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Tyewa Dawnsister had this to say about Knight Rider:
By your logic harmful things should be allowed to be prepared and served as food by restaurants. I'll have a side of mercury with my fries please, no make that arsenic.
Ahhh, Mercury sweetest of the transition metals. But Tyewa, what you fail to realize is that it really is not the government's job to be your mother. Would you like it if the government outlawed sugar, because studies(and any government study can be easily biased) show it causes heart disease? Or how about the government outlaw cheese, since its leading to obesity? The point is, trans fats are not so harmful they need to be controlled by the government. Controlling that is just one more step in NYC becoming a huge collectivist society. Yay for nanny states! The government always knows whats best, not the person! Lets let the government tell us what to do, and never question it. Lets be sheeple! baa baa!
--Satan, quoted by John Milton
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Bloodsage had this to say about John Romero:
There's also a clear qualitative difference between poisons like mercury and arsenic which, regardless of dosage or other factors have direct, predictably fatal consequences. . .and a substance that might, if one has other risk factors and leads an otherwise unhealthy lifestyle and overindulges over a long period of time might increase the risk of heart or arterial damage that may or may not result--eventually--in death.
And therein lies the truth of the matter. Of course they should ban things that are directly harmful and poisonous, but things with only a minimal risk and actual benefits (even if it's just taste) should be allowed in select foods, as long as said provider clearly indicates what nutrients were used in the making of the food. We can't hold the hand of everyone in the country, leading their lives how we think they should be led. Regardless of how we feel about their given lifestyle, to directly force them away from it thusly would turn us into a dictatorship.
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Azymyth had this to say about (_|_):
It's really not as though restaurants are being secretive about how they prepare their food or what's in them. Most can and will provide nuitricial information about thier products when asked. It's always been the public's decision on they do with that information.
Reminds me of when I watched Supersize Me, and the guy went around to McDonald's asking to see their nutrition chart, and half the places couldn't even find theirs or knew about it, I think it said. Maybe on the corporate level they're informed enough, but actually getting word to the people is a lot harder. I wonder what if they started printing the charts on the wrapper, maybe on the inside? They'd never do it though, people might idly check it out, realize how fatty the burger they were holding right in their hands was, and never eat there again 
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Kait startled the peaceful upland Gorillas, blurting:
Reminds me of when I watched Supersize Me, and the guy went around to McDonald's asking to see their nutrition chart, and half the places couldn't even find theirs or knew about it, I think it said. Maybe on the corporate level they're informed enough, but actually getting word to the people is a lot harder. I wonder what if they started printing the charts on the wrapper, maybe on the inside? They'd never do it though, people might idly check it out, realize how fatty the burger they were holding right in their hands was, and never eat there again
I've been to several McDonald's where the nutrition info was printed on the paper mats in the trays. The info is also available on their web site. Beware morons with political agendas who create "documentaries." Bloodsage fucked around with this message on 12-06-2006 at 05:56 PM.
--Satan, quoted by John Milton
Same for Taco Bell, they even advocate "responsible eating" on their posters.
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Kait painfully thought these words up:
Reminds me of when I watched Supersize Me, and the guy went around to McDonald's asking to see their nutrition chart, and half the places couldn't even find theirs or knew about it, I think it said. Maybe on the corporate level they're informed enough, but actually getting word to the people is a lot harder. I wonder what if they started printing the charts on the wrapper, maybe on the inside? They'd never do it though, people might idly check it out, realize how fatty the burger they were holding right in their hands was, and never eat there again
In my little town, the nutrition info for their entire menu is in the tray. It's on the back of the paper, but the paper in the tray definitely does not fail to tell you that; it's not like it's hidden at all. In fact, on double-cheeseburger wrappers, they have basic nutrition info like fat, sodium, carbs, etc. on the wrapper.
So yeah, they're not hiding it and I don't think it's losing them any business.
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That sexy momma Bloodsage:
I've been to several McDonald's where the nutrition info was printed on the paper mats in the trays. The info is also available on their web site. Beware morons with political agendas who create "documentaries."
Actually, Supersize Me probably prompted places like McDonalds to make visibly available nutritional information. They also removed the Supersized meal option, though personally I don't see much difference between the Large and Supersize.
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Reynar put down Tada! magazine long enough to type:
I rarely visit McDonalds, but the few I've been too around my area all have their nutrional info blown up on giant posters right near where you order.Same for Taco Bell, they even advocate "responsible eating" on their posters.
What do the posters say? "IF YOU EAT THIS, YOU WILL GET e.COLI"?
Under capitalism, man exploits man. Under communism, it's just the opposite. - John Kenneth Galbraith
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I suppose the same could be said of all Kaits...
Reminds me of when I watched Supersize Me, and the guy went around to McDonald's asking to see their nutrition chart, and half the places couldn't even find theirs or knew about it, I think it said. Maybe on the corporate level they're informed enough, but actually getting word to the people is a lot harder. I wonder what if they started printing the charts on the wrapper, maybe on the inside? They'd never do it though, people might idly check it out, realize how fatty the burger they were holding right in their hands was, and never eat there again
People who read Nutrition Charts and actually care about what's printed on them already don't eat at places like McDonald's, and if they do, they do it already knowing it's not good for you.
I don't really think there are many people that actually think that most Fast Food options are good for you.
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Azymyth attempted to be funny by writing:
Actually, Supersize Me probably prompted places like McDonalds to make visibly available nutritional information. They also removed the Supersized meal option, though personally I don't see much difference between the Large and Supersize.
Not really. It has always been available, usually on the tray inserts. Even when I worked thier nearly 15 years ago it was available.
That's not even including competitors each having thier comparison charts and such. Like Subway does now, BurgerKing, Wendy's, and McD's all had thier "Our burger is bad, but its not has bad as THIER burger!" charts way back then.
Plus all SuperSize Me managed to prove was that, if you are an idiot, don't excercise at all, and eat NOTHING but McDonalds for 30 days... You get fat. Eureka! Pure genious... He was a moron, and in many ways worse than Michael Moore on a purely stupid level.
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Nobody really understood why Faelynn LeAndris wrote:
Plus all SuperSize Me managed to prove was that, if you are an idiot, don't excercise at all, and eat NOTHING but McDonalds for 30 days... You get fat. Eureka! Pure genious... He was a moron, and in many ways worse than Michael Moore on a purely stupid level.
He was also a shining example of a significant percentage of the American population.
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This insanity brought to you by The Berserker:
Who here didn't know that eating McDonalds constantly, and not exercising at all?
I am a vampire and
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Over the mountain, in between the ups and downs, I ran into Ja'Deth Issar Ka'bael who doth quote:
Maradon?You can't take one statement made by one person and use it as a definitive example of their political orientation.
You can if that one statement is definitive evidence of a given political orientation.
For example: If you believe the rights of individuals should be subjugate to the greater benefit of society, you are, by definition, a collectivist.
There simply is no more to the deal - the concept of what a collectivist is has certain criteria, and agreement with the provided statement puts you in compliance with those criteria.
Likewise, the word Fascist is derived from the italian Fasce which is a stick, beam, or rod that may be used to hit people. It was coined in reference to groups and individuals who believe in manipulation by force of arms.
If you believe in manipulation of the public by force of arms, you are, by the very definition of the word, a fascist. There simply isn't any more to the conversation.
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Furthermore, threat of violence? No one is going to come down to these businesses and club someone for selling products with trans-fats. They'll get a fine. And then another fine. And then they'll be given a cease and desist order or have their restaurant license pulled.
Everything that any government does is ultimately backed by violence and nothing else. That is ultimately what a government IS - an organization which we allow to impose violence upon us, collectively.
In dealing with the government, your only available choices are compliance or violence. The only thing that ever changes are the conditions of compliance.
You're right, the restaraunt will be fined, and if they fail to pay the fine eventually a man with a gun will show up and force them. If they do not COMPLY and pay the fine, they will be taken to jail. If they do not COMPLY and go to jail voluntarily, they will be taken by FORCE OF ARMS.
I'm not an alarmist, you've simply failed to follow the course of events to their ultimate and inevitable conclusion: Compliance, or violence. This is not a bad thing necessarily, as there are individuals and situations which very much warrant violence, but it's for this reason that we must be supremely judicious about the domains and aspects of our lives which we give over to government control.
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Channeling the spirit of Sherlock Holmes, Azymyth absently fondled Watson and proclaimed:
Actually, Supersize Me probably prompted places like McDonalds to make visibly available nutritional information. They also removed the Supersized meal option, though personally I don't see much difference between the Large and Supersize.
No--the things I spoke of existed long before that film.
--Satan, quoted by John Milton
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x--Inferno-SpiritO-('-'Q) :
He was also a shining example of a significant percentage of the American population.
Actually, no, he wasn't - far from it.
Morgan Spurlocks modus operandi is setting up textbook examples of strawmen - he arranges a hilariously extreme scenario, shows that it's bad, and pushes the implication that the actual, realistic versions of these scenarios are as bad as the one he is portraying.
Eating McDonalds every day, for every meal, always eating the biggest fattest meal they have, and always "supersizing it" is an unbelievable departure from the behavior of any reasonable human being. There is no plague of people eating mcdonalds biggest meal for every meal, every day of their entire lives. To suggest so is flatly stupid.
Another example is his "minimum wage" stunt wherein he frequently had to fight to find a minimum wage job and stay in it - the series was almost canceled multiple times because he couldn't FIND a minimum wage job that wasn't going to quickly promote him out of minimum wage. Yet another hilariously extreme strawman scenario. Maradon! fucked around with this message on 12-07-2006 at 01:38 AM.
The UK is already there. Yay. 
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Maradon! had this to say about Punky Brewster:
For example: If you believe the rights of individuals should be subjugate to the greater benefit of society, you are, by definition, a collectivist.
Do you even read the stuff you write? You should probably think about your definition of a collectivist, and determine whether it's a bad thing.
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Maradon! was naked while typing this:
Actually, no, he wasn't - far from it.Morgan Spurlocks modus operandi is setting up textbook examples of strawmen - he arranges a hilariously extreme scenario, shows that it's bad, and pushes the implication that the actual, realistic versions of these scenarios are as bad as the one he is portraying.
Eating McDonalds every day, for every meal, always eating the biggest fattest meal they have, and always "supersizing it" is an unbelievable departure from the behavior of any reasonable human being. There is no plague of people eating mcdonalds biggest meal for every meal, every day of their entire lives. To suggest so is flatly stupid.
Another example is his "minimum wage" stunt wherein he frequently had to fight to find a minimum wage job and stay in it - the series was almost canceled multiple times because he couldn't FIND a minimum wage job that wasn't going to quickly promote him out of minimum wage. Yet another hilariously extreme strawman scenario.
He took it to an obscene extreme, yes. But there is a plague of people eating so poorly that a significant percentage of the entire country is having increasingly tragic health problems. Obesity rates are at an all-time high, drastically increased over the rates from twenty years ago. The largest cause of this is food-habits, followed immediately by exercise habits.
Did he do something extreme that a reasonable person would not, in fact, do? Yes. That doesn't change that over a third of the US adult population is overweight, and it's going to get worse before it gets better.
Sorry, sorry. Had a fact wrong. Two-thirds of the American population are overweight. One-third is obese. Inferno-Spirit fucked around with this message on 12-07-2006 at 03:01 AM.
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Maradon! had this to say about Duck Tales:
Likewise, the word Fascist is derived from the italian Fasce which is a stick, beam, or rod that may be used to hit people. It was coined in reference to groups and individuals who believe in manipulation by force of arms.
Actually, the fasces, or laurum de fascibus was a Roman symbol of power. It consisted of an axe surrounded by a bundle of weak sticks of birch, tied with a ribbon--the bundle of birch means that while each stick is weak individually, together they are strong. The axe is a symbol of power over life and death, and the strength of Rome.
It means "Strength through Unity", and was used as a staff of office. The latin word 'fascis' simply means 'bundle'. Or, perhaps, 'faggot'.
There's a bit of history for you. 
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Pvednes had this to say about Reading Rainbow:
Actually, the fasces, or laurum de fascibus was a Roman symbol of power. It consisted of an axe surrounded by a bundle of weak sticks of birch, tied with a ribbon--the bundle of birch means that while each stick is weak individually, together they are strong. The axe is a symbol of power over life and death, and the strength of Rome.It means "Strength through Unity", and was used as a staff of office. The latin word 'fascis' simply means 'bundle'. Or, perhaps, 'faggot'.
There's a bit of history for you.
Have children with me.
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Azymyth had this to say about John Romero:
Actually, Supersize Me probably prompted places like McDonalds to make visibly available nutritional information. They also removed the Supersized meal option, though personally I don't see much difference between the Large and Supersize.
I began working at McDonald's three years before the movie came out and we had giant posters of the nutritional information right next to the ordering counter at all four locations I worked at prior to the movie coming out.
The corporation also began polling Franchise Owners and Restaurant Managers about the posibility of removing the Supersize option over two years before the movie was made and the decision to remove it from the menu was made a little less than a year before the was made. A fact which the movie maker knew when he was making the film.
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Snoota's account was hax0red to write:
I began working at McDonald's three years before the movie came out and we had giant posters of the nutritional information right next to the ordering counter at all four locations I worked at prior to the movie coming out.The corporation also began polling Franchise Owners and Restaurant Managers about the posibility of removing the Supersize option over two years before the movie was made and the decision to remove it from the menu was made a little less than a year before the was made. A fact which the movie maker knew when he was making the film.
...That's really crappy x.x So the entire movie was, erm, somewhat fake? Not that eating a diet entirely of McDonalds food will make you sick, but that the supersize me and nutritional charts aren't nearly the problem he makes them out to be? I feel wronged ;_;
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This insanity brought to you by Kait:
...That's really crappy x.x So the entire movie was, erm, somewhat fake? Not that eating a diet entirely of McDonalds food will make you sick, but that the supersize me and nutritional charts aren't nearly the problem he makes them out to be? I feel wronged ;_;
Well nobody ever accused you of being clever.
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Inferno-Spirit stumbled drunkenly to the keyboard and typed:
Sorry, sorry. Had a fact wrong. Two-thirds of the American population are overweight. One-third is obese.
So not a single person in our fair country is within their normal weight 
Ever check the requirements for being considered "overweight"? They are way off most of the time.
I know it's Wikipedia, but the chart is correct: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Body_mass_index
6'3" tall person who is over 200 pounds is considered "overweight" -- gimmie a break. Anyone who has any muscle mass will fall into this category. Reynar fucked around with this message on 12-07-2006 at 01:21 PM.
When you bite into a cheeseburger, do you think, "Man, I wonder just how many calories is in this burger?" or do you think "Damn, this is a good cheeseburger."?
I mean, the information should be available, but you'd have to be pretty retarded to think that you're truly eating something healthy for your body as you bite into something like a Triple BK Stacker.
It's kinda like having "Product Contains Peanuts" on the side of a bag of peanuts.
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Reynar stumbled drunkenly to the keyboard and typed:
So not a single person in our fair country is within their normal weightEver check the requirements for being considered "overweight"? They are way off most of the time.
I know it's Wikipedia, but the chart is correct: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Body_mass_index
6'3" tall person who is over 200 pounds is considered "overweight" -- gimmie a break. Anyone who has any muscle mass will fall into this category.
An obese person is also considered overweight, har har.
The BMI scale is notably innaccurate for competitive athletes, but it's not that bad. If you look at the BMI range for a 5'9" person (168-202), for example, the range seems appropriate and reasonable. It's explained pretty clearly further down on that page, actually.
However, there are 50% more overweight Americans, over 100% more obese Americans than there were 25 years ago. Combined with the fact that people are statistically less active than they were 25 years ago, it isn't reasonable to state that the trend of increasing BMIs are due to people entering the "muscular but fit" range that sneaks into the overweight category.
This also doesn't apply well to the obese range, where it becomes extremely unlikely to maintain a BMI in that range while still being considered fit.
quote:Except that's not the "normal" weight range for someone who is 5'9". Refer to this BMI calculator. The weight range you just quoted is the overweight range for that height.
Roll the dice to see if Inferno-Spirit is getting drunk!
If you look at the BMI range for a 5'9" person (168-202), for example, the range seems appropriate and reasonable.
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This insanity brought to you by `Doc:
Except that's not the "normal" weight range for someone who is 5'9". Refer to this BMI calculator. The weight range you just quoted is the overweight range for that height.
I know. Are you saying that 200lbs is not overweight for a 5'9" individual?
The problem here is that there is a cut-off because statistical analysis requires one. It's not that simple, obviously. If you are 5'9" and 161lbs, and you're a "normal" weight, then gain a pound, you don't suddenly become overweight. If you weigh 200, it's not really in question except for certain cases. It isn't really possible to have a classification system that doesn't misjudge certain cases, but as far as the BMI scale goes, it is very functional and practical, and accurate as long as it's limitations are taken into account. It also works very well for large-scale data-gathering. It's certainly more functional than an IQ test, say.
Just because people aren't unhappy with the specifics of the BMI scale doesn't change that the information it gathers can easily and accurately be used to compare differences in population over time.
I eat, though. Alot. 
quote:No, the fact that they changed the standard makes it useless for comparing differences over time. Fifteen years ago, the normal weight range for men my height was 125-175 lbs. Now it's 125-154 lbs. This means that my current weight was considered healthy, but is now considered overweight. While it is likely that the average American weighs more now than he/she did 25 years ago, it cannot be discerned what portion of the statistical change comes from the change in standards as opposed to the change in people.
See, your Inferno-Spirit means your hair. So technically it's true.
Just because people aren't unhappy with the specifics of the BMI scale doesn't change that the information it gathers can easily and accurately be used to compare differences in population over time.
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Tarquinn got a good feeling!
This reminds me of the burglar in Germany who whas declared certifiably insane in court, because he could prove that he was eating nothing but McDonald's fast food for three months.
Wow. I'm tempted to go to Germany and try that, but then I'd get extradited, and...hmm...50/50, I guess.
Disclaimer: I'm just kidding, I love all living things.
The fastest draw in the Crest.
"The Internet is MY critical thinking course." -Maradon
"Gambling for the husband, an abortion for the wife and fireworks for the kids they chose to keep? Fuck you, Disneyland. The Pine Ridge Indian Reservation is the happiest place on Earth." -JooJooFlop
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We were all impressed when Tarquinn wrote:
This reminds me of the burglar in Germany who whas declared certifiably insane in court, because he could prove that he was eating nothing but McDonald's fast food for three months.
So THAT'S where the Hamburglar went!
It is held in thought
only by the understanding
of the Wind.
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This insanity brought to you by Bloodsage:
There's also a clear qualitative difference between poisons like mercury and arsenic which, regardless of dosage or other factors have direct, predictably fatal consequences. . .and a substance that might, if one has other risk factors and leads an otherwise unhealthy lifestyle and overindulges over a long period of time might increase the risk of heart or arterial damage that may or may not result--eventually--in death.
According to the experts who had like a 30 minute interview on the subject this morning, YOU LIE! There is no difference, and WE MUST PROTECT THE CHILDREN!
The guy was horribly retarded I think.
