lack of it. There are some that are very much as obvious as predation, such as who gets killed by the incurable illness and who does not, so on and so forth.
Majox
Pancake
posted 02-07-2004 05:45:37 AM
I think the main problem is most people's definition of natural selection. "Fittest" doesn't mean strongest, fastest, winner of this race, or that contest. Biologicaly speaking it is only talking about promoting one's own genetic code.

Superman can run around the world as many times as he wants, jump over buildings, and have sex with a hundred women, but if he's impotent, he is a failure of natural selection. (I have no idea if Superman can really have kids or not.)

Speaking about racism. In a situation where one group is oppressing another group, assuming the oppressors are only breeding with each other, and the people being oppressed are breeding with at least each other, and at best people from other groups (ie. other oppresed groups) then they are becoming more advanced genetically, then the other group.

Interesting to think about, and that doesn't promote racism, but that the race, as a whole, will be evolving faster, than an inbred group of oppresors.

I just make ideas, I don't make them good. - Me
Pvednes
Lynched
posted 02-07-2004 05:59:49 AM
Biologically speaking, there's only one surviving subspecies (race) of humans, the Modern Human, or homo sapiens sapiens. All racist ideologies are flawed for that very reason. (Aside from the very numerous other reasons that they're flawed, of course.) We're a very undiverse species, in terms of variation.

[ 02-07-2004: Message edited by: Pvednes ]

Nirrudn
Pancake
posted 02-07-2004 07:09:32 AM
This is relevant I guess. I'm sure some of you have seen it at least:

http://www.darwinawards.com/

So the weak/stupid (mostly the latter) do indeed sometimes get removed from the gene pool.

diadem
eet bugz
posted 02-07-2004 07:41:53 AM
I still say judging one "strong" or "weak" is too ambiguous. Your statement can be simplified down to "some people succeed and some people don't." Success itself is a relative term. You are calling whatever methods are used to reach whatever arbitrary goals you have in mind as strength. In its simplicity, there is no real fault to it, but it is missing quite a few important points.

[ 02-07-2004: Message edited by: diadem ]

play da best song in da world or me eet your soul
diadem
eet bugz
posted 02-07-2004 08:02:26 AM
quote:
Naimah impressed everyone with:
When you line up in the starting blocks one man is not declared the greatest before the starting gun.


Though I understand your analogy, it is flawed. Life is not a race. There is no goal other than to reproduce and survive, and for some, that is not even their end goal.

As for races, when most of our competition went up against my team in highschool, it was over before it began. We simply don't lose. Most of our competition was simply out of their league. They didn't have the training, physical strength or endurance, mental willpower, or sense of whits (which is important - it's part of why we always won) to beat us. Even before the gun is shot, there is no question who will win or lose. The reason for this is that this is a physical challenge with set factors and limited variables.

The thing is; that was a physical race for a specific aspect of being. During a race, there are a set number of factors and a pre-determined goal. Life is not like this. People are not even competing against each other. Because of this, comparing a race to succeeding in life is not fully accurate.

Survival of the fittest would at least imply a sort of goal to reach and some sort of competition. The playing field is not set, and there is no universal goal. The factors that enter the race are almost infinite, an unlike a physical challenge the ideology of those around you are extremely important for "success." "Success" in itself is even a vairable, and diffrent for every player.


What corollary I can give parce is simply this "People's environment effects one's behavior and ability to reach certain goals in life, if such goals exist. People need to change the environment around them, adapt to it, move to a more suitable environment, or find a new set of goals if they wish to overcome obsticles."

[ 02-07-2004: Message edited by: diadem ]

play da best song in da world or me eet your soul
 
can you please fix my title
posted 02-07-2004 09:02:06 AM
quote:
Somthor enlisted the help of an infinite number of monkeys to write:

I think the better statement of what you are trying to say would be this.

survival of the fittest describes the fittest as those who will leave the most offspring, (are successful ) Fitness is not a physical feature that can created, but a description of how successful a particular organism is in passing along its genes (winning) under a certain set of circumstances and in relation to others.


sorry parce this is the best I can come up with, I guess I'm missing the point.

Im confused as always[xIMG]http://img.villagephotos.com/p/2003-8/356687/somthorsig3.JPG[/img]
King Parcelan
Chicken of the Sea
posted 02-07-2004 10:25:04 AM
It's cool. Feel free to continue to discuss this, but I am gracefully stepping out now.

I killed far too many brain cells last night and argument tends to make me sick.

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