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Kegwen got all f'ed up on Angel Dust and wrote:
if working for rogues with poisons on and for bears is a retarded reason sure
Except saying you'll make windfury totem stack with non-humanoid characters and buffs that cause procs isn't the same as just changing the windfury totem buff to an entirely different effect.
In fact, it's down right lazy. Skaw fucked around with this message on 12-08-2008 at 03:37 PM.
Windfury is way, way better for rogues now by the way. Too bad we suck compared to every other DPS class besides warlocks
It pisses me off that I can't have a DK rune and an enchant on my big fuck-off axe, but as long as they balance around that fact I'll get over it.
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We have talked about making some of these changes and wanted to provide more details. You should be able to try these out yourselves on the PTR before they go live.Our reason for most of these changes should be obvious, but some common themes are:
-- Making tanking still rely on cooldowns, but rely on them a little less.
-- Make Blood a more attractive spec, and particularly for tanking.
-- Chill out some of the defensive capabilities all DKs have in PvP.
-- Avoid having to use Death and Decay as an out-of-combat runic power generator.1) Rune Strike -- damage decreased from 200% to 150% but threat increased to 150% from 100%.
2) All multi-rune abilities generate 15 runic power.
3) Anti-Magic Shell -- cooldown lowered to 45 sec from 60 sec.
4) The healing of Blood Aura, Blood Presence and Death Pact has been doubled.
5) Bone Shield -- mitigation reduced from 40% to 20%.
6) Icebound Fortitude now reduces damage by 20% instead of 50%. The amount of damage reduced increases with bonus Defense (to about 35% for 540 Defense, but it can go higher). The stun immunity is intended to be its primary role in PvP.
7) Frost Presence -- bonus armor increased from 60 to 80% and magic damage reduction increased from 5 to 15%. We wanted to reduce the effectiveness of cooldowns but bring up base mitigation to reduce damage spikiness.
8) Corpse Explosion -- damage increased substantially, added 5 sec cooldown, and changed cost to 40 runic power.
9) Heart Strike we overhauled this ability. It no longer has a haste debuff but will now be able to strike two targets like a cleave. It still hits for more than Blood Strike, but you can still use Blood Strike if e.g. you dont want to break CC.
10) Horn of Winter -- now has no cost and grants 10 runic power in addition to its stat buff, but has a 30 sec cooldown.
11) Night of the Dead -- now grants 40/70% passive area spell avoidance to your pet in addition to its current effects.
12) Outbreak this talent no longer receive bonus damage from Pestilence. The bonus from Plague Strike and Blood Boil has been increased slightly.
13) Bloody Strikes the bonus damage from Pestilence has been moved here to help Blood AE slightly.
14) Pestilence -- no longer has a 10 sec cooldown.
15) Raise Dead -- now split into two spells: Raise Dead now raises a ghoul or pet ghoul (if talented). Raise Ally now raises a fallen party member (at no reagent cost).
16) New runeforge rune -- Rune of the Stoneskin Gargoyle (two-handed only) now grants 25 Defense and 2% Stamina.
17) Shadow of Death -- duration reduced from 45 seconds to 25 seconds.
18) Unholy Blight, Dancing Rune Weapon and Hungering Cold cost reduced from 60 to 40 runic power.
19) Vampiric Blood -- in addition to its current effects, also adds 20% health temporarily.
20) Will of the Necropolis -- now reduces the damage of any attack that takes the DK below 35% health by 5 /10/15% instead of boosting armor when wounded,
21) Many death knight glyphs have been changed. In many cases the negative consequences were removed.
22) New death knight sigils are now available, primarily from vendors, including a tanking-oriented sigil.
Rune strike was pretty overpowered, I've had 5k crits with it regularly.
Multi rune-abilities going to 15 RP is AWESOME, because it standardizes the Rune->RP conversion on a talented primary strike to 1 rune = 10 RP. Before blood had a significant advantage here in that heart strike was one rune but provided 10 RP compared to two runes for 15 RP (with talents) for obliterate or scourge strike.
I'm happy about the changes to frost presence, even with the nerfs to bone armor and IBF. Less damage constantly is better than less damage if you've taken the right talents and have them up and the additional 10% reduction in magic damage is awesome.
Horray for RP cost decreases. 60 RP was a little much on some abilities that would never be spammed in the first place, like UHB, DRW, and Hungering cold.
Corpse explosion might be awesome now that it's an additional RP dump that isn't a Dot or on a long cooldown. And Night of the Dead is now unquestionably worth the points. Blindy. fucked around with this message on 12-11-2008 at 09:20 AM.
It is by caffeine alone I set my mind in motion. It is by the beans of Java the thoughts aquire speed, the teeth acquire stains, the stains become a warning. It is by caffeine alone I set my mind in motion.
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If only Damnati hadn't said this:
How do good Frost builds work? I know Unholy seems to be the popular build but dual wield Frost looks interesting and, as my DK is never going to be anything but and idle alt, interesting is better than maximum effectiveness.
Dual Wield Frost goes a few ways. Either 0/45/26 for frost strike and ghoul or 15/31/25 for the biggest possible howling blasts and more auto-attack damage, or even 10/35/26 which gives up 5% crit on everything for a few utilities, frost execute, and a ghoul pet.
All those linked builds are using corpse explosion which is iffy in this patch but will be using RP and good in the next patch.
Anywho, the jury seems to say that properly geared they can put out considerable (~4k) DPS, and with two tanking swords they can hit the defense cap easily, but they have hit issues which can lead to them parry-haste-gibbing themselves and with the exception of the frost-strike build lack a proper RP dump, and their AOE is going to suffer a tinsy bit, but is saved somewhat by the strong howling blasts and 15 second CD D&D's.
I'd say try it out, but not until 80 when you can get all the tools you'll need to make it work. Blindy. fucked around with this message on 12-16-2008 at 02:06 PM.
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Blindy. thought this was the Ricky Martin Fan Club Forum and wrote:
Dual Wield Frost goes a few ways. Either 0/45/26 for frost strike and ghoul or 15/31/25 for the biggest possible howling blasts and more auto-attack damage, or even 10/35/26 which gives up 5% crit on everything for a few utilities, frost execute, and a ghoul pet.All those linked builds are using corpse explosion which is iffy in this patch but will be using RP and good in the next patch.
Anywho, the jury seems to say that properly geared they can put out considerable (~4k) DPS, and with two tanking swords they can hit the defense cap easily, but they have hit issues which can lead to them parry-haste-gibbing themselves and with the exception of the frost-strike build lack a proper RP dump, and their AOE is going to suffer a tinsy bit, but is saved somewhat by the strong howling blasts and 15 second CD D&D's.
I'd say try it out, but not until 80 when you can get all the tools you'll need to make it work.
Is there any reasonable means to fit Chillblains and Hungering Cold into a build? I'm on a PvP server and those two talents seem like they'd be valuable.
It is by caffeine alone I set my mind in motion. It is by the beans of Java the thoughts aquire speed, the teeth acquire stains, the stains become a warning. It is by caffeine alone I set my mind in motion.
The thing is all the dk strikes scale with your main hand weapon's damage range more than they do with your attack power.
If you're going that deep into frost, you're gonna give up Impurity, which, along side the right frost talents, makes your howling blast kick ass and makes up for the fact that all your strikes are going to be weak as shit. If you want hungering cold, then just use a two hander. There is really no specific advantage to duel wielding other than it scales the auto attack talents in unholy really well, makes haste a useful stat, and gives you lots of crits so killing machine is always up when you need it, but in order to get all that, you've got to give away 40% or so damage on obliterate and frost strike, which is just about an even trade to be blunt.
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Blindy. had this to say about Captain Planet:
Well, you could, but then that wouldn't be much of a duel wield build.The thing is all the dk strikes scale with your main hand weapon's damage range more than they do with your attack power.
If you're going that deep into frost, you're gonna give up Impurity, which, along side the right frost talents, makes your howling blast kick ass and makes up for the fact that all your strikes are going to be weak as shit. If you want hungering cold, then just use a two hander. There is really no specific advantage to duel wielding other than it scales the auto attack talents in unholy really well, makes haste a useful stat, and gives you lots of crits so killing machine is always up when you need it, but in order to get all that, you've got to give away 40% or so damage on obliterate and frost strike, which is just about an even trade to be blunt.
This is kind of what I have in mind to incorporate Hungering Cold and Chillblains; does Impurity really matter so much on it's own as to invalidate the entire build? I'm in a bad position to judge the effects of such changes at this point, though I am familiar with similar talents and their effects (Empowered Corruption and Empowered Healing are old friends).
On a different note, how well does this kind of build lend itself to Frost tanking? It seems like Unholy has the better tools for that but I like the Frost flavor enough from the aesthetic standpoint that I'd prefer to stick with that in any situation I can. What sort of changes would be made for a tanking build?
It is by caffeine alone I set my mind in motion. It is by the beans of Java the thoughts aquire speed, the teeth acquire stains, the stains become a warning. It is by caffeine alone I set my mind in motion.
Are you really that set on dual wielding? Especially as a tank it's gonna get you killed unless you stack the hell out of expertise to minimize parrys, you'd be better off worrying about defense rating as a 2 hand tank.
I'd read some of the topics at EJ, or just go ahead and spec it and see what you think, along with the standard theory crafted dual wield build.
If you're so set on dual wielding as a death knight, go tri-spec and DPS. There isn't enough gear in the game yet to support a dual wielding death knight tank.
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Blindy. wrote, obviously thinking too hard:
Like I said, if you're going 0/51/20, you'll get more damage out of putting those three points in annihilation and using a two hander than you would putting them in dual wield and using two one handers. Impurity does have a very large effect on Howling Blast, because the AP->damage conversion is ran before the double damage and the many many +% modifiers are calculated.Are you really that set on dual wielding? Especially as a tank it's gonna get you killed unless you stack the hell out of expertise to minimize parrys, you'd be better off worrying about defense rating as a 2 hand tank.
I'd read some of the topics at EJ, or just go ahead and spec it and see what you think, along with the standard theory crafted dual wield build.
It's really just an aesthetic appeal and some desire to work with the synergies Frost offers to dual wield. It's the Frost spec I'm really hung up on rather than the weapons; there's something about that whole "I will freeze your blood in your veins and tear your soul from your body" approach to combat that appeals to me (probably why my main is a Warlock specced 54/12/5).
Edit: tanking isn't a priority with my DK, just a sidenote I'd thought I'd keep an eye on in case there's a call for it. Damnati fucked around with this message on 12-16-2008 at 04:25 PM.
It is by caffeine alone I set my mind in motion. It is by the beans of Java the thoughts aquire speed, the teeth acquire stains, the stains become a warning. It is by caffeine alone I set my mind in motion.
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Damnati enlisted the help of an infinite number of monkeys to write:
This is kind of what I have in mind to incorporate Hungering Cold and Chillblains; does Impurity really matter so much on it's own as to invalidate the entire build? I'm in a bad position to judge the effects of such changes at this point, though I am familiar with similar talents and their effects (Empowered Corruption and Empowered Healing are old friends).On a different note, how well does this kind of build lend itself to Frost tanking? It seems like Unholy has the better tools for that but I like the Frost flavor enough from the aesthetic standpoint that I'd prefer to stick with that in any situation I can. What sort of changes would be made for a tanking build?
The reason you want Impurity is due to your increased need of spells. Your %weapon damage attacks are going to suck due to using a 1h weapon.
However, I'd prefer this if I was going to dual wield.
The build you listed is more for a 2h death knight.
Edit: Actually, this. Since you're not going to be using the ghoul, talents associated with it are pretty pointless. Instead, get Virulence to lower your 17% chance to miss with spells. Willias fucked around with this message on 12-16-2008 at 04:46 PM.
It is by caffeine alone I set my mind in motion. It is by the beans of Java the thoughts aquire speed, the teeth acquire stains, the stains become a warning. It is by caffeine alone I set my mind in motion.
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Rodent King had this to say about dark elf butts:
....Hungering cold is highly situational at best and is largely considered a PvP talent. In my personal tanking experience I would never use it, as I haven't encountered single (or multiple even) packs where the damage incoming was too high. I've always preferred AOE to just burn everything down, and I've had the threat to allow (encourage) this.
...
For tanking it seems a bit more of an O Shit button since it is like a PBAOE CC that lays Frost Fever to rebuild Aggro, so far for tanking I have only used it with idiot pugs when someone goes ape with an AOE and Hungering cold+Howling blast combo to regain. It Might have more use in an Off-tank role.
It's worth one talent point. Blindy. fucked around with this message on 12-18-2008 at 09:05 AM.
