After several long hours of discussion, they came to the conclusion that unless I:

Y'know, I'd love to say "Get the hell out of there", if only it was that easy. Don't ya just hate religious brainwash?

Maradon's been smacked down in yet another whinefest?

Sorry, couldn't resist.

The fact is, though, that they can't make you convert your beliefs. Anyone who says that saying words make truth obviously hasn't ever heard anything regarding politicians.

Interesting fact: In Roman times, when Christianity was considered a dangerous government-threatening cult, they'd root out suspected Christians by bringing them into a room with a Lictor and several armed Legionnaires and ask them to kindly pledge allegiance to Rome and sacrifice a little conveniently-provided incense to the popular Roman Government-supported gods.

A lot of Christians didn't, and those Legionnaires would promptly drag the person off to prison, where their fate was to be fed to the lions or killed however else fancied the Romans at the time...in the arena.

Point I'm trying to make is...If you believe, then no matter what happens, you'll stick to those beliefs. If you don't, then it may be better to pretend you do and keep true to your heart, lest ye be served up to the metaphorical lions.

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Ja'Deth Issar Ka'bael thought this was the Ricky Martin Fan Club Forum and wrote:
Point I'm trying to make is...If you believe, then no matter what happens, you'll stick to those beliefs. If you don't, then it may be better to pretend you do and keep true to your heart, lest ye be served up to the metaphorical lions.

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That's precisely what I'm planning to do.

They'll drag me to church. They'll hear the hollow, meaningless chatechisms come out of me, but my beliefs won't change in the slightest.

The thing is I just can't believe my parents would be that way. It's like they're saying that my wellfare isn't as important to them as it is to keep thier beliefs from being compromised .

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Maradön? had this to say about Reading Rainbow:
The thing is I just can't believe my parents would be that way. It's like they're saying that my wellfare isn't as important to them as it is to keep thier beliefs from being compromised .

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Don't forget, they may think that they are saving your soul. Once you realize that, you can see that they would go to some fairly drastic measures to get what they want.

They could make your life hell, but for your own good. (their logic, not mine)

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Palador ChibiDragon had this to say about Tron:
Don't forget, they may think that they are saving your soul.

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Yeah, that's the facade on it anyway.

You stick to your beliefs.

I told my folks the same thing once. They didnt take it so hot.

Basically, I say nothing, they say nothing and whether I agree with them is rather ambiguous.

If elderly family members ask, I just lie. No sense in getting my christian grandmother worked up. In your case, Im basically telling you to lie to your parents.

Now, I realize that this is asking you to compromise your beliefs in a way, but frankly, if I had to pick between pretending and having a roof or staying strong and having nothing, well Im keeping my roof.

The call is yours of course and I wish you luck. Standing up against christians (no offense guys) can be hard. We're a minority and they're taught to witness to us.

Good luck.

But, Mara, stick up for your beliefs.

Push comes to shove, tell em that what they are doing is against your constitutional rights.

"Yah, your right, but by golly its my house and YOU don't have to be in it!"

Technically, and I'm willing to bet the courts would agree, they aren't doing anything unconstitutional by telling him to get out of their house. It's their home. If they don't want an unbeliever in their house, thats their choice. Now, if you tell him to get out of the town/city/state, then your dealing with persecution.

Maradon you are an adult, and you have the basic right to choose your own religious beliefs. Your parents know this, even if they don't want to admit that it is the truth.

I would strongly suggest you stick to your guns and get this over with now. Sooner or later you will be forced to confront and deal with your parent's belief system head on. Trust me, the sooner you get it over with, the more time the wounds created will have to heal.

From personal experience, when I was a young adult, I avoided confronting my mother on her religious beliefs and just went through the motions. It came to a head when I got married and had my daughter, my mother wanted a good Southern Baptist upbringing, and I was not going to have my child raised in such a religiously intolerent manner. The confrontation ended with me in a divoce with my Husband, my daughter not seeing her grandmother for almost ten years, and my mother and I not speaking for almost the same period.

So speaking from very painful experiences, settle your religous differences with your parents as soon as you can. Waiting will only make the situation worse, especially if pretend and go through the motions. When the time comes when you must deal with it, your parents will be bitter and angry that you decieved them for so long. At the very least do it before you marry and have childern, please trust me on that one.

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KaLourin DthBlayde wrote this stupid crap:
Last I checked, freedom of religion was one of a US citizen's constitutional rights. Your parents can't make you follow or believe the same religion they do. If they do toss you out of the house for not going with what they say, isn't that religious persecution? (something else that all US citizens are "supposed" to be free from)

Push comes to shove, tell em that what they are doing is against your constitutional rights.

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The constitution only applies to the Government, not private citizens. That's why there's no First Amendment here on the boards.

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Drysart had this to say about Duck Tales:
The constitution only applies to the Government, not private citizens. That's why there's no First Amendment here on the boards.

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Or in schools.

My advice? Work your ass off (which you seem to be doing), move out, [spiteful]and then tell your parents that you never subscribed to their beliefs, and all you were doing is paying lipservice.[/spiteful]

Or, when you move out, give your folks a big hug for at least trying to do what they thought was right, misguided as they may have been.

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Drysart had this to say about Jimmy Carter:
The constitution only applies to the Government, not private citizens. That's why there's no First Amendment here on the boards.

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So the government cant persecute us, but our own parents can, yet the government tries to tell us how to run our own private lives?

Balls to the wall, no wonder I hate politics.
Feel free to ignore my post

I still think it's bullshit though, they shouldnt be trying to force their beliefs on him, or anybody for that matter.

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Ryuujin stumbled drunkenly to the keyboard and typed:
I'll take morals over religion anyday.

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Throw out religion. Throw out God. The whole universe is nothing but a random chain of events that have unfolded in the creation of humans who have actually de-evolved so much that we constantly destroy our own environment and are killing our selves off.

What is moral? If your existance is just a random event, what value does anything, including life itself, have? Why not kill, rape, steal, run around naked?

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Kanid had this to say about pies:
Throw out religion. Throw out God. The whole universe is nothing but a random chain of events that have unfolded in the creation of humans who have actually de-evolved so much that we constantly destroy our own environment and are killing our selves off.

What is moral? If your existance is just a random event, what value does anything, including life itself, have? Why not kill, rape, steal, run around naked?

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Littly Timmy "God, why don't you stop all the bad things in the world? Why do you let people kill eachother and do bad stuff to eachother?"

God "Why should I stop people, who can stop themselves?"

You know my beliefes. You know that I don't think going any religion (not even my own) Is going to make people stop being mean to eachother. No religion stopped that. No god stopped that. The only ones that can is our own selves. REGAURDLESS in what they believe in to give them their own personal strength to.

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Aanile had this to say about Punky Brewster:
You know my beliefes. You know that I don't think going any religion (not even my own) Is going to make people stop being mean to eachother. No religion stopped that. No god stopped that. The only ones that can is our own selves. REGAURDLESS in what they believe in to give them their own personal strength to.

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Strangely enough, there has never been an instance in recorded history where everyone has followed the same religion so there's no way to tell that it wouldn't make a difference.

I know what I believe, and I know my beliefs preclude harming another person except in self-defense. If everyone believed the same thing then no one would harm one another.

What I don't understand is what does a Godless person think morals are? What defines right from wrong, good from evil? Is it simply what the majority agrees on and passes as law?

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Aanile stumbled drunkenly to the keyboard and typed:
Littly Timmy "God, why don't you stop all the bad things in the world? Why do you let people kill eachother and do bad stuff to eachother?"

God "Why should I stop people, who can stop themselves?"

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One I like better:

Boy: "Why does bad shit happen to good people?"

Man: "It's the bad shit that makes us good poeple."

Ok nevermind, misunderstood the post

[ 12-26-2001: Message edited by: Maradön? ]

I'm not "Godless" per say I believe in a multitude of dieties. But my views of them are.. odd =P lol

But, to me, morals stem from a personal belief. As well as a Karmatic thing. I know what's right and wrong for me. But I also veiw that, my beliefs and morals are just that, mine.

I can use them to teach children, so they'll have a certine aspect of right and wrong, but ultamently, what they do with that knowledge is up to them. I can share it, but if they choose to ignore it, and harm someone, they are the ones who also suffer some kind of punishment.

Saying something like "God doesn't want you to do that" Isn't really true. YOU don't want them to do that. I mean if you didn't care if they committed an act ageinst your view of morals, you wouldn't have said anything (generalized you)

So really, to me atleast, morals isn't something passed by a diety, but an inner common sence. And yes, alot of it is intergrated into you by laws and teachings of other people, so in essences, you are taking on someone elses morals and making them your own. Others are a choice. Like eating meat, or smoking ciggerets, or drinking booze, or being a polygamist, or what ever else.

And if one were to control the environment, one could control the choices made. In essence, what a goverment tries to do.

Edit: What I mean in reference to "Godless" is people who claim there is no such thing as divinity, God, by whatever name(s), and there is only us.

If we are just a random occurance of events, animals like every other, created by pure luck, what reasons are there not to do whatever we felt like doing? It seems like if it is all just randomness anyway, there is no greater meaning to anything but to enjoy ourselves for the limited time alloted by science and luck.

[ 12-26-2001: Message edited by: Kanid ]

I support that you're standing up for what you believe in. After all, you're allowed to make your own decisions and choices about religion, it's in the 1st Amendment. I just hope that ya don't disrespect any other religion in the process - the big, invisible man, eh? I'm sure if ya said that to your 'rents face, they'd be more than a little offended. I hope everything between you and your 'rents works out, and remember that respect goes a long way, even if you don't believe what they do. Maybe you two can come to some mutual agreement: "You worship your way, and I'll worship mine." I'm sure you'll handle it in a mature way.

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Kanid had this to say about (_|_):
Everything appears to be a reaction to your environment. Taking on what others teach you, rarely discovering things originally on your own. How can anyone be sure that they are choosing what they choose and not in essence choosing what their environment has directed them to choose?

And if one were to control the environment, one could control the choices made. In essence, what a goverment tries to do.

Edit: What I mean in reference to "Godless" is people who claim there is no such thing as divinity, God, by whatever name(s), and there is only us.

If we are just a random occurance of events, animals like every other, created by pure luck, what reasons are there not to do whatever we felt like doing? It seems like if it is all just randomness anyway, there is no greater meaning to anything but to enjoy ourselves for the limited time alloted by science and luck.

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Luck is part of it... I mean there are 9 or 10 (They found this little planetiod by Pluto a few years back) planets in this solorsistem... only one has life on it. That so takes luck. *shrugs* maybe it's just me, but I find it kinda hard to believe that some god decided "Here's 9 planets. Now, only one of them will have life."

erf?

Why? Why only this planet? Why can't this god make life on other planets if he could on this one? Why did he deside not to?

I donno, scientists donno.. =\ no one really knows. And that is the beauty of it. It's something for us to think about, study, pick apart, and explore. This planet was "lucky" to get the spark that made life. Who knows.. the univers is HUGE, there could be other planets that had the same luck.

But as I said.. it's something I think about.. something I believe... I'm weird like that lol =)

To you, you believe in God, you believe he did all this. Ok then =) I'm not gunna argue the point of "No he didn't!" cuz to me.. that's not moraly right.
However, I don't mind sharing my ideas with you =) that's cool =)

Lie, if you can't.

Like Ferrel said, I'll pretend and have a roof over staying strong and losing everything. I like my soft bed.

!

I know the region where you live, because I live there too, and it is overwhelmingly Catholic. the result of that, sometimes, is that people can be boxed into thinking that their way of thinking is the only right way, and that everyone else is "sick" if they disagree. While I am one who thinks that there are answers to the ultimate questions, I also believe in two fundamental truths that dictate the way I treat others:

1. Everyone searches for truth in a different way, whether or not they find it in the end; and
2. We have the free will to make our own decisions for a reason, and I will DIE to ensure that people get to believe what they want to believe, even if I disagree.

You need to stand up for what you believe in (or what you don't believe in). Don't lie to your parents or give their beliefs lip service, that only compunds their error and drags you down a level or five.

Your parents love you, and they are apparently worried about you (and I worry about Seu, too, in light of this). If you explain your passions and explain why you believe what you believe and how important it is to you, I would hope that they would relent somewhat.

If not, can you figure out a way that you can either compromise with them (like agreeing to go to church now and then or whatever), or live on your own?

Just my thoughts, though.

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Kanid had this to say about Captain Planet:
Throw out religion. Throw out God. The whole universe is nothing but a random chain of events that have unfolded in the creation of humans who have actually de-evolved so much that we constantly destroy our own environment and are killing our selves off.

What is moral? If your existance is just a random event, what value does anything, including life itself, have? Why not kill, rape, steal, run around naked?

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Morals are left to be molded, E.G. What the masses deem as "right"

Their is no right or wrong, its just a perspective of what is socially acceptable.

Which is why I take morals over religion.

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Ryuujin had this to say about Captain Planet:
Their is no right or wrong, its just a perspective of what is socially acceptable.

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By that logic you justify the actions of the criminally insane and zealot terrorists.

Do you seriously believe that we only condemn the actions of mass murderers because they're "socially unacceptable"?

[ 12-26-2001: Message edited by: Maradön? ]

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Maradön? had this to say about John Romero:
By that logic you justify the actions of the criminally insane and zealot terrorists.

Do you seriously believe that we only condemn the actions of mass murderers because they're "socially unacceptable"?

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YES!

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Kameks had this to say about dark elf butts:

YES!

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You opinion is biased and doesn't count. You are criminally insane.

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Dr. Vorbis stumbled drunkenly to the keyboard and typed:
I'm holier than YOUR MOM!

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My Bible weighs more than yours!

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Demitri had this to say about Tron:
My Bible weighs more than yours!

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Funny, that's what I said to your mom about my ______!

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Maradön? wrote this stupid crap:
You opinion is biased and doesn't count. You are criminally insane.

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Bah just cause i watched that movies seven 2,345 times and then did commited every crime John Doe did DOSNT mean im insane.