I remember the good ole days of evercrest, back when we were really a family. A handful of people socialising with the creator and the charaters of one of thier favorite web comics. This was Evercrest. We had laughs we discussed the comics and poked fun at one another about it. The moderators were well known and liked by all, they spoke to us and we looked up to them as a child does to his role model. These days are lost and i fear they will never return.
Flash forward to today, where the mere mention of something slightly off base can shatter friendships and start flamewars to make demons cry. The comics are discussed only mentioned and followed with "if you wanna see it pay for it". Yes i know its susbscrition now... and we know we need to pay, just because we dont have money or the resources to pay doesnt make us less of a fan. Your loyalty to the place you called home for so long doesnt acknowledge it, its just who pays the most and who rubs you right.
Drys i feel betrayed. I dont feel like im appreciated. I dont feel like all the time i put into supporting your comic that i LOVED and waited for every morning before i went to work was worth it. All those cups of coffee and laughs seem shallow and wasted to me. I LOVED EC and looked up to you drys, you were something of a role model to me at one point you lifted my spirits alot with your wit. Now it seems you only care about money and who is "on your side" Its a popularity contest now. It was NEVER like this before. I know you need money to run this site and i would GLADLY pay you when i get on my feet again, but i feel like a lower classmen by not having that great ole s next to my nick. What happened to making the comic for the love of it? Or is that not what it was about? I dont think so.
On "bad evil other irc server" well frankly i find irc.evercrest.com to be bland and boring. Half of the time im IGNORED there and im not the only one. Its like your person fan club there and im not a part of it. I come to "bad evil other irc server" for the community and just because i post here i dont think my "off the boards" chat should be regulated. Its your boards. its your rules. i Know. But WE made your boards and comic popular NOT you. Without the community of evercrest where would you be? Your comic would have not went anywhere if not for the fans, those who post and those too afraid to post. I used to look up to you. Now your trying to FORCE me to look up at you by looking down on us.
I know this thread is going to get your "loyal supporters" panties in a ruffle and i know i will be flamed but this is how i feel, i hope you can hear me out and think, i want EC to be the family we once were not what it is now...
thank you
Well said, Monkah Man.
quote:
Cadga the Confused Monkey had this to say about Duck Tales:
The comics are discussed only mentioned and followed with "if you wanna see it pay for it". Yes i know its susbscrition now... and we know we need to pay, just because we dont have money or the resources to pay doesnt make us less of a fan. Your loyalty to the place you called home for so long doesnt acknowledge it, its just who pays the most and who rubs you right.Drys i feel betrayed. I dont feel like im appreciated. I dont feel like all the time i put into supporting your comic that i LOVED and waited for every morning before i went to work was worth it. All those cups of coffee and laughs seem shallow and wasted to me. I LOVED EC and looked up to you drys, you were something of a role model to me at one point you lifted my spirits alot with your wit. Now it seems you only care about money and who is "on your side" Its a popularity contest now. It was NEVER like this before. I know you need money to run this site and i would GLADLY pay you when i get on my feet again, but i feel like a lower classmen by not having that great ole s next to my nick. What happened to making the comic for the love of it? Or is that not what it was about? I dont think so.
I hate having to do subscriptions and popup ads, but frankly, the only reason it's like that is because if it wasn't, the strip wouldn't be around at all. Neither would the boards for that matter. I had to roll out the subscription process before I was completely ready for it because another bill for the server came in and I didn't have enough to cover it.
Faction is my way of repaying everyone that's been following the strip and being part of the community for a while, and yes, I know it's not working at the moment, and yes, I know I keep saying I'll fix it, but I'm overwhelmed with other aspects of the site currently since I was forced to go live before I was ready for financial reasons. Tying in faction is a delicate thing because it ties into the paid subscriber database, and above all else, I can NOT screw that data up.
My intent is not to make money off of this. My intent is simply to be able to afford continuing to do it. One of the things in the works is a server "balance sheet" that shows monthly expenditures versus subscription and ad revenue.
I'll summarize right now how it would look today:
select count(*) from subs_data where subscription_status = 'active' and subscription_cost <> 0
ACTIVE SUBSCRIBERS: 40
select sum(subscription_cost) from subs_data where subscription_status = 'active'
SUBSCRIBER REVENUE (September): $238
Some subscribers paid for 6 or 12 months at once, but that revenue can't all be counted as revenue for this month, because it'll need to be spread out for the costs of those 6 to 12 months. This is a little more than 40*5 because some subscribers signed up for Image Hosting, and some put in extra donations along with their subscription.
Checking stats on the ad network's affiliate info page...
REVENUE FROM POPUP ADS (September): $27.12
(Yes, that's not a typo. Twenty-seven dollars. They don't even send out a check until you accumulate at least fifty dollars. This is doing MUCH, MUCH, MUCH worse than I had hoped for, I was expecting at least five to ten times that amount)
Checking my online invoice from my hosting provider
SERVER COST (September): $640.84
(Note that the site was only publically announced as being live for one week of the month.)
640.84 - 27.12 - 238.00 = 375.72
For the month of September, I have to pay $375.72 out of pocket, which is about the same as I've been footing for the past 6 months or so. It's very, very tight in my personal finances, and in fact, other than rent, this server is my BIGGEST expense and pretty much makes sure that I have no savings account. Since I've moved to California, I've paid almost $3,000 out of pocket to keep this site up. Anyone, ANYONE that says I don't care about this community even after I've pretty much given up my ability to afford a social life to keep it alive can EAT MY SHIT.
THAT is why I closed off the forums to lurkers (a good 50% of the forum traffic). THAT is why the site is subscription based. Not because I want to... because if the site is to stay up, because I HAVE to. Unfortunately if the numbers continue like this next month, I may end up making non-subscribers view strips that are 14 days old, or even revoking non-subscribers from the strips entirely, as much as I'd hate to do that.
quote:
Cadga the Confused Monkey had this to say about Duck Tales:
On "bad evil other irc server" well frankly i find irc.evercrest.com to be bland and boring. Half of the time im IGNORED there and im not the only one. Its like your person fan club there and im not a part of it. I come to "bad evil other irc server" for the community and just because i post here i dont think my "off the boards" chat should be regulated. Its your boards. its your rules.
Go to the other IRC if you want. I don't care. Believe it or fucking not, I don't have problem ONE with the other channel's existence. I'd give faction for hanging out there too except I don't have control over ChanServ there in order to tie it in. EVEN THOUGH a lot of people there are big "Ohh.. we hate Drysart, he's destroying our community" whiners, I STILL WANT to reward them because I'M A SAPPY, FORGIVING SENTAMENTAL IDIOT. YES, I'M DUMB AS A BOX OF ROCKS. I MEAN JEBUS FUCK, HOW LONG HAS LYINAR BEEN A THORN IN MY SIDE IN EVERY WAY SHE CAN THINK OF BEING ONE AND HOW LONG HAVE I PUT UP WITH IT?
I don't need the headache of people posting the problems about it HERE and getting everyone ELSES panties in a bunch when they're already sick of it. Perhaps you haven't been reading the board the past couple of months, but people are getting damn sick of flamewars and politics.
So I'm putting my EVIL OPPRESSIVE IRON FIST OF FORUM MODERATION THAT KILLS PUPPIES AND SCARES NEWBIES down and putting a stop to it.
quote:
Cadga the Confused Monkey had this to say about Duck Tales:
i Know. But WE made your boards and comic popular NOT you. Without the community of evercrest where would you be? Your comic would have not went anywhere if not for the fans, those who post and those too afraid to post. I used to look up to you. Now your trying to FORCE me to look up at you by looking down on us.
Where would the community be WITHOUT me having been here to support it? Hmm? What if at the first sign that running this damn site was costing me MY MONEY that I could instead use for luxuries such as EATING, I had decided just to shut it down? The relatively small portion of the community that frequents IRC might be able to funnel into an EZBoard instead, but you can see how much Woody shutting down GU tossed that community to the wind, dwindling it down to maybe 8 people, EVEN THOUGH this board was here for them, AND mog's EZBoard.
So don't give me your damn "Rage Against the Drysart" shit. I have, BY FAR, the most invested in this community, I AM the reason this community even exists in the first place, and ALL I ASK FOR IN RETURN IS A LITTLE FUCKING RESPECT.
If you don't think you can INDULGE me with that... you've been here long enough that you know what your other option is.
I apologize if I'm wrong on some points, but I don't see the entire situation...
You've got my support, Drysart. I do this through the comics I've been doing, and if not for your work I wouldn't have gotten back into the world of cartooning...
Folks, what he's been doing is not only keeping EC alive, but he's been improving it at great personal cost. I don't know about the rest of you, but if I had to invest as much as he did, I'd buckle under the pressure. Sure he could do what I do and use free services, but there's a downside to using free services to supporting your comics; you don't know how long they'll be around. When they go down, so does your comic. Drysart's investments into EC ensure that the comic will keep going until he can no longer support it (and I hope that situation never happens). Flaming him and calling him names doesn't help him at all. In my opinion, it makes us look like ungrateful people; that kind of attitude can bring down the morale of the artist himself. Worse, if this keeps up EC may disappear and we'd be deprived of a great comic.
I wish I could help out, but my meager earnings barely pay all the bills, and one day I may not be around at all... My line of work has quite a bit of risk associated with it (I'm a security guard) It's not easy keeping EC running; and from the amounts you've mentioned, I think it's a single guy's worst nightmare. I hope you can keep it up, Drys 
/me gives Drysart a big pat on the back
Drysart only bans someone if he has a damn good reason. And thats not very often.
Fights rarely break out there.
Drysart doesn't MAKE you pay for the comics, just see them a week later. Heck he should make it so you need to pay abit to even use the fourm for all the money it takes up.
He shouldn't have to pay money to have people gripe at him
I don't know why people have a problem with the way he does things. If he ever does something to someone he has a good reason or the person is asking for it
If your so fed up with drysart's ways of doing things leave!
I mean no one's makeing you come here. [ 10-01-2001: Message edited by: Davidson ]
You have your own chat so you can hang with friends and etc.
quote:
Davidson wrote this then went back to looking for porn:
Goto a bank and ask to have a money order made out to Tim Fries in us dollars.
Yes, it's pretty true that the entire pay-for-view, subscriber, two IRC rooms deal has split the community. On the other hand, it's a neccessary evil.
Drys didn't set up irc.evercrest.com to be evil. He did it because he wanted a IRC network where he could fiddle around with things, have them as he wanted them, and get rid of the the crappy IRC network problems.
There's a REASON he pays this money, and I don't think it is because he likes to play god on the boards. That was hardly the reason he started drawing the strip, or opening the boards.
So the community was close, tight-knit and very friendly before.
But every honeymoon comes to an end. And once things start changing, they will never be quite the same.
Do you still enjoy hanging on the boards?
If yes, stick around. Contribute in what ways YOU can. If you can afford it without problems, subscribe. Otherwise, click the ads maybe. But also, make sure that YOU are pulling YOUR weight to keep the community somewhat flamefree, and enjoyable. You can't expect the car to go the way you want unless you take the driver seat.
Running a community like this is very frustrating at times. I know this from personal experience. Hell, running ANYTHING where a lot of people with different views, backgrounds, opinions, is frustrating.
If these boards cost Drysart nothing, would there be subscription? Would there be ads? If you don't like it as it is, think of a better way, and shoot Drys your idea. But unconstructive critizism gets you nowhere.
Thank you.
quote:
indegloriafeestbeest had this to say about Reading Rainbow:
Yup,that helps,all the info i need.....NOT!
Sheesh..and to think i'm the blond one...
They don't have banks there? You get the money order, and mail it to him with a letter so who knows who is giving him money.. 
Editted by my better judgement. [ 10-01-2001: Message edited by: Friz ]
"What was I talking about again?"
"Before you respond with some ignorant drivel, please stop yourself."
quote:
indegloriafeestbeest had this to say about John Romero:
[QUOTE]Davidson wrote this then went back to looking for porn:
[qb]Goto a bank and ask to have a money order made out to Tim Fries in us dollars.
[/QB][/QUOTE]
You can get a cashier's check at your local bank for whatever you can afford, then send it snail mail to Drysart. If you PM him, I'm sure he'd be glad to give you his address, since I'm way to lazy this time of day to look up the thread.
Don't forget to enclose a not saying who it's from!
{edit: looks like the quote thingy--which I love!--is broken if the person quoted is quoting someone else. . .} [ 10-01-2001: Message edited by: Bloodsage ]
--Satan, quoted by John Milton
Ban EVERYONE from the comic except subscribers. Password protect the archives.
quote:
Maradon? had this to say about Captain Planet:
I, for one, don't think Drys is being harsh enough.Ban EVERYONE from the comic except subscribers. Password protect the archives.
I'd have to agree. I subscribed not only to see the comics (which are TEH FUNNNEY), but to help this community stay alive. I've been around too long, seen too much, to abandon this place now. It's a second home to me, and I thank Drysart from the bottom of my puss-filled heart for all the work he's done, and for all the cash he's pumped into this. His own cold, hard, cash.. from his own pocket.
Imagine if (God forbid) Drys lost his job, or was otherwise unable to work (sickness happens, I know).
Maybe, Cadga, when you've subscribed you can complain. As long as you're a freeloader you really have no right.
How would you feel if your dog or your kids constantly bitched at you about the conditions of thier house, or that thier food wasn't good enough, or that they didn't have enough TV channels?
You'd probably bitch slap 'em. Nevertheless, that's precisely the way you're behaving with posts like this.
quote:
Maradon? had this to say about Robocop:
I, for one, don't think Drys is being harsh enough.Ban EVERYONE from the comic except subscribers. Password protect the archives.
that's an interesting idea, but what if you got banned before you got the money to subscribe? then how would you subsrcibe?
quote:
nosleep impressed everyone with:
that's an interesting idea, but what if you got banned before you got the money to subscribe? then how would you subsrcibe?
Through the main page. Just 'cause you can't see the comic doesn't mean you can't open the page
Here's another idea Drys: Do character commissions! Nothing fancy, just maybe a 300x600 sketch for $30 or something. I know I'd buy one
*hugs*
quote:
Maradon? had this to say about dark elf butts:
Here's another idea Drys: Do character commissions! Nothing fancy, just maybe a 300x600 sketch for $30 or something. I know I'd buy one
I would, if I didn't already have one
quote:
Mortious Shadowstalker wrote, obviously thinking to hard:
I would, if I didn't already have one
BUT YOU WILL NEVER BE AN EVERCREST CHARACTER!! BAAAHAHAHAAA!!
quote:
Maradon? wrote, obviously thinking to hard:
BUT YOU WILL NEVER BE AN EVERCREST CHARACTER!! BAAAHAHAHAAA!!
I have my role in WoFR, and I honestly think Drys wouldn't know what to do with me if he wanted me in the main comic. He's got the RP'ing UO d00d
quote:
Maradon? wrote this then went back to looking for porn:
Through the main page. Just 'cause you can't see the comic doesn't mean you can't open the pageHere's another idea Drys: Do character commissions! Nothing fancy, just maybe a 300x600 sketch for $30 or something. I know I'd buy one
i never thought of that...i was quite tired when i posted...
quote:
Maradon? had this to say about Jimmy Carter:
The instant I have a job again I plan to subscribe.Maybe, Cadga, when you've subscribed you can complain. As long as you're a freeloader you really have no right.
How would you feel if your dog or your kids constantly bitched at you about the conditions of thier house, or that thier food wasn't good enough, or that they didn't have enough TV channels?
You'd probably bitch slap 'em. Nevertheless, that's precisely the way you're behaving with posts like this.
I know there's at least one person on the boards that wants to subscribe to help out, but just doesn't have the cash. So please don't let this become a "if you're loyal, you'll subscribe or else" issue. [edit]Not that you have, of course. I just don't want it headed that way.[/edit]
That having been said, I didn't subscribe for the early comics (not that I would refuse them), I did it to help support the forums. I like them, even if they do get a bit flamey and bitchy at times. [ 10-01-2001: Message edited by: ChibiDragon ]
This whole "if you're loyal you'll subscribe, down with the freeloaders" stuff is bullshit - if it wasn't for the fact Paypal hates my credit card and the fact banks here are pain-in-the-butt places to get international money orders I would've subscribed by now.
On the other hand I can understand where Drys is comin from - having your own dedicated server isn't the most cheapest thing in life to have. I have one, and I pay more for the server than I do rent; then again as some of you might've seen me say, I run pr0n sites to make a living.
All in all I break even on the server every month; but that took well over 2 years to accomplish. Now take the difference between pr0n and a comic - people will always be more inclined to pay for pr0n than pay for a comic. That's the way things go.
*shrug* I'll stop rambling now
From the posts I've read that Drysart has written, I can't say I like his opinions much (granted I've only seen like 10 or so)But I respect Drysart upkeeping this community.
I am a subscriber. I'm new to the community, I don't enjoy the boards much (yet I find myself still trying to keep up on it, heh)and the comic gave me a few chuckles. I don't subscribe for those. I subscribe because I appreciate what Drysart is trying to do. Im not saying those that don't subscribe don't appreciate it, so please don't infer that. I'm merely stating why _I_ subscribe. I have 10000 dollars in credit card bills, unemplyed, and struggling through college, but I still subscribe. I think Drysart deserves the money more than I because he tries to contribute to the world, which is far more than I can say.
I understand to some extent what Cadga feels though. I don't feel welcome on the boards (possibly because Im new *shrug* yet to be determined) Im also tired of seeing people getting trashed for stating an opinion. So in effect, I agree with Cadga in his dissapointment with how the underlying tone/feeling/mindset of the community seems to be. But I wholeheartedly disagree with his feelings of a moneygrubbing drysart.
*ponders how he'll be torn up for this*
quote:
MadCat wrote, obviously thinking to hard:
This whole "if you're loyal you'll subscribe, down with the freeloaders" stuff is bullshit
Oh, I'm not suggesting there's anything WRONG with not paying! But make no mistake about it, you're here on Drys's dime, and that is in every sense freeloading. Notice that I'm doing it myself.
quote:
Davidson had this to say about Duck Tales:
Goto a bank and ask to have a money order made out to Tim Fries in us dollars.
I am not sure how they do it in Holland but here I did that to pay an auction off in Pounds...it cost me over $20 just to make the check at my bank for a transaction I was doing in Pounds. It was only for 19 Pounds but with the fee it went over $50. I did the check out of courtsy since I did bid on his auction that was in Pounds. So yes it can be done but is even more costly or was for me....maybe I was molestered by my bank.
I subscribed before Woody told Drysart to kill the GU Forums. Would I liked to have the GU Forum still up? Maybe, but I have to admit that the forum was drying up. I come over here and don't expect to mesh with everyone, but hell not everyone is gonna mesh with me.
[Start faction quest]
You have entered Evercrest Forums
Drysart considers you indifferent, What would you like your tombstone to say.
Caanis says Hail, Drysart
Drysart says I do have to say that [flaming Drysart] is not to [productive].
Caanis says What flaming Drysart
Drysart says YOU WANT FLAMES?!? I WILL GIVE YOU FLAMES!
Drysart begins to cast
Caanis piddles on the floor
Caanis begins to cast
Caanis resists nerfed wizard spell
Caanis regains concentration and continues to cast
Caanis fades away
You have entered Evercrest Forums
Caanis says Hail, Drysart
Drysart says I do have to say that [flaming Drysart] is not to [productive].
Caanis says what productive
Drysart says YOU ARE NOT BEING PRODUCTIVE!
Drysart begins to cast
Caanis raises an eyebrow
Caanis begins to cast
Caanis resists nerfed wizard spell
Caanis says Woohoo! Twice in a row!
Caanis spell is interupted
Drysart punches you for 353 points of damage
Drysart punches you for 240 point of damage
Drysart kicks you but you dodge
Caanis says WTF!
Caanis begins to cast
Drysart begins to cast
Caanis fades away
Caanis /bug Drysart Faction Quest Broken
Caanis /sit on
Caanis /camp desktop
take it to the playground.
Drys ill subscribe when i get on my feet $5 is diapers for my kids right now.... and i wotn come back till i subscribe as to save you money... obviously im a lowerclassman because i am not a subscriber.
one less thorn in your side drys. Later ill be back...
quote:
Piper stumbled drunkenly to the keyboard and typed:
PDA!take it to the playground.
Kanid licks Piper's nose!
quote:
one less thorn in your side drys. Later ill be back...
Drysart has not once said if you don't subscribe you don't belong here. Everyone is welcome here, even those whom he continually disagrees with.
His post about costs was to illustrate his point. This isn't a free ride here, he puts up with a lot and pays a lot to keep this place available for ALL of us.
The LEAST everyone can do is show him a little respect and give him the benefit of the doubt that he does what he does here to maintain order and make this place as enjoyable for EVERYONE as it can be.
quote:
Cadga the Confused Monkey had this to say about Jimmy Carter:
and i wotn come back till i subscribe as to save you money... obviously im a lowerclassman because i am not a subscriber
When have I ever said or treated non-subscribers on the board any less than subscribers? I can point to quite a few of my posts that show the opposite.
I'd appreciate if you'd subscribe if you're able to, but I'm certainly not going to hold not subscribing against you.
But feel free to put words in my mouth, thanks.
quote:
Drysart wrote, obviously thinking to hard:
But feel free to put words in my mouth, thanks.
Did you hear that! Drysart said I'm his favorite poster on these boards!
Not the best solution because the arguement might still be out there.. =( But I hope you guys both feel a bit better about what I did..
I'm thankful for what I DO have, actually, that I've got this great community of people to annoy, off Drys' dime. What kinda annoyed me was the "no new board accounts unless you subscribe" thing... less annoying newbs, true, but less truly interesting and entertaining ones, too. Could see how this would cut costs, but it's still a damn shame. The irritating ones can be dealt with. The nice ones we'll prolly never see again.
I don't really mind seeing the strips late. I don't really mind the two IRC channels. I don't really mind the ads. The only thing I DO mind is, well, the little hints that I'm sort of a second-class fan because I can't subscribe. No one's come out and said it. But there's that general feeling and, because it's only that, I haven't really said anything. Needless to say, I don't like it. Not enough to make me bugger off, but I've had self-esteem problems before, and I don't like this.
Still, I like it here. I don't like thinking us poor non-subscribers who've been around for fucking ever will be next to go.
