quote:

---

Maradon! probably says this to all the girls:

The idea that the sum total of a humans existence simply vanishes at the end of life is too abominable a concept for me to willingly accept.

---

It's not like it is something you will have to experience though. I mean, other people's deaths is one thing of course, but for my own, how can I fear or dread "nothingness".

Personally, I fear pain a hell of a lot. I fear dying, but I don't fear death. THere won't be any consciousness or spirit or whatever to pine after missed opportunities or left behind loved ones or whatever.

I might not be getting my thoughts through very well. Also, I might not be so self-assured when I'm on my death bed. Who knows.

I enjoy existing quite a lot, though, and the utter cessation of it would be the most horrible thing imaginable - more so because it really isn't even imaginable at all.

I read the Bible and found merit in it.

quote:

---

Stalwart Steve wrote this stupid crap:
The Bible was clearly written by a bunch of gayrabs with no concept of grammar, and then mistranslated a hundred times, ha ha.

---

k

quote:

---

Maradon! probably says this to all the girls:
If you have no faith at all, then you're an atheist.

If you think God is extremely unlikely, then you don't really have any faith.

---

Didn't we have that discussion in the last thread with this topic?

Probably not the clearest wording, but it's basically my culmination of personal observation and various scientific laws and theorums.

quote:

---

Maradon! wrote this then went back to looking for porn:
My entire point was that you don't need to take a firm stance against the existence of a God in order to be an atheist. You only need to lack faith and live your life as if there is no God (wonderful things both). The classification of agnostics as people who believe that there is a chance that a supreme deity exists but otherwise behave as if one does not is redundant and pointless.

To say that only people who actively deny the existence of God are atheists and to portray agnosticism as an indifferent midground is to make the belief that god could possibly exist the default stance from which atheists are taking an affirmative departure, which logically is not the case.

This is the source of the fallacy that atheism is just another religion, or that atheism requires faith that God does not exist. Because of the wonders of scientific probability - Occam's Razor, The Anthropic Principle, and so on - we know that atheism is in fact the default position, scientifically the most likely scenario from which deists are taking an affirmative departure.

The distinction is important, because the burden of proof lies with the affirmative.

---

People classify themselves as agnostics, because of that small bit of doubt that it could happen. I, like you, figured they were really atheists. Then I posted the scale. Its just rating a persons feelings on the matter. The 7 point bit isn't saying that a 50/50 chance exists.

I figure there isn't a god from the principles you stated, or as I say to people I know, that how I find knowledge that there is no god is much like there isn't a teacup floating by pluto. Russel rocks! I mean, yeah, proof

I've never really understoof the "atheism is just another religion bit" It lacks all the parts that make a religion.

quote:

---

Razortooth Gnome had this to say about Matthew Broderick:
Thoughts about what comes after and higher powers are rather pointless, but I'd rather believing in something to find nothing, than to die believing nothing and find some hell.

I read the Bible and found merit in it.

---

I read the bible and really didn't think a good god would order me to kill my kid. I'd be a bad father for attempting it. Also, you seem to be paraphrasing Pascals Wager. This is not a safe bet, as it nots "religion or no religion" but "1 religion out of thousands and no religion"

What keeps you from following one, pissing off the real one, and still going to hell, hmm?

Edit: And I agree with Douglas Adams. Most agnostics are just being wishy washy. Be firm in your non-believing!

Alaan fucked around with this message on 09-11-2007 at 05:15 PM.

quote:

---

ACES! Another post by Maradon!:
How exactly do you figure that is?

---

Messiah, Scripture, Intolerance, Ignorance, Zeal, complete with Moderates.

Atheism is bereft of organization, faith and belief, but the structure and concepts are the same as most modern religions.

quote:

---

x--Mr. ParcelanO-('-'Q) :
Messiah, Scripture, Intolerance, Ignorance, Zeal

---

Atheism has none of those things. I'm not even sure what lead you to conclude that it did.

Atheism has all those things, ha ha

Stalwart Steve fucked around with this message on 09-11-2007 at 07:03 PM.

Whos my messiah now? Is Sam Harris supposed to lead me up into canada so we can start some super atheist society?

There are no defining texts of atheism, even the closest books you could assert fall far short of any sort of religious instruction book. The popular stuff written by Dawkins, Harris, Dennet and others does not have the same final weight that any actual scripture has.

Intolerance and Ignorance?

I'm not campaigning for an end to all religion. I don't think anyone on this thread is.

Zeal should not be confused with Fanaticism. One gives bonus attacks, the other is an aura. Don't be a noob.

In all honestly, I cant figure out what led you to say those things.

quote:

---

From the book of Maradon!, chapter 3, verse 16:
Atheism has none of those things. I'm not even sure what lead you to conclude that it did.

---

Maybe in regards to messiah and scripture, but intolerance, ignorance, and zeal belong to many members of any faith.

quote:

---

In all honestly, I cant figure out what led you to say those things.

---

Probably the arguments in this thread regarding people who consider themselves Agnostic and the fact that said Agnostics are actually trying to make themselves sound better than actually being Atheist or not, as if it actually mattered.

Willias fucked around with this message on 09-11-2007 at 07:15 PM.

quote:

---

We were all impressed when Elvish Crack Piper wrote:
In all honestly, I cant figure out what led you to say those things.

---

Which is more evidence for my study.

Don't worry. It doesn't concern you more than you've already contributed.

You don't need to know anything more than you already do.

quote:

---

Williasing:
Maybe in regards to messiah and scripture, but intolerance, ignorance, and zeal belong to many members of any faith.

---

Atheism isn't a faith, it's a complete lack of faith.

Intolerance, ignorance, and zeal are individual human traits, and so atheists with these traits naturally surface from time to time, but they're also an integral parts of the way most religions are taught.

Nearly every religion on earth preaches that their way is the one true way and that non-adherents are going to hell, that you should trust in God and not in the works of man, and that you should be as zealous a disciple of God as possible. In other words, intolerance, ignorance, and zeal, among other things.

Atheism, even when regarded as a movement, teaches precisely none of these things. Indoctrination is strictly anathema, especially childhood indoctrination. The atheist completely lacks faith and so relies on knowledge in the pursuit of truth. Even zeal is anathema, you don't preach anything that you cannot prove, and if you are proven wrong you recant. Irrational zeal has no place in the world of truth and knowledge.

Whatever. More padding to evade being called on your previous comments.

How about backing up your ridiculous assertions?

To anyone, Can I get a guess of what Parcelan was thinking when he declared that Atheism had a messiah and a Scripture.

Maradon, I don't think there is anything wrong with zeal. Like you said, irrational zeal is bad. Being very committed to something you believe in, but ready to stop if actually proven wrong.

What does the "atheist movement" even teach? Teach young people to think for themselves and be civil?

edit: missed a word

Elvish Crack Piper fucked around with this message on 09-11-2007 at 07:46 PM.

quote:

---

Elvish Crack Piper painfully thought these words up:
Your own curiosity... ok

Whatever. More padding to evade being called on your previous comments.

How about backing up your ridiculous assertions?

To anyone, Can I get a guess of what Parcelan was thinking when he declared that Atheism had a messiah and a Scripture.

Maradon, I don't think there is anything wrong with zeal. Like you said, irrational zeal is bad. Being very committed to something you believe in, but ready to stop if actually proven wrong.

What does the "atheist movement" even teach? Teach young people to think for themselves and be civil?

edit: missed a word

---

I never declared anything. I made an observation and formed an opinion.

If you can't be civil, please leave the thread.

quote:

---

Alaan had this to say about John Romero:
I don't even bother trying to convince anyone. Not worth the effort! Whatever gets other people through the day is a-ok with me until they start trying to mandate their religion by law. Because teaching Judeo-Christian creationism is ok in schools!!! But man would the Religious Right shit a brick if they taught Hindu creationism in schools.

---

So your goal is to convince people?

quote:

---

Mr. Parcelan had this to say about Robocop:
So your goal is to convince people?

---

No. Because I don't want atheism taught in schools. I want SCIENCE taught in schools. Where someone goes with that from there is up to them. Hell, I'd be ok with them having a class on creation ideas, provided it covered Christian/Hindi/Buddhist/Science/etc and everyone had a grand ol' time. Just as long as it is a humanities class and not a science class.

quote:

---

Alaan stumbled drunkenly to the keyboard and typed:
No. Because I don't want atheism taught in schools. I want SCIENCE taught in schools. Where someone goes with that from there is up to them. Hell, I'd be ok with them having a class on creation ideas, provided it covered Christian/Hindi/Buddhist/Science/etc and everyone had a grand ol' time. Just as long as it is a humanities class and not a science class.

---

Oh, definitely. Religion has no place in classrooms until college, where it can be debated and discussed with rational people. Here in Arizona, in fact, the Grand Canyon commission was forced to put up creationist literature offering the "alternative" view that the Grand Canyon might have been left by the flood of Noah's Ark.

When you said "convince" people, I wasn't sure of what. That religion should be taught as being in the same territory is a noble endeavor. That it's okay to be atheist is also a good one. Given the nature of the thread, though, I thought you might be talking conversion stuff, which is what I was curious about.

If we have a humanties class discussing various world creation myths by the numerous religions in the world, what are they talking about? I am christian => god made the earth in 7 days vs. I am hindu => brahma came out of a golden egg split stuff into different pieces and BAM world vs. Comanche belief that the great spirit made them all and that the big bad demon hides in a snakes venom?

Still, it all boils down to "My book is right because I was raised that way"

How do you keep a class like that from turning into a pulpit? What kind of text are you going to use to teach it? What are the goals from the class? All religions are basically the same? All religions are similiar and here are some massive glaring differences? Are we just going to gloss over the nasty stuff?

quote:

---

Elvish Crack Piper got all f'ed up on Angel Dust and wrote:
How do you keep a class like that from turning into a pulpit? What kind of text are you going to use to teach it? What are the goals from the class? All religions are basically the same? All religions are similiar and here are some massive glaring differences? Are we just going to gloss over the nasty stuff?

---

Enroll in college and take a class.

I'm not asking a college professor I meet a few months from now, and if I were to enroll in the class I'd ask to read the syl beforehand to answer any questions I had on it.

I'm asking you and alaan for your opinion about the matter.

I like how you ignored the rest of my post too

quote:

---

Maradon! probably says this to all the girls:
Atheism isn't a faith, it's a complete lack of faith.

---

I realized that after I posted it, but really couldn't think of a another word to replace it. :/

I guess it would have been better to say "group of people".