To own the mech that is. [ 09-04-2003: Message edited by: nem-x³ ]
My Uncle Leo was a proud veteran of two world wars, but was deported to Canada for not giving up his engineering marvel. We never knew anything about it, but it was enough to get the military on his case.
I swear, I love this country, but sometimes it's so hard...
Have to think ahead!
And was your cousin Jeffrey involved? I know he shaped up Central Park....
Thinking about your posts
(and billing you for it) since 2001
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Channeling the spirit of Sherlock Holmes, Kennatsu absently fondled Watson and proclaimed:
Suppose you invent a fantastic machine (like a Veritech) in your own garage using your own time, money, and resources and the military forces of your country get wind of it after you've tested it to see if it worked. Will they swoop down onto your house and take that machine from you (along with the blueprints, notes, and computer files related to it) and kidnap you as well?
It would depend upon the country in which you lived.
In the United States: no.
--Satan, quoted by John Milton
I'd hedge a bet that they would pay you exceedingly well (Or at least offer to, at any rate) before they siezed anything.
Still, look at clockstoppers, the movie. If you had developed a peice of technology that could allow one man to destroy an entire nation and have no-one ever know it was them, yeah, the government wants it. Especially if said device could be sold on the black market to the highest bidder, or if they even suspect so.
Besides, if you develop veritech-ish technology (Or something as powerful) in your basement, you have more to worry about then the government. Like, how your brain isn't fucking exploding from all the stuff in it.
Edit: People might say that it's a bad thing, but at least the government has the personell and experience nessicary in order to use it responsibly, instead of willy-nilly. [ 09-04-2003: Message edited by: Delphi Aegis ]
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Over the mountain, in between the ups and downs, I ran into Cool Hand Luke who doth quote:
You can't trust Bloodsage. He's one of them.
He's right, though. Civilian agencies develop plans for advanced weapons of war all the time. They just usually end up selling to the US government because they're the biggest buyer at the moment.
In the case of VERY advanced weapons of war - things that might tip the balance of power in the world - you might be prevented from selling to anyone else as an act of treason, but if the US government wants it they will still have to buy it from you. [ 09-05-2003: Message edited by: Maradon! ]
No if your developing some sort of massive roving hand of god death and destruction sort of machine, I bet there is a good chance your breaking a shit load of federal laws and might get the ATF among many other knocking at your doors. Plus it wouldn't be the Military taking it, it would be some sort of law enforcement agency, unless I am mistaking what your thinking of would be considered law enforcement which I don't believe the military can do.
Besides what good is a Veritech? Giant robo suit would be easy pray in the modern battlefield. Now if you could make something like a gear and have it cost about say about 1/5 what a Humvee costs, then maybe you can get someone to buy it.
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Led had this to say about the Spice Girls:
They damn well better get started on inventing mecha, because I wanna stomp around in one at least once before I kick off
Sadly I doubt it will happen, but if it did it would be something small like a gear, or closer to RAH Powered armor. I thought about this one day:
If you made small one like Gears, they would be only work if they were dirt cheap to make. Mecha would have to replace infantry, so you have to have cheap units that can be massed produced and be simple to use. You could never mount up enough armor on them to equal that of a tank, and a tank can still be easily taking out by a cheap shaped charge RPG. Plus they could really never mount weapons on par with a tank. There might be a chance they could fill in an inbetween roll that Hummers and Bradleys fill now, cept you loose the versatility Hummers and Bradleys have. I could see them deployed as heavy armored units for use in urban CQB cause they would have much more maneuverability than tank would in that situation.
The other way with Huge ass ones like Gundams or Battlemechs will never fly unless they find some sort of Buck Rogers way to do it. They surely could be big enough to mount the armor needed and weapons to replace costly tanks, cept guided missiles would eat them up for breakfast, lunch and dinner. So unless they discover the Minovsky Particle, no chance to ever see a big mech on the battlefield.
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Led had this to say about Matthew Broderick:
They damn well better get started on inventing mecha, because I wanna stomp around in one at least once before I kick off
If I remember correctly, Japan already has an independently walking robot that can climb stairs. That's a step closer to creating mecha.
I believe that any mecha that takes human form has a lot of military applications (as the human form is very versatile, I think). A Gear is essentially a walking tank (in my opinion) that isn't hampered by terrain. You can load heavy weapons onto a Gear and send it out; one Gear will probably cause massive destruction to several divisions of tanks before it runs out of ammo...
Just think "center of gravity," and you'll know why combat vehicles will never walk on two legs. And, no matter how many legs you give it to increase stability, the necessary articulation creates all sorts of exploitable weaknesses.
Multi-legged walking robots do have application in areas such as planetary exploration and perhaps EOD or reconnaissance. But they don't belong on a battlefield.
Hell, tanks don't really belong on a modern battlefield unless neither side has an air force.
--Satan, quoted by John Milton
But in normal battlefield situations there is no way a mecha would be superior to tanks.
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Bloodsage had this to say about John Romero:
Hate to interrupt the fantasizing, but mecha would last about 2 nanoseconds even on today's battlefield. It's a neat concept, but it only works in cartoons.Just think "center of gravity," and you'll know why combat vehicles will never walk on two legs. And, no matter how many legs you give it to increase stability, the necessary articulation creates all sorts of exploitable weaknesses.
Multi-legged walking robots do have application in areas such as planetary exploration and perhaps EOD or reconnaissance. But they don't belong on a battlefield.
Hell, tanks don't really belong on a modern battlefield unless neither side has an air force.
dude wtf you can take out enemmy towers with siege units!
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Laser weapons, for instance. It does not take any stretch of the imagination to realize that when they reach the proper level of development, an acquired air target is a DEAD target.
I have a Heavy Gear tech manual sitting around here somewheres that has a whole section devoted to explaining just how they manage to get along in the gameworld without getting smeared. 'Course, it is all just fiction, but the appeal of the Heavy Gear universe is its sideways advancement. Bipedal one man infantry fighting vehicles of the future of omg wow that run on ordinary gas, 'n crap like that 
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How.... Bloodsage.... uughhhhhh:
Hate to interrupt the fantasizing, but mecha would last about 2 nanoseconds even on today's battlefield. It's a neat concept, but it only works in cartoons.Just think "center of gravity," and you'll know why combat vehicles will never walk on two legs. And, no matter how many legs you give it to increase stability, the necessary articulation creates all sorts of exploitable weaknesses.
Multi-legged walking robots do have application in areas such as planetary exploration and perhaps EOD or reconnaissance. But they don't belong on a battlefield.
Hell, tanks don't really belong on a modern battlefield unless neither side has an air force.
Air... Force? What are you talking about? Man cannot fly. You are definitely a crazy one to think that man will ever be assisted by flight in combat.
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Verily, the chocolate bunny rabits doth run and play while Led gently hums:
Well, in modern tactical doctrine, you are perfectly correct, 'Sage. But who is to say there will not be an innovation which will completely destroy the current balance of power?Laser weapons, for instance. It does not take any stretch of the imagination to realize that when they reach the proper level of development, an acquired air target is a DEAD target.
I have a Heavy Gear tech manual sitting around here somewheres that has a whole section devoted to explaining just how they manage to get along in the gameworld without getting smeared. 'Course, it is all just fiction, but the appeal of the Heavy Gear universe is its sideways advancement. Bipedal one man infantry fighting vehicles of the future of omg wow that run on ordinary gas, 'n crap like that
Buck Rogers death ray aside, center of gravity considerations alone prohibit giant walking robots--especially two-legged ones. And, as I said in my earlier post, the number of articulations and servos necessary to make such a thing the least bit mobile (much less agile) would introduce so many vulnerable spots it wouldn't be worth it.
It's a neat idea, and it makes for cool games, but it's not practical in the real world of combat.
--Satan, quoted by John Milton
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Bloodsage had this to say about Optimus Prime:
Buck Rogers death ray aside, center of gravity considerations alone prohibit giant walking robots--especially two-legged ones. And, as I said in my earlier post, the number of articulations and servos necessary to make such a thing the least bit mobile (much less agile) would introduce so many vulnerable spots it wouldn't be worth it.It's a neat idea, and it makes for cool games, but it's not practical in the real world of combat.
...Technology advances Sage.
Seriously, open your mind a bit.
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OtakuPenguin had this to say about Duck Tales:
...Technology advances Sage.Seriously, open your mind a bit.
Technology can not override the basic laws of Nature.
As cool as the idea is I have to agree with Sage here..
I can see powersuits like in the Warhammer 40K universe or Battletech. But anything more than that is just a big target.
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OtakuPenguin got all f'ed up on Angel Dust and wrote:
...Technology advances Sage.Seriously, open your mind a bit.
Losing touch with reality does not equal opening your mind.
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Azizza wrote, obviously thinking too hard:
Technology can not override the basic laws of Nature.As cool as the idea is I have to agree with Sage here..
I can see powersuits like in the Warhammer 40K universe or Battletech. But anything more than that is just a big target.
Eh, yeah, but, look at the Gundam world, everything in the UC universe is explained so well. The backstory even explains the shift in Military Tactics.
They would work, I really beleive that.
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Azizza had this to say about Cuba:
Technology can not override the basic laws of Nature.
Sure it can. I JUST GOT AN IDEA!
We could solve the whole, "I'll fall over everytime I take a step and be a sitting duck" problem with one invention!
The INERTIAL COMPENSATOR! I mean, just open your mind, man! The Star Wars universe uses it so it's obviously possible.
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OtakuPenguin startled the peaceful upland Gorillas by blurting:
...Technology advances Sage.Seriously, open your mind a bit.
Damn--you're right. I'm such an idiot, thinking about stupid shit like the laws of physics.
I really hate it when some self-righteous geek, so immersed in bullshit fantasy he can't tell reality from anime, tells me I have a closed mind because I won't accept things that obviously violate basic physical laws or engineering principles. Same thing with morons who choose to believe in spirits, ghosts, ESP, and other assorted crap, whose only answer to reality is, "Well, they haven't been disproven. . . ."
Here's a concept: when I point out flaws in your favorite little fantasy, why don't you tell me how I screwed up my logic, physics, or engineering rather than airily telling me I haven't the imagination to hang in your little dream world?
Jeebus.
--Satan, quoted by John Milton
That's not even addressing the physics point of view on them. I think it might be possible to make a mech that could walk but it would have to take serious restrictions to mobility to keep from falling over in the wind or gunfire/explosions. [ 09-06-2003: Message edited by: Where's Waisz? ]
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Bloodsage had this to say about Duck Tales:
Damn--you're right. I'm such an idiot, thinking about stupid shit like the laws of physics.I really hate it when some self-righteous geek, so immersed in bullshit fantasy he can't tell reality from anime, tells me I have a closed mind because I won't accept things that obviously violate basic physical laws or engineering principles. Same thing with morons who choose to believe in spirits, ghosts, ESP, and other assorted crap, whose only answer to reality is, "Well, they haven't been disproven. . . ."
Here's a concept: when I point out flaws in your favorite little fantasy, why don't you tell me how I screwed up my logic, physics, or engineering rather than airily telling me I haven't the imagination to hang in your little dream world?
Jeebus.
No, I'm not gonna take that shit.
None of it is feasible, or possible NOW. But god damnit, planes weren't possible in the 1800s, right? Right?
Some asshole was probably sitting around in 1870 saying, "Well jeesh, why would we need something to fly around on the battelfield? No possible way it'll be useful, wings, and all that other stuff, man, the physics don't work"
But HEY, look at us now. What a concept.
Change and advancement? NAAAAH.
edit: It's SUCH bullshit to say something isn't possible at all. ANYTHING is possible with enough thought, design and technology.
So I stick to my statement. Open your fucking mind a bit. [ 09-06-2003: Message edited by: OtakuPenguin ]
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OtakuPenguin stumbled drunkenly to the keyboard and typed:
No, I'm not gonna take that shit.None of it is feasible, or possible NOW. But god damnit, planes weren't possible in the 1800s, right? Right?
Some asshole was probably sitting around in 1870 saying, "Well jeesh, why would we need something to fly around on the battelfield? No possible way it'll be useful, wings, and all that other stuff, man, the physics don't work"
But HEY, look at us now. What a concept.
Change and advancement? NAAAAH.
Change and Advancement usually means going for better things, buddy. You couldn't pay me to go out on a battlefield in a Mech because it would be a huge target. You could see them coming from miles away, where a tank is low to the ground and easier to hide. It is a neat idea, but simply not practical. The mechanics would be a pain in the ass and there is just no real advantages to them. Sorry.
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OtakuPenguin probably says this to all the girls:
No, I'm not gonna take that shit.None of it is feasible, or possible NOW. But god damnit, planes weren't possible in the 1800s, right? Right?
Some asshole was probably sitting around in 1870 saying, "Well jeesh, why would we need something to fly around on the battelfield? No possible way it'll be useful, wings, and all that other stuff, man, the physics don't work"
But HEY, look at us now. What a concept.
Change and advancement? NAAAAH.
Planes WERE possible at that time. The physics supported them. Materials were questionable but still they were possible.
These and things like space travel were thought by some to be impossible. Mainly because we didn't understand what was possible.
We didn't know why a lot of things worked. Now we do.
And we have a much larger understanding now about the basic laws of nature. Like the fact that something with a High CoG will fall on its face with a slight push. Much less a High velocity shell fired from a tank.
We could possibly overcome the mobility and agility issues in time. however we can not overcome the laws of nature. And what advantage does a Mech offer over a normal tank? Mobility? No not really. A tracked or multi wheeled vehichle is extremely mobile? Fear? Perhaps. That is until they see one fall down and act like a turle placed on his back.
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Azizza wrote this then went back to looking for porn:
Planes WERE possible at that time. The physics supported them. Materials were questionable but still they were possible.
These and things like space travel were thought by some to be impossible. Mainly because we didn't understand what was possible.
We didn't know why a lot of things worked. Now we do.
And we have a much larger understanding now about the basic laws of nature. Like the fact that something with a High CoG will fall on its face with a slight push. Much less a High velocity shell fired from a tank.We could possibly overcome the mobility and agility issues in time. however we can not overcome the laws of nature. And what advantage does a Mech offer over a normal tank? Mobility? No not really. A tracked or multi wheeled vehichle is extremely mobile? Fear? Perhaps. That is until they see one fall down and act like a turle placed on his back.
Um, mobility is a huge advantage. Those things can dart around so damn fast.
And look at Veritechs, they can change from Maneuvarable Jets to Mecha.
Until then, STFU.
If all you've got is a snivelling admonition to open my mind in lieu of answering any of the valid considerations I've mentioned, you should dress up as your favorite Sailor Moon variation, go back to your gang of out-of-touch anime junkies, and continue your little games of make-believe.
You're getting pretty sad, OP; normally you've got a brain. Now you sound like a kid who's just been told there's no Santa Claus.
Jeebus.
--Satan, quoted by John Milton
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OtakuPenguin had this to say about Robocop:
No, I'm not gonna take that shit.None of it is feasible, or possible NOW. But god damnit, planes weren't possible in the 1800s, right? Right?
Some asshole was probably sitting around in 1870 saying, "Well jeesh, why would we need something to fly around on the battelfield? No possible way it'll be useful, wings, and all that other stuff, man, the physics don't work"
There is evidence that as early as 1000 BC the Chinese were using giant kites(for lack of a better term!) with men strapped on them to scout enemy troops across the battlefield. By the 1300s the Chinese were beyond a doubt using the aformentioned "kites". Leonardo de Vinci drew up the first plans for a flying machine in the 1400s. Some guy flew a glider in Italy in the 1600s. In the 1700s the Montgolfier brothers flew the first hot air baloon. The first steam powered airship is flown in 1850something. In 1903, the Wright Brothers make their first manned flight in an airplane, though it only lasted about 120 feet.
So by your own reasoning, we still have a few thousand years before a man can take their first step in a mech.
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Verily, the chocolate bunny rabits doth run and play while OtakuPenguin gently hums:
Um, mobility is a huge advantage. Those things can dart around so damn fast.And look at Veritechs, they can change from Maneuvarable Jets to Mecha.
You've never had to maintain an insanely complicated piece of machinery, have you? Or had to trust your life to one it combat.
And, hate to break it to you again, but most of the transformers violate all sorts of conservation of mass laws. Not to mention the fact that it's probably both cheaper and more practical to built separate airborne and flying things than to put up with the nightmare that would be something that tried to do both.
Sorry--there's no Easter Bunney, either.
--Satan, quoted by John Milton
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Bloodsage had this to say about Captain Planet:
You've never had to maintain an insanely complicated piece of machinery, have you? Or had to trust your life to one it combat.And, hate to break it to you again, but most of the transformers violate all sorts of conservation of mass laws. Not to mention the fact that it's probably both cheaper and more practical to built separate airborne and flying things than to put up with the nightmare that would be something that tried to do both.
Sorry--there's no Easter Bunney, either.
Dude, open your mind a bit, we all know you're just rambling "scientific" bullshit, or maybe basing your argument solely on the studies that speak in your argument's favor. We all know it's possible to find a study to prove or disprove anything. The advantages of the easter bunny are fucking awesome. Seriously, it's a bunny that manages to place eggs all over the world in a single night. Can we say, "New postal system"?. Or hell, if you want to put it in a military context, think "Resupplying the front lines"! You have to see the possibilities here. Be a bit less negative! [ 09-06-2003: Message edited by: Zaza ]
