You take it to a publisher and they love it. After another month or two of revisions it is ready to be printed. The Fanfare and hype is huge. Everyone wants your book. You have a good deal with the Publisher. You are going to make tons of money.
But the checks are small. Sales are terrible.. At first you can't figure out why. Then you stumble across a copy of your book online for Download as an ebook.
No wonder it isn't selling. Everyone can get it for free.
Yep that actually happened to someone. Read abouthim a while back. He loved napster and the programs like it, where people could get music and the such for free. Now he hates them and rightfully so....
Now I ask you all. How can you support a product who's sole purpose is to steal other peoples work and make sure they don't make any money off of it?
SLURRPPPPPPPP
humour disclaimer [ 11-26-2001: Message edited by: Ryuujin ]
If you want to pirate ebooks, that's your choice, a shitty one if you ask me. I'd rather own a hard copy of my books, that I can read on trips and whatnot.
And I prefer wood, paper, and glue to my books. Keep the plastic and metal in my computer, k thx.
quote:
Azizza had this to say about Tron:
Now I ask you all. How can you support a product who's sole purpose is to steal other peoples work and make sure they don't make any money off of it?
For mp3s this, for the most part, doesn't apply.
If you're in it for the money, you have plenty of it (normally) in the music business.
Smalltime bands, unless they decided to be foolish and stop their lives for their band, usually have an alternate source of income.
I don't feel sorry for Metallica. Sorry Lars.
"What if I never had any intention at all to buy the book or song. A good example is if I wanted to hear the old Donovan song "Hurdy Gurdy Man" or even someting like a new song of someone I don't like enough to buy but still want to hear. From a moral standpoint, when I download the song/book I have not jipped the makers out of anything, because I didn't plan to buy the item in the first place, and I am happier because I get to listen to a song or read a book I couldn't other wise."
Well I always thought that there should always be a counter statement to every statement, and here is my friends.
Both are electronic versions of a Hardcopy Media. One is read one is heard. SO what is the difference.
And what does it matter if the people already have money. Does this entitle them to less of a chance to make more?
Last time I checked Communism was dying out and for good reason.
kkthx drive thru.
quote:
We were all impressed when Avylen wrote:
I have a question, now first I want ot let you know I am actually againts file swapping, but don't mind when other people do, and I got this argument from a friend when I asked him why he downloads things."What if I never had any intention at all to buy the book or song. A good example is if I wanted to hear the old Donovan song "Hurdy Gurdy Man" or even someting like a new song of someone I don't like enough to buy but still want to hear. From a moral standpoint, when I download the song/book I have not jipped the makers out of anything, because I didn't plan to buy the item in the first place, and I am happier because I get to listen to a song or read a book I couldn't other wise."
Well I always thought that there should always be a counter statement to every statement, and here is my friends.
If you can not or don't want to buy the book then you don't own it. By this reasoning I should be able to go into a store and walk out with a brand new Sony Computer without paying. I have no intention of buying said computer or any other computer so therefor they don't lose any sales if I just take it.
[ 11-26-2001: Message edited by: Avylen ]
quote:
Kegwen Tabibito impressed everyone with:
For mp3s this, for the most part, doesn't apply.If you're in it for the money, you have plenty of it (normally) in the music business.
Smalltime bands, unless they decided to be foolish and stop their lives for their band, usually have an alternate source of income.
I don't feel sorry for Metallica. Sorry Lars.
Metallica has burried the hatchett with Napster a long time ago. Also, money was only a tiny auxillary reason, their main reason was because of a single event. They didn't get to choose with version of "I Dissapear" went to the radio stations because some DJ got it off Napster (or the like) and played it; illegally.
Metallica burried the hatchett, now all that is holding a grudge against Napster (and the like) is the RIAA. However, I bleed less for corporate middle men than for once great rock stars.
Also, I would do something to put my heart and emotions into it. I would do something, out of my free will, for love and love alone. I will fulfil obligations the best I can to the same standards, but never for a fading material reason.
Then again, I have green and blue hair, listen to punk rock, and skateboard. So what do I know?
quote:
We were all impressed when Ezvien wrote:
I download mp3s, then buy the cd if I like the song.
Then you are actually in a Very small Minority.
I think if artist want to do this then great. They should put something in it like some demo software has. either low quality or won't work after so many days.
Oh and Dem your argument holds no water. If I steal one battery out of a 8 pack of batteries it is still theft.
I said I support mp3 swapping, and said why, that's about it.
You asked me the difference between a pirated ebook, and an mp3, and I told you the exact difference. I made no arguement.
quote:
Ezvien impressed everyone with:
I download mp3s, then buy the cd if I like the song.
I would do this, if I had money or ever went to a store that sells CDs.
Oops.
The last CD I bought... was...
Tool - Lateralus
quote:
Demitri had this to say about pies:
I don't have an arguement, Azizza. You've seemed to of made one up for me.I said I support mp3 swapping, and said why, that's about it.
You asked me the difference between a pirated ebook, and an mp3, and I told you the exact difference. I made no arguement.
All that Azizza is doing is trying to make us come upon a great revelation that what we are doing is so morally wrong that we need to repent and resolve our wrongs. However, while it may be legally wrong, most people that use trading programs don't feel what they are doing is morally wrong. Most, about 98%, will never believe what they are doing is morally wrong, and accept that they are breaking the law.
Yet, since [people on the same crusade as Azizza that the following applies to] have more wrongs in their moral code, [they] often feel their moral code is better than [everyone elses]. However, I would be concieted to announce that this was a majority, so let it be known that this group is more of a minority.
Thank you.
quote:
Azizza wrote this then went back to looking for porn:
Now I ask you all. How can you support a product who's sole purpose is to steal other peoples work and make sure they don't make any money off of it?
Yes, how can you possibly love the RIAA?
quote:
We were all impressed when Dr. Vorbis wrote:
stuff
See, I was trying to avoid giving Azizza the moral high ground that sends every conversation he's in to hell in a handbasket.
Might as well hit the Drysart flag right now.
quote:
Koska Kintaro wrote this then went back to looking for porn:
Yes, how can you possibly love the RIAA?
Maradon: my hero.
*adds this quote to his list*
quote:
Demitri wrote this then went back to looking for porn:
See, I was trying to avoid giving Azizza the moral high ground that sends every conversation he's in to hell in a handbasket.Might as well hit the Drysart flag right now.
*lafflaffs*
quote:
Koska Kintaro had this to say about Duck Tales:
Yes, how can you possibly love the RIAA?
Low blow!
And I fucking love it. Bravo, old chap. Bravo!
Thats how I came to Linkin Park. He played it whenever he got angry. (And rightfully so. the CD ROCKS!!)
quote:
Koska Kintaro wrote this stupid crap:
Yes, how can you possibly love the RIAA?
Actually Can't stand them.. Still Doesn't make Stealing Songs any better...
Now as for Demitri and Dr. Vorbis.
Why are you trying to start a flame war? And I ask you one more time. How is stealing what someone else created Morally right. Just answer me that. Oh wait. You can't. Sorry forgot you are standing on thin air.
quote:
Demitri had this to say about Captain Planet:
See, I was trying to avoid giving Azizza the moral high ground that sends every conversation he's in to hell in a handbasket.Might as well hit the Drysart flag right now.
I never implied that he was on the moral highground 
Anything that suggests that is obviously taken out of context.
quote:
Azizza threw gasoline on the fire by saying this:
Why are you trying to start a flame war? And I ask you one more time. How is stealing what someone else created Morally right. Just answer me that. Oh wait. You can't. Sorry forgot you are standing on thin air.
Their point: [The people who "leech" things off the 'net] DON'T CARE ABOUT THE MORAL IMPLICATIONS OF STEALING SOMEBODY'S WORK! [ 11-26-2001: Message edited by: Kegwen Tabibito ]
Also, record sales not only continued to rise "despite" Napster's proliferation, they rose more sharply than ever before when Napster became popular. One of the two could be concluded: a) Napster doesn't affect music sales, or b) Napster INCREASES music sales.
Lastly, artists don't see jack from music sales anyway. Actual testimonly from actual artists suggests that the recorded music industry is set up specifically so that artists get NOTHING from it.
Vorbis just came out and said the truth, as did I.
Hot damn, thanks Maradon. I was looking for that Salon.com article. [ 11-26-2001: Message edited by: Demitri ]
Azizza it is not true that you are stealing something. Because the artists/makers do not lose anything, you just gain something, if I could form the cd out of thin air I would not be stealing.
However, the only ones who stand to lose money are the RIAA and big record lables, and even they aren't losing money at all, they're still making it in big fat bundles.
quote:
We were all impressed when Dr. Vorbis wrote:
I never implied that he was on the moral highgroundAnything that suggests that is obviously taken out of context.
He wasn't there yet, but now he seems to think he is. He really might be, but I don't care.
quote:
Avylen had this to say about pies:
Meep.
Thank you.
Now what they are losing is sales. People who would otherwise buy the CD/tape are now just getitng it for free. While it is true that this is not always the case it more often than not it.
[ 11-26-2001: Message edited by: Demitri ]
quote:
Azizza had this to say about Matthew Broderick:
Thank you.Now what they are losing is sales. People who would otherwise buy the CD/tape are now just getitng it for free. While it is true that this is not always the case it more often than not it.
OK, well, this is about as relevant as the fact that Coca-Cola is firing it's head of Marketing because their sales aren't where they want them to be... despite the fact that sugar consumption in the US is up like 4000% since 1970 and that's almost ALL SOFT DRINKS.
WHAT MORE DO THEY WANT!? [ 11-26-2001: Message edited by: Kegwen Tabibito ]
I currently own five Blind Guardian CDs, three In Flames CDs, two Cathedral CDs, and an Iced Earth CD.
Now, how many of you have heard of all of those bands? Every single one? How many of you have heard their stuff on the radio or seen their videos on TV?
That's what I thought. Know why? They don't get a lot of exposure over here. If I turned on the radio, I'd just get a load of 98 Degrees of N'Synch Backstreet Boys in O-Town, and their female counterparts. Ditto with MTV.
Know how I first heard their stuff? Friends sent me MP3s, I dug what I heard, and got more. Know how I encourage people to buy their CDs? Send 'em an MP3 or two.
Does this make wholesale album/book downloading right? No. But that doesn't mean that MP3s and filesharing are only for stealing. Sometimes it's how the little guys get a foot in the door.
quote:
Azizza wrote, obviously thinking too hard:
Uhh Demitri you are turning it into one. Until you came along it was fine in case you didn't see. I am looking for valid reasons from your side of things. Not people acting like little children.
Uhh, no. He brought up a valid point and actual DIFFERENT OPINIONS came up! *GASP*
OH NO!!!
quote:
Azizza thought this was the Ricky Martin Fan Club Forum and wrote:
Uhh Demitri you are turning it into one. Until you came along it was fine in case you didn't see. I am looking for valid reasons from your side of things. Not people acting like little children.
You've been given valid points. Look at, hell, all of Maradon's posts. Read the Salon article.
The only people losing money are the thieves themselves.
Did you ever:
Copy a tape for a friend?
Record a song off the radio?
Read a magazine article in the store?
Install 1 copy of windows on multiple computers?
Read a book loaned to you by a friend?
Borrow a video game?
If so, you did the same thing you seem to be sso adamantly against -- You kept the company from getting the money from you.
Now...please...dont climb to the moral highground unless you yourself are perfect...and you arent. noone is.
Fal
quote:
Now...please...dont climb to the moral highground unless you yourself are perfect...and you arent. noone is.
That's what makes this very same debate, no matter how many different forms it comes in, pointless. Aside from it's humor value.
There will always be a group who takes the high ground, and refuses to listen to the people on the "lower ground" because they are on the "lower ground."
Edit: In addition. And addiction. -
I damn well may be on the low ground, but I try to bring humor to these debates, because all reason and logic are useless. [ 11-26-2001: Message edited by: Demitri ]
