quote:
Solstyce stumbled drunkenly to the keyboard and typed:
The only thing I DO mind is, well, the little hints that I'm sort of a second-class fan because I can't subscribe. No one's come out and said it. But there's that general feeling and, because it's only that, I haven't really said anything. Needless to say, I don't like it. Not enough to make me bugger off, but I've had self-esteem problems before, and I don't like this.
I'm sorry you feel that way, Solstyce. I've joked around about the new comics and non-subscribers, but I never even look at the (s) next to anyone's names to see who is and who isn't.
There are a lot of people who I know appreciate the effort and money Drysart puts into this place for us, but can't afford or arrange to subscribe for one reason or other. I hope nothing I've said has made you feel this way, and if so I'm sincerely sorry. [ 10-01-2001: Message edited by: Kanid ]
It doesn't make me feel inferior to subscribers, and I doubt anyone looks down apon me, or the rest of 'us'.('Us' being non-subscribers.)
I don't even see why this is an issue for anyone! Just post more! [ 10-01-2001: Message edited by: Black Wizard ]
I'm sorry I've been a thorn in your side, Tim. That's never been what I wanted. We used to be very good friends, joked around, talked, laughed, all that, and something went wrong. Somehow, my disagreements with things you did turned into personal attacks against you in your mind.
That's never been my intention. Over time, I've seen you lose contact with the EC community. These have always been your boards. Nobody's ever disputed that fact. But somehow along the line, it stopped being "Okay guys, this is what I want to do, and can I get your feedback?", to "This is how it is and if you have a problem you can stuff it." You stopped, I dunno, listening.
I've always told you when I thought you were doing something wrong. I haven't always been nice about it, and for that, I apologize. I should have worked harder to come to a peaceful conclusion with you about it. And I promise that, in the future, if I do disagree, I'll be a lot less abrasive.
But what I wanted was always good. I wanted the Tim back that communicated with us, and was part of things. The Tim that acknowledged the people of the boards might have views on things, and valued those views, and let them figure into how he did things.
I realize it's a lot larger community now, and I do think closing the boards to anyone but new subscribers was a good idea. I was just too resentful toward you to tell you that before. And I appreciate all the work you've done to keep these boards going. It's stressful, and I know I haven't made things easy on you. So I apologize for that.
I guess I just think the big problem with things now is communication. If you would talk *to* us, instead of down *at* us, I think it would really help things more. You don't really talk to us anymore, Tim. It's really like a god on high handing out commandments, rather than treating the boards like you value what they think and going according to that.
Of course, we're not perfect either. If we try to moderate ourselves, and not do things that are going to razz you even more than you are, then I think that could help, too. If we try to appreciate you more, rather than demand more more more, then that could help. And if people can get off your case, like me, then that will really help.
We've both made mistakes. And to be honest, I'm tired of fighting. I don't want to be petty or nasty or mean to you anymore. I don't want you to be that way to me, or anyone else. We were friends before, and it's horrible to see what's happened to that friendship. I just want us all to respect each other again, everyone equally as important as the next. And I want to forget what I've done to you, or you've done to me, or whatever. It's in the past. It's not important. Let's try to move on, both of us.
So, why is this in public? I could have PMed you, yes, but I preferred since it pertains to everyone's actions, not just yours, that everyone see it. I think we all need to step back and look at our attitudes, and look for ways we can make this place just as warm and welcoming as it was when I first came. So please, this is not a personal attack, this not a flame. This is just a sort of explanation of what's going on, and maybe how we can finally fix it.
As a semi-n00b, I have found that while the boards are not all that welcoming at first, depending on how you act, you can get better at dealing with the regulars, and become a integral part of the EC Community. I'm a fledgling writer, and I don't know how I would survive on writing novels alone 
. I have heard over and over the "starving artist" parable, and I'm sad that it applies to you Drys, though that EC portrait thing does sound like a great idea, and it'd make for some great sigs I'm sure! I am under constant stress from juggling classes, sports, and writing while only getting a few hours per day for the boards and/or EQ, so I can relate to the weight of the workload. When I'm working during the summer I have only a little more time as I'm still practicing out of season on top of the summer job.
These are your boards, and you have a right to set the rules, but perhaps you ought to tone down on the steam a bit, as complaints like these keep arising. That is in no way an insult, just a piece of advice. Some n00bs might stick around a while longer if they felt a bit more welcome, so some tutorials might be in order. While I can't access the latest strips, I still get my EC fix, even if it is a week late. When I finally scrape up enough for the subscription fee, you bet I'll be there.
Personally, I'm grateful for the chance to get some examples of my work up on the RP boards, and I've found plenty to laugh and cry at on the general boards as well. You've created something wonderful here, and I hope it continues to exist as such, despite crowding problems 
. You have my support, at least.
Stick in there mon ami, et bonne chance!
Respect and love one another- Azrael
Oh, whoops...I'm sorry, didn't mean to bump into this topic...
-Carl.
Cute, Leo :P
Simply put, I hate having to be a jerk. I hate having to be the bad guy. I hate having to edit posts. I hate having to ban people (though I'm sure it doesn't seem like it at times). But when something threatens the community here, I do what I have to do, even if it means being a hardliner from time to time. Even if it means I take flack for it.
In some ways I miss the boards of 18 months ago, when it was small enough that there weren't any subcommunities and the politics that sometimes pop up as a result. I miss the days when I used to lament about how I never had to ban someone and wondered if I could ever bring myself to do it.
But as much as I miss the boards back then, and the lack of stress involved, I like the boards of today more. We're a much larger, much more diverse community. We're also a much more explosive community. I don't think anyone here sets out to start flame wars or cause trouble intentionally -- but it does happen, and it has to be dealt with, even though it'll likely piss off half of everyone here, otherwise we end up with an environment like we had a few months ago, where people were actually avoiding starting threads because they were afraid they'd be flamed over them.
I've tried to never (intentionally) ignore anyone with valid concerns about the policies here, and indeed, they're still driven largely by popular opinion... but that's become more and more of a gray area. Half the board thinks someone is being too abrasive in their posts, the other half thinks he's just fine and that everyone else is too touchy. No matter what I do, someone's going to feel like I'm not listening to their concerns, or that I'm being too overzealous with moderation. (I hate moderating. That's why there are moderators -- and I hate when THEY moderate too.)
The whole recent smackdown on flaming is an example of that. Pretty much EVERYONE felt something needed to be done, and when I announced that I'd be going postal on people who post flamebait, it was cheered. Of course, now I have the unenviable task of deciding what's a flame and what's a disagreement -- and even in cases where it's obviously headed down an avenue to Flame City, pulling out the ban stick still gets people riled up -- take what happened in the IRC thread, for instance.
If someone has objective criteria for telling the difference between flames and "strong disagreements", I'd be glad to hear it.
And by the way, both Lyinar and Khyron are unbanned. I know I'm expected to post something in the other thread for Khyron, but I just want to finish this post, get the strip up, and go to bed right now, so hopefully this post will suffice.
I'm willing to talk to you about how we can move on from this, if you're willing to talk to me.
I think if *we* can stop this war we seem to be in, we'll set a good example for the rest of the board, and some of the flamewars and insensitivities and oversensitivities might solve themselves.
Not saying they all will, but everyone's picked up on our animosity, and it's spread to them. I think it could help. And, quite frankly, I miss you as my friend.
) .. but I digress..I figure that as long as people can strongly disagree in a semi-polite manner (i.e. no name calling, mud slinging, hatemongering, what-have-you) that'd work.
Personal attacks and obvious attempts to start shit - that's a flame. Then again I can flame without resorting to that. (yes Sir, we have a special on sarcasm and cynicism today - do you want any more?)
I'm rambling. 3 hours of sleep is not good for thinking up a good way to get the point across. I will now give up. *gives up*
*hugs Khyron gently and smiles as she heads to the hell she calls work*
Never fun when family fights, and this board is kind of a family.
To be quite honest, I was surprised when Lyinar told me she had posted an apology, but all in all, I hope it means things can be worked out now.
I really would like it if both sides could reach that understanding they are hoping for. The boards have changed in the 9 - 10 months that I've been here (gods, it feels like a lot longer... in a good way 
) and I really would like them to go back the happy place it was back in December '00.
Once I get through some credit problem, you can be sure I'll be subscribing too. I enjoy the comics and EverCrest as a whole, and would really feel bad to have to see either of them go.
*huggles Lyinar and Drysart* Group hug!
sigpic courtesy of This Guy, original modified by me
quote:
We were all impressed when Drysart wrote:
In some ways I miss the boards of 18 months ago, when it was small enough that there weren't any subcommunities and the politics that sometimes pop up as a result. I miss the days when I used to lament about how I never had to ban someone and wondered if I could ever bring myself to do it.
Oh, you mean when I wasn't here? *sniff* I'm so unloved. Maybe I should just go into those hills and find a cave where I won't have no nice foods with ketchup. 
