Now, we're in this Campaign where we have to go to this mountain to get these weapons from an old Dwarven Forge to help kill these orcs in an impending war. It's a store bought Mod, I dunno if anyone has played it, but it's fairly fun.
However, our DM told us all to make backup characters, because we may die. So, I've been doing just that.
I decided to make a fighter. And, after a lot of looking in the PHB and Sword and Fist, decided I want to make him use Shields. A lot.
So, here's what I need some tips on:
-Playing Lawful Evil (in: how to interact with the other alignments and the world)
-Using shields as weapons (in: I took a feat from Sword and Fist allowing me to use my shield as an offhand weapon. How much damage? With spikes, it says 1d6 in the PHB)
-Just general tips on playing a fighter, anything you feel could help me with DnD, at all.
Thanks!
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Sakkra Model 2000 was programmed to say:
Are you looking to roleplay or powergame?
Roleplay. We're all still taking small baby steps towards RPing. Since we've only done three Campaigns, we're not too good at it, so I need some help there too.
I don't know much about using a shield as a weapon, but ask your DM. You'd probably be best off acting like a paladin in EQ. That is, using a sword, and bashing occasionally (re: Every dual weild round or whatever) with your shield.
As a fighter, though, you're probably not very intelligent, or wise, and your first real instinct is to break it down, beat the shit out of it, and ask questions later.. (and since you're a lawful evil, you'd do the questions in a torture chamber).
Keep very up to date on the number of attacks you get a round, and make sure to note somewhere what they are; You don't have magic or anything else game-altering.. you just hit things. So you better make sure you can at least hit things as often as possible. Delphi Aegis fucked around with this message on 07-23-2004 at 02:26 AM.
Edit: along with the attacks/round thing.. I find it helpful to write down weapon damage, then factor in anything else (like strength bonus tohit and damage) and have it written out (Yes, I know you don't use thaco, but like "thaco -4 3d8+14" or whatever) for ease of use.
As for playing a fighter, there are tons of ways you can go, combat wise. With the variety of feats you get, you can choose whether you want to be a straight-forward bruiser, a more nimble fighter, perhaps using long-range weapons like a spear or halberd, etc. As for fighters using shields as weapons, I can't offer any advice there.
Lawful Evil charecters need high bluff checks.
Otherwise, your party WILL kill you.
As mine has come close to many times.
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Elvish Crack Piper had this to say about Cuba:
Lawful Evil charecters need high bluff checks.Otherwise, your party WILL kill you.
As mine has come close to many times.
Lawfuls are the type of Evil that has best chance of not being killed by their party, provided they're intelligent about their actions. They can bend the rules to fit their needs and make themselves appear not evil in the face of others. They don't have to do evil stuff every single second (ie, kicking every puppy and drowning every kitten you see whenever you see one).
Neutral and Chaotic Evils can't do this. Neither have the correct sort of patience.
My biggest problem with being Lawful Evil is that Im a wizard.
See, the rift happened when we went to this enchanted house, where we relived parts of a pre-wedding party.
Eventually leading us to dig up the body of a dead wizard.
A dead wizard, who happens to be a master necromancer.
Necromancy is not taught by the guild of wizards in this world.
My master, a level 25 wizard, a lich, doesnt know Necromancy. No this isnt my DM being an idiot and making up powerful stuff stupidly, he rolled to see if the guy was home and got a 20 :-/ Then rolled a 20 on his "first Impression" check. A one would have ment he thought I was too risky to keep around and have killed me on the spot. Incidentally whenever I meet him I have this 5% chance of death. :-/
Anywho, this wizard had a collection of magic items on his corpse. Very evil items. My master wanted me to take them to him. The rest of my party, wanted to take them somewhere else. Hence the problem 
My party mostly hates me know, something about how the thieves I sent after the item were actually more of the inclination to kill someone then take the items.
Dang :-/
I would have gotten away with it too, but we have the "god given gift" rule variant from some magazine or book that at creation you get a ranom power. One of the charecters can make communication runes, and the idiot thief in our party that joined said thieves guild never took his off when we tried to steal from everyone.
Heh :-/ So a platoon of the Good wizards apprentices escorted my group to the next town.
The ring of this dead wizard was actually a soul encasing device. SOO if I had succeeded, which my DM didnt think I would pull it off, knowing about the thiefs screwup, I would have had my charecter sheet taken away and some stats added too me, plus a few more levels in specialty mage necromancer. Who would then teach my level 25 lich master the art of necromancy.
The DM has a really rich backstory for his charecters. Said liches current thrall slave guy is a former PC henchman.
Hell, I just found out that the wizards take everyone who reaches 9th level, and teach them how to cast a spell that then uses your magical energy to power an artificial plane of existence.
Very cool stuff.
About the "THEY WILLW ANT TO KIL LYOU" thing, your goals and the good aligned party's goals will inevitably cross and you will most likely have to do something bad.
As a fighter, Id advise getting a high hide/move silently score and garriot wiring someone who is close to unvieling your plan.
If your the only evil guy in party, talk to the DM, and read the BoVD, available on khy's
Fighters have rather limited access to skills and depending on your reasons for being a LE character, you may have to cross-train which means a fairly high Intelligence score is a big plus.
Edit: Yeah, that's munchkining it a bit but it does help. Azymyth fucked around with this message on 07-23-2004 at 05:38 AM.
Lawful Evil charecters out and about without other evil charecters to act as a henchman for probably need high intelligence.
If not, I really don't suggest playing the only evil in said group if you guys aren't too experienced in RP and such. Most of the time clashing alignments detract from gameplay more than anything.
I don't think, according to this one feat in Sword and Fist, "Shield Expert", I have to take Ambidex and Two Weapon fighting to use them both in a round. Or do I?
Will it really be that hard to play an LE guy in a group of CGs, maybe NGs and Maybe an NN? Here's what I've got going on in my mind. In our current mod, we captured an Orc that was attacking us, to see if we could get an info out of it. Well, none of us spoke Orcish, so we couldn't communicate. Now, the question was brought up what to do with it. Now, I was thinking, as an LE character, would I bring up the option to kill it, or would I simply kill it? Maybe kill it with some means so it looked "accidental"?
What are some other example situations where I could apply LE?
Edit: About the BoVD, I don't want to be REALLY REALLY evil. When I think LE, I think like...Magneto evil, or Dr. Doom evil. They're smart, and they don't just go out and kill people. OtakuPenguin fucked around with this message on 07-23-2004 at 11:29 AM.
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Lawful Evil: These characters believe in using society and its laws to benefit themselves. To them, structure and organization elevate those who deserve to rule and provide a clearly defined hierarchy between master and servant. Thus lawful evil characters support systems that protect their own concerns; if someone else suffers because of that, too bad. Such people obey laws out of fear of punishment rather than any higher moral code. Because they may be forced to honor an unfavorable contract or oath, lawful evil characters are usually very careful about giving their word. Once it is given, though, they break their word only if they can find a way to do so legally. An iron-fisted tyrant and a devious, greedy merchant are examples of lawful evil people.Lawful Evil
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1. Always keeps his word of honor.
2. Lies and cheats those not worthy of his respect.
3. May or may not kill an unarmed foe.
4. Never kill an innocent but will harm, harass or kidnap.
5. Never torture for pleasure but will to extract information.
6. Never kills for pleasure - always has a reason.
7. May or may not help someone in need.
8. Respects honor and self-discipline. Has no time for the law.
9. Will work with others to attain his goals.
10. May take dirty money.
11. Never betray a friend.
Katrinity fucked around with this message on 07-23-2004 at 11:38 AM.
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Lawfull Evil-- While the person is evil, he follows the low, or set of laws, Example: An evil Black Knight will pillage the contry side and lock up all the nubile young maids in a castle tower, but will nor rape then persay, or when challnged to a duel by a questing good knight, the black night will follow all the laws of chiverly. The knight is still and evil SOB, but he holds himself to some set of laws or honor. Likely to hold hisself to some ideal of being a gentleman.
I like the idea of having a moral code, or honour code as an LE character, even if it's a bit twisted. Let me see if I've got this straight.
We have a tied up Orc that tried to kill us. Applying my LE character's "Honour Code" every enemy that retreats or is weak enough to be captured must be put out of it's misery. So, I just lop it's head off. Would that be an LE action?
quote:As a LE character, you'd try to use it to your advantage. Offer it a deal that you'll turn it loose if it gives you information. Don't tell the rest of your party you did this, then make it look like an escape. Note: he has to give you the info before you let him go.
Will it really be that hard to play an LE guy in a group of CGs, maybe NGs and Maybe an NN? Here's what I've got going on in my mind. In our current mod, we captured an Orc that was attacking us, to see if we could get an info out of it. Well, none of us spoke Orcish, so we couldn't communicate. Now, the question was brought up what to do with it. Now, I was thinking, as an LE character, would I bring up the option to kill it, or would I simply kill it? Maybe kill it with some means so it looked "accidental"?
Playing a LE is hard, because your only reason to stay with the party is if you get something worthwhile out of the deal, and if the CE characters find out what you're up to, kiss your ass goodbye.
As for shields, even with a shield fighting feat, you can only use one weapon per round (not one attack, one weapon) without penalties. Ambidexterity and two-weapon fighting reduce those penalties to a minimum. Believe me, you don't want your first attacks with your two shields to come at -6 and -10 (main hand and off hand, respectively).
For the shields themselves, you can use small or large shields. Sharpen the edge on a small shield, and it'll count like shield spikes (and work like a shortsword, making it a light weapon). Large shields would require actual spikes. Note that, in some rulesets, you lose the AC bonus of a shield in any round you use it as a weapon (from the turn you use it, until the start of your next turn). Tower shields are too cumbersome to be used as weapons, so don't bother trying. `Doc fucked around with this message on 07-23-2004 at 11:48 AM.
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`Doc Model 2000 was programmed to say:
As a LE character, you'd try to use it to your advantage. Offer it a deal that you'll turn it loose if it gives you information. Don't tell the rest of your party you did this, then make it look like an escape. Note: he has to give you the info before you let him go.Playing a LE is hard, because your only reason to stay with the party is if you get something worthwhile out of the deal, and if the CE characters find out what you're up to, kiss your ass goodbye.
As for shields, even with a shield fighting feat, you can only use one weapon per round (not one attack, one weapon) without penalties. Ambidexterity and two-weapon fighting reduce those penalties to a minimum. Believe me, you don't want your first attacks with your two shields to come at -6 and -10 (main hand and off hand, respectively).
For the shields themselves, you can use small or large shields. Sharpen the edge on a small shield, and it'll count like shield spikes (and work like a shortsword, making it a light weapon). Large shields would require actual spikes. Note that, in some rulesets, you lose the AC bonus of a shield in any round you use it as a weapon (from the turn you use it, until the start of your next turn). Tower shields are too cumbersome to be used as weapons, so don't bother trying.
Ok, so I guess I should take Ambidex and Two Weapon Fighting. What about Improved Two Weapon, once I get there? Is it worth it?
So far, for my weapons, I've got a Longsword (1d8) and Large Steel Shield (1d4) but then added spikes so it's 1d6. Can I aqcuire more powerful (hitting wise) shields? Or is there any feats that increase the damage of a bash? Maybe a d8?
Oh, I also picked Knockdown, is that good? It sounds cool and would work since I'm a shield fighter. Also, can I do Weapon Focus and Specialization on shields?
And another question, starting the character at lvl 3, how many feats should I get? It'll be an Elf.
Ok, back to alignment. I'm liking the sound of LE quite a bit, it'll be a nice challenge. But, RP wise, I need a bit of help. How are people's actions not with the main party handled? The only thing I ever did was, with my current character (a sorcerer), the party cracked a couple jokes on me, so I wrote on a piece of paper that I wanted to cast Ghost Sound of an Orc right outside the door so they'd think it was an actual Orc, I then handed the paper to the DM. He then proceeded to have them roll listen and then they heard an orc outside the door. Now, they all OOC knew what I was doing, but, not using OOC knowledge at all is hard. So, how do I go about doing stuff like Sneaking away and interrogating the Orc, how are those actions handled?
You can take weapon focus in shield spikes, but not shields. I believe there's a separate shield focus feat, but it's strictly defensive. As a 3rd level elven fighter, you get 4 feats total: standard feats at 1st and 3rd, and fighter feats at 1st and 2nd. Improved TWF gets you a second attack with the shield hand, so if you're leaning towards that style, it'll be worthwhile later. You don't have a high enough attack bonus to use it now, though.
There aren't any light (offhand) weapons that deal more than d6, so far as I remember. You won't be able to boost the damage die, but certain feats can add bonuses. Weapon specialization (requires weapon focus to take) adds 2 hp damage to attacks with a specific weapon. Power attack gives a to-hit penalty in exchange for a damage boost. Expertise gives a to-hit penalty in exchange for an AC boost (not specific to shields, but might benefit the character).
quote:
`Doc had this to say about the Spice Girls:
A spike shield is a shield with added shield spikes. It has to be made with the spikes on it, because adding them later wouldn't be sturdy. You might have a tough time finding magic spiked shields later on.
Ok, I think I've got this pinned down. Great!
Thanks! If anyone else has anything else to help me out with tips for RPing, later character stuff, or the LE alignment, please post it. I can use anything.
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OtakuPenguin thought this was the Ricky Martin Fan Club Forum and wrote:
Ok, so I guess I should take Ambidex and Two Weapon Fighting. What about Improved Two Weapon, once I get there? Is it worth it?
Improved TWF gives you a second attack in your offhand. So, yes, it's very much worth it.
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So far, for my weapons, I've got a Longsword (1d8) and Large Steel Shield (1d4) but then added spikes so it's 1d6. Can I aqcuire more powerful (hitting wise) shields? Or is there any feats that increase the damage of a bash? Maybe a d8?
I know of no feats that can increase the damage dice of a shield bash, but you can get the spikes enchanted.
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Oh, I also picked Knockdown, is that good? It sounds cool and would work since I'm a shield fighter. Also, can I do Weapon Focus and Specialization on shields?
The usefulness of Knock-Down depends on your damage per hit (I have Sword and Fist right beside me... Best book ever!), as you can only make a free trip attack on 10 damage or more in a single hit. In my personal opinion, a two-handed weapon would be better for Knockdown.
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And another question, starting the character at lvl 3, how many feats should I get? It'll be an Elf.
Four, two of which are combat-only. Two character feats, two Fighter Bonus.
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Ok, back to alignment. I'm liking the sound of LE quite a bit, it'll be a nice challenge. But, RP wise, I need a bit of help. How are people's actions not with the main party handled? The only thing I ever did was, with my current character (a sorcerer), the party cracked a couple jokes on me, so I wrote on a piece of paper that I wanted to cast Ghost Sound of an Orc right outside the door so they'd think it was an actual Orc, I then handed the paper to the DM. He then proceeded to have them roll listen and then they heard an orc outside the door. Now, they all OOC knew what I was doing, but, not using OOC knowledge at all is hard. So, how do I go about doing stuff like Sneaking away and interrogating the Orc, how are those actions handled?
That depends entirely on how good your group is. If they metagame very much, they'll make it quite hard.
A note on weapon use: I've always found two-handed weapons to be the best (Especially Merc Greatswords... Ohhhhh yeah...), as they offer several tactical advantages over dual-weilding or using a shield. It takes two disarm attempts to knock a two-handed weapon out of your hands. You deal more damage per hit, and I believe if you strike a caster while they're casting, they must make an immediate Concentration check with a DC of 10 + the damage dealt. Your weapon is large, and thus it's easier to disarm opponents with one-handed weapons. Two-handed weapon users get no bonus to disarm you. Knock-Down has a higher chance of success. You deal one-and-a-half times your STR bonus to damage. That's all I can think of for now.
However, as an evil character AND a Fighter, you'll likely often find yourself the target of attacks. The shield may work better for you, as that extra AC *will* save your arse, and possibly those of your party as well if you care at all about protecting them.
Both styles have tactical advantages that could save you at some point, really. In my personal opinion, no self-respecting Fighter with adequate funds leaves home without both a one-hander/shield and a two-hander. It may also be a good idea to cart around a blunt weapon if you face slashing- and piercing-resistant undead. You can smack them with the flat of your sword, or punch them with your shield, to deal Bludgeoning, but those weapons weren't meant for that and thus will suffer a -4 attack penalty.
Combat in D&D can be won by brute force alone, but it'll be a lot easier if the individual character and party as a whole use good tactics, and as a Fighter, you'll liely be the party's battle leader and strategist. Ruvyen fucked around with this message on 07-23-2004 at 01:32 PM.
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Ruvyen read this aloud from the Kitab Al-Azif:
The usefulness of Knock-Down depends on your damage per hit (I have Sword and Fist right beside me... Best book ever!),
Sword and Fist is 3.0. Complete Fighter is 3.5, and is even more fun than SaF.
As I recall, 3.5 got rid of the Ambidexterity feat. If you're playing 3.5, double check the feats and rules before you write that feat down.
As for playing Lawful Evil, there's one line you have to remember above all others:
"I was only following orders."
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ACES! Another post by OtakuPenguin:
Ok, well, my friends and I are currently in the middle of a campaign, with my friend Mark's older brother DMing. It's our third mod, so I'm fairly experienced in the gameplay mechanics, just not the really nitty gritty stuff.Now, we're in this Campaign where we have to go to this mountain to get these weapons from an old Dwarven Forge to help kill these orcs in an impending war. It's a store bought Mod, I dunno if anyone has played it, but it's fairly fun.
However, our DM told us all to make backup characters, because we may die. So, I've been doing just that.
I decided to make a fighter. And, after a lot of looking in the PHB and Sword and Fist, decided I want to make him use Shields. A lot.
So, here's what I need some tips on:
-Playing Lawful Evil (in: how to interact with the other alignments and the world)
-Using shields as weapons (in: I took a feat from Sword and Fist allowing me to use my shield as an offhand weapon. How much damage? With spikes, it says 1d6 in the PHB)
-Just general tips on playing a fighter, anything you feel could help me with DnD, at all.
Thanks!
- Playing lawful evil comes naturally to a lot of people, at least it does for me. The only thing you have to remember is that being lawful evil means you exploit the system to its full potential, unintended or not, to gain the most benefit for the least work. But you can't willingly break the rules, even if you don't get noticed in doing so, because then you're on Neutral Evil territory, which comes naturally to even MORE people!
The hardest part for me about playing Lawful Evil is not slipping into my normal Neutral Evil habitate.
- 1D6, maybe?
- Abuse the little rules like feinting to their full extent.
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Palador ChibiDragon had this to say about Matthew Broderick:
Sword and Fist is 3.0. Complete Fighter is 3.5, and is even more fun than SaF.As I recall, 3.5 got rid of the Ambidexterity feat. If you're playing 3.5, double check the feats and rules before you write that feat down.
As for playing Lawful Evil, there's one line you have to remember above all others:
"I was only following orders."
Yes! Finally, some clarification. Ok, we were looking through our DM's 3.5 stuff (he just upgraded like...YESTERDAY) and noticed there was no Ambidex.
SO. How is that handled? What are the penalties for the offhand? Primary hand? What's the dilly?
Also, I think I found a Prestige Class I want to shoot for, Justiciar. It seems cool.
Any other Prestige Classes (in the books) sound good for a LE character? Or just cool in general?
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There was much rejoicing when OtakuPenguin said this:
Why would they suck though? They don't in NWN...and you get bonus things that are neat.
Actually, caster prestige classes DO suck, both in NWN and D&D.
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OtakuPenguin painfully thought these words up:
Shields...and a sword.
Well, there are different prestige classes depending on the style you intend to play. Is he going to be a heavy armor fighter? An agile and flashy one? Different PClasses don't always work for all fighters.
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Zephyer Kyuukaze had this to say about dark elf butts:
Name your shield fighter Ladislaus.
That's one of the Murmillos from Gladius, right?
Contemplative is probably my favorite prestige class right now, just because it fits so well with certain clerics (mine, teehee), plus gives them a nice, almost needed, bonus. Addy fucked around with this message on 07-24-2004 at 03:36 AM.
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OtakuPenguin had this to say about John Romero:
Why would they suck though? They don't in NWN...and you get bonus things that are neat.
As a dedicated sorcerer, I can second this. Prestiges for casters suck, and prestiges for sorcerers suck more. There are very few/one out there that even has spontaneous arcane casting as a requirement, even.
Anyway, not only am I a dedicated sorcerer, I also love playing lawful evil. Things are a bit different for casters, but generally, the Lawful Evil thing is more of a guideline than it is a character personality, and often not even that. I sort of "fell" into lawful evil, because it's really fun playing that in an entirely CG + Neutral group (having the CN rogue knock out the cleric every time I had to perform some torture was great fun, indeed). So, basically, have a character concept before you apply the lawful evil to it. Think up quirks, habits, PERSONALITY before you figure out how you're going to interact. Trust me, they'll probably curveball you sometime anyway.
A good example for lawful evil behavior would be, well, the entire Knights of Takhisis from Dragonlance. Loyal to their mistress, with a definite hierarchy among themselves and a society in which it is possible to advance and grow in. Around super-uber-goodie-good-good folks, you're going to want to play up the Lawful bit of it all. Be rigid. In their presence, you're a soldier. Out of their presence, you're a tactician who strives to advance himself in the world through any, ANY means necessary. My lawful evil characters tended to view the law or their own codes more as a greater body of people around her; unless she can grow so powerful herself that she makes them irrelevant, she must work within their confines. Figure out WHY your character is lawful evil, then you'll know what outlook to look on the world with.
The best part about being lawful evil, thoguh, is those sterling occasions when you get to do something like drug up a captive and rape their mind of information, or capture an entire village's children and start sending them literally into Hell unless they do something for you. No one can say anything, and it's beautifully wicked. You're going to want to be extremely persuasive around your party: every time you want to go torture something, you must convince them that that is the only possible method of extracting information. Say with your orc, you want to get a little more persuasive with them. First, pinpoint the characters in your party that are either supportive or ambivalent towards your idea, and work on them in seperate. Try to not only convince them torture is the ONLY way, but that your opposition is threatening the success of your mission with moral objections. While you support their morals, you do not want to see the party get into any undue danger because of them, etc etc. You can kill if you want, but the one thing to ALWAYS do is be subtle, and plan.
