edit: Gamespot isn't saying that.

Willias fucked around with this message on 07-30-2006 at 03:25 PM.

quote:

---

Willias had this to say about Captain Planet:
edit: Gamespot isn't saying that.

---

Yes they are; they're stating that E3 as it is currently will be cancelled. A smaller version will be started in its place.

Quite frankly, I'm not surprised and I don't think this is a bad thing. E3 has gotten too big, with too much money being thrown around, and too many people attending the show. I'd say it's no longer a trade show. While there are obviously some downsides to this, I think the death of E3 is better for the industry and gamers.

On the other? I can see a lot of the larger companies being pretty irritated with this.

I'm frankly of the mind of the latter. Larger conventions with more attendance will always get better media exposure than smaller events.

quote:

---

Mooj's account was hax0red to write:
On the one hand, I can see how it would work out better for smaller game companies.

On the other? I can see a lot of the larger companies being pretty irritated with this.

I'm frankly of the mind of the latter. Larger conventions with more attendance will always get better media exposure than smaller events.

---

Actually, the larger publishers are one of the complainers. They're going into the eight figure range for this now, just because they have to be bigger and better than the next guy in hopes to get more coverage.

Smaller studios pay what they want, because they're going to get passed over for Nintendo, Sony, and Microsoft by the big crowds anyway and they're still going to get some coverage.

Both sides will also be happy that their game development won't need to revolve around E3. Getting those screenshots, gameplay videos, or demos ready for E3 was an annoyance and definitely didn't help development schedules.

Larger doesn't necessarily mean better. E3 is supposed to be a trade show, not a massive event. Perhaps the biggest issue in recent years is that the show was getting too big for its own good. Letting too many in was one of the major issues with the show. A smaller, more focused event will still have perfectly good coverage, and that is the route it looks like they're going to go with in the replacement event.

It isn't like coverage wasn't good several years ago, when the show was smaller. Smaller shows, like the GDC, TGS, CES, etc. also get plenty of coverage. We'll argueably see better coverage with a smaller event, because the press allowed in will have more time to focus on the games than dealing with the mess of the event.

quote:

---

Talonus wrote this stupid crap:
Actually, the larger publishers are one of the complainers. They're going into the eight figure range for this now, just because they have to be bigger and better than the next guy in hopes to get more coverage.

Smaller studios pay what they want, because they're going to get passed over for Nintendo, Sony, and Microsoft by the big crowds anyway and they're still going to get some coverage.

Both sides will also be happy that their game development won't need to revolve around E3. Getting those screenshots, gameplay videos, or demos ready for E3 was an annoyance and definitely didn't help development schedules.

Larger doesn't necessarily mean better. E3 is supposed to be a trade show, not a massive event. Perhaps the biggest issue in recent years is that the show was getting too big for its own good. Letting too many in was one of the major issues with the show. A smaller, more focused event will still have perfectly good coverage, and that is the route it looks like they're going to go with in the replacement event.

It isn't like coverage wasn't good several years ago, when the show was smaller. Smaller shows, like the GDC, TGS, CES, etc. also get plenty of coverage. We'll argueably see better coverage with a smaller event, because the press allowed in will have more time to focus on the games than dealing with the mess of the event.

---

Given that E3 initially started small too, I can't see that happening in the long run.

Companies are still going to try to top each other.

Other shows may rise up and Dethrone E3 as the king of all gaming media. The companies will once again find themselves developing around yet another convention.

The GDC I'm not really sure about size-wise. TGS, though, is just as big as E3, and they let the public in for one day to boot. CES is a joke. It was what the game industry used before they made E3.

I am genuinely shocked.

Sigh, I really hate to say this and sound like a fanboy, but it sounds to me like Sony took a lot of lumps at E3 '06 with regards to the PS3, and they're looking for a scapegoat to blame for it.

quote:

---

Mooj said this about your mom:
So apparently it was Sony, Microsoft, and EA Games who were the ones responsible for this.

I am genuinely shocked.

Sigh, I really hate to say this and sound like a fanboy, but it sounds to me like Sony took a lot of lumps at E3 '06 with regards to the PS3, and they're looking for a scapegoat to blame for it.

---

Yes, because everyone should be THRILLED to pay a thousand smacks for a goddamn video game.

I hope Sony goes to hell and I hope Mooj goes to heck because he's convenient.

ESA confirms smaller E3 in '07.

quote:

---

Fazum'Zen Fastfist obviously shouldn't have said:
"The Playstation 3 will be like a fine steak dinner, whereas the other platforms will be like takeout." - Hideo Kojima

---

I eat more takeout than fine steaks.

quote:

---

Everyone wondered WTF when Fazum'Zen Fastfist wrote:
"The Playstation 3 will be like a fine steak dinner, whereas the other platforms will be like takeout." - Hideo Kojima

---

This from the man who nearly ruined the Metal Gear Franchise with Raiden in MGS2.

quote:

---

How.... Anakha.... uughhhhhh:
This from the man who nearly ruined the Metal Gear Franchise with Raiden in MGS2.

---

From the man that made the Metal Gear Solid franchise.

"Metal Gear Solid 3 is very much about eating the snake." - Hideo Kojima

quote:

---

Anakha painfully thought these words up:
This from the man who nearly ruined the Metal Gear Franchise with Raiden in MGS2.

---

Hahaha what

What the fuck are you babbling about

Now instead of one crunch time a year there will be 3 or 4 if they intend to try to make it to some of the smaller ones. Until they decide to just go with one, that will end up being the biggest one, that will end up being the way E3 was again! OMG the circle never ends!

Personally I don't really see the cancellation as that big a deal, but I think that for the complaints stated they are going about it the wrong way.

edit: Changed an "it" to be more specific

Ragabash fucked around with this message on 07-31-2006 at 07:07 PM.

quote:

---

When the babel fish was in place, it was apparent Ragabash said:
If they were complaining about having to pay so much to outdo the others then...don't! As was stated, the smaller companies don't and still get coverage, so wtf. They don't HAVE to pay all that money if they don't think they'll get a good return on it as an investment.

---

Bigger companies like MS, Sony, EA, and Nintendo are expected to have a big preference. They have to have big areas to show a larger number of games, while smaller companies only need to show a a few games at most. While they didn't need to spend in the eight figures, they still needed to spend a lot to show everything that was expected of them. On the other hand, they could spend maybe six figures max for a smaller show or press conferences.

Also, don't forget the dev commitment that is required. April is basically a dead month for gaming companies as they prepare for E3. For a larger company, this means they have to coordinate many more projects for the show. It's it a hell of a lot of work for the big guys.

quote:

---

Cobalt Katze had this to say about Duck Tales:
I'm mainly just baffled over the new name. E3Expo. I guess redundancy is lost on them.

---

Uh, what? From what I read on Gamespot:

quote:

---

Lowenstein also revealed to the WSJ that E3 is also getting a new name. Starting next year, the event will be called the "E3 Media Festival," hinting that it may offer more than just games.

---

What platform is trying to push themselves as a media device rather than a game player with other forms of media support? I... I can't quite put my finger on it...

quote:

---

Mooj's fortune cookie read:
Gee, I wonder WHICH company would be responsible for THAT change.

What platform is trying to push themselves as a media device rather than a game player with other forms of media support? I... I can't quite put my finger on it...

---

Microsony?

quote:

---

Falaanla Marr impressed everyone with:
Uh, what? From what I read on Gamespot:

---

Lowenstein called it the E3 Expo in his address (doesn't make sense to me either). The new name wasn't revealed till the WSJ article came out.

quote:

---

Mooj thought about the meaning of life:
Gee, I wonder WHICH company would be responsible for THAT change.

What platform is trying to push themselves as a media device rather than a game player with other forms of media support? I... I can't quite put my finger on it...

---

Oy. Nintendo, Sony, Microsoft, and EA were the big four to push leaving. Nintendo, Sony, Microsoft, and other smaller console developers have systems out that do more than just play games. *gasp* Plus, they're used for more than just entertainment, especially in Nintendo's case. *gasp* Plus, there was an increasing amount of non-game content at E3 already, especially in Kentia Hall. *gasp* Oh, and the event will be for the media exclusively, rather than everyone who created a blog to get in or all the EB/Gamestop employees who just wanted to go and play games. *gasp* I don't see why you're blaming Sony for this.

I am well aware of what happens at E3. I spent about four hours in Kentia hall at this year's event. Consequently, I'm not just blaming Sony for this. I'm blaming Microsoft as well, and EA games also. All three companies, mind you, had a rather lackluster showing at this year's show when compared to other members of the industry.

EDIT: Also, show me anything that shows that Squaresoft, Capcom, or Sega had anything to do with this, as they, along with Nintendo, had some of the best showings this year, according to industry analysts.

Mooj fucked around with this message on 07-31-2006 at 10:26 PM.

quote:

---

Anakha.
This from the man who nearly ruined the Metal Gear Franchise with Raiden in MGS2.

---

quote:

---

Ja'Deth Issar Ka'bael had this to say about Captain Planet:
Raiden didn't irritate me as much as the bizarro Li-La-Lu-Le-Lo thinger at the end. Made me feel my "hip to conspiracy theories" membership was out of date.

---

Exactly.

Raiden by himself wouldn't have been bad, but when you toss in the bullshit about VR and conspiracy upon conspiracy on top of conspiracy, that whiny bitch Rose, and the prissy feel-good "WE CONTROL OUR DESTINEY!" shit, things started unraveling.

Intrigue is good, when used in moderation.

Sadly, MGS4 has shown me nothing to get excited about

quote:

---

Check out the big brain on Mooj!
Show me something that says Nintendo had anything to do with this decision. I've been crawling over gaming news sites all day, and not one of them that I've seen have listed Nintendo along with Microsoft and Sony on this.

I am well aware of what happens at E3. I spent about four hours in Kentia hall at this year's event. Consequently, I'm not just blaming Sony for this. I'm blaming Microsoft as well, and EA games also. All three companies, mind you, had a rather lackluster showing at this year's show when compared to other members of the industry.

EDIT: Also, show me anything that shows that Squaresoft, Capcom, or Sega had anything to do with this, as they, along with Nintendo, had some of the best showings this year, according to industry analysts.

---

NextGen was one of the original sites to reported it, and they've reported Nintendo being in on it. Admittedly, originally I saw MS, Sony, EA, and THQ being the ones to complain about the cost. Nintendo being in on it is entirely understandable, as these four are the big four in terms of booth sioze. Cost for theatrics aside, they all needed big booths to show off their games. Cost for booth size increased greatly every year, as it was tied to attendance numbers. It was in the ESA's best interest to continue flooding E3 so the big guys had to pay more.

As far as blame goes, there's plenty to go around. If they aren't seeing the returns they expect for the cost of E3, why shouldn't they pull out? Where's the requirement that they have to come? All of them have had bad showings before, including Nintendo, but now the cost actually matters. They can get the same press and coverage by holding their own show or press conference, and the pre-E3 press conferences were a good example of that. Don't forget to blame the ESA and gamers as well, who both had a hand in making the show worse in recent years.

And I haven't seen anything about Square-Enix, Capcom, or Sega complaining. Like I said, the biggest guys had the biggest problems. Those three are big, but nowhere near the size of the big four.

Not sure why you see it as so much an issue considering you attended the show, unless you were one of the ones who didn't belong there. Journalists are happy about this. Dev companies are happy about this. Publishers are happy about this. Even the ESA seems fine with it. The only ones who seem to have a problem were those that attended or wanted to attend that had no place being at E3, like EB/Gamestop employees or those who created a fake gaming blog to get in.

Talonus fucked around with this message on 08-01-2006 at 07:13 AM.

quote:

---

Get the soap! Fazum'Zen Fastfist just said:
"The Playstation 3 will be like a fine steak dinner, whereas the other platforms will be like takeout." - Hideo Kojima

---

"Take out that will taste exactly the same as the fine steak dinner for 66% of the cost."

And then I guess neither of you played Snake Eater where most of it got explained to anyone who cared to listen, not to mention the balls to the wall awesome that the game itself was.

quote:

---

Ja'Deth Issar Ka'bael.
Haven't had a chance to play Snake Eater/Subsistence yet.

---

quote:

---

Ja'Deth Issar Ka'bael had this to say about Punky Brewster:
Haven't had a chance to play Snake Eater/Subsistence yet. I don't recall reading or seeing in MGS1 any reference to Raiden, much less any indication he's been in the game as long as Snake or is a fantastic badass. Indications in MGS2 is that he was being trained as a replacement for Snake.

---

In MGS3 (Which you have to play zomg... get Subsistence btw, controllable camera makes it an entirely new, entirely awesome game) they make fun of Raiden so bad. So bad. I almost feel bad for the putz.

Although I do like that they seem to be trying to redeem him in MGS4 as per the video footage released a while back

quote:

---

Vorago.
Although I do like that they seem to be trying to redeem him in MGS4 as per the video footage released a while back

---

quote:

---

Nobody really understood why Talonus wrote:
NextGen was one of the original sites to reported it, and they've reported Nintendo being in on it. Admittedly, originally I saw MS, Sony, EA, and THQ being the ones to complain about the cost. Nintendo being in on it is entirely understandable, as these four are the big four in terms of booth sioze. Cost for theatrics aside, they all needed big booths to show off their games. Cost for booth size increased greatly every year, as it was tied to attendance numbers. It was in the ESA's best interest to continue flooding E3 so the big guys had to pay more.

As far as blame goes, there's plenty to go around. If they aren't seeing the returns they expect for the cost of E3, why shouldn't they pull out? Where's the requirement that they have to come? All of them have had bad showings before, including Nintendo, but now the cost actually matters. They can get the same press and coverage by holding their own show or press conference, and the pre-E3 press conferences were a good example of that. Don't forget to blame the ESA and gamers as well, who both had a hand in making the show worse in recent years.

And I haven't seen anything about Square-Enix, Capcom, or Sega complaining. Like I said, the biggest guys had the biggest problems. Those three are big, but nowhere near the size of the big four.

Not sure why you see it as so much an issue considering you attended the show, unless you were one of the ones who didn't belong there. Journalists are happy about this. Dev companies are happy about this. Publishers are happy about this. Even the ESA seems fine with it. The only ones who seem to have a problem were those that attended or wanted to attend that had no place being at E3, like EB/Gamestop employees or those who created a fake gaming blog to get in.

---

I'll give you three reasons why I'm upset with this.

1. Like it or not, this event got more media exposure than any other trade show in existence. It brought attention to an industry that needs all the positive attention that it can get. The way that they're planning the event next year? Invitation only, in a hotel, in a format where game companies won't need to compete with each other or even bring a playable demo? Appointments scheduled to be talked to about games in a cubicle, or if the game companies really shell out the cash, a meeting room. Woo. Oh, and did I mention that they're already saying that vendor space is seriously limited? Gee, I guess this works out really well for the smaller companies.

That format will not work to spur on the industry. All it's going to do is turn into a wank-fest where game companies know that anyone who has an appointment with them will sit down, listen to what they have to say, and they'll repeat it to the world like a trained parrot. Without having to worry about being called on their bullshit, the exhibitors are going to have no reason to pull out their A game, and the entire industry is going to suffer for it.

2. The industry WANTS the glitz and the glamour. You really think this is going to do anything to make the companies calm down? You really think this is going to save them money? At the next E3, money will be saved, and production schedules will maintain intact. Of course, at the OTHER shows that the industry attends, nothing is going to change. Game companies are still going to compete with all the expense that they did at E3, and now they're gonna be even more extravagant with it because there's not going to be an industry standard mega show for at least another two years now. Have you looked a PAX lately, and how many companies are starting to gravitate that way? I won't say it's going to become the new industry show, but it's certainly shaping up to look that way.

And that's to say nothing of the events that each company puts on on their own in addition to all the shows they have to attend with their competition. And don't kid yourself into thinking that these events will get even close to the media exposure that E3 got. The pre-E3 press conferences were, get this, E3 related!

3. And this is the big one. The game industry pulled out of CES for much the same reason that E3 is now being scaled back. Costs, lack of returns, lack of apparent appreciation, yadda yadda blah blah. Study your history, this has happened before.

I will bet fifty bucks right now that by 2009, E3 is going to be either the same-sized show that it was in 2006, or it's going to be dead, and there is going to be a slightly smaller NEW industry show picking up where E3 left off. This new show will struggle with logistics at first, but by 2011 we won't be able to tell how it's any different from E3.

I have little doubt that journalists, development teams, and publishers are happy about this now. Of course they are, it's being hyped up just for them. The ESA is not going to say "Oh, hey guys, we're going to change this into a steaming pile of shit just for you!" I blame the ESA for this too, Doug Lowenstein came off as looking like a jackass IN MY OPINION when he released his press release and interviews. My point remains, however, that the ESA had little choice in the matter once Sony and Microsoft pulled out. (I might believe that Nintendo did too, but as of yet I haven't seen anything to that end other than people posting it on message boards.) You can't have an industry show without the major players.

For every journalist that's happy with this, though, there's one that's saying "E3 is dead, and gaming is going to suffer for it." Just look around the net right now, at the major game reporting sites.

EDIT: Oh, and by the way. I attended the show as a guest of Square Enix this year. The show did little to prevent people from getting in in the first place if they knew what to do. On that end, I agree that there was a problem. I personally would have set up the show more like the TGS, with a one day opening to the public, but that's just me, and I give the American public too much credit to not fuck it up.

SON OF EDIT: Also, don't think that the game industry is making any friends with this. The City of Los Angeles is losing out on a HUGE amount of annual revenue because of this, and they're not gonna be happy about that at all. The Game Industry does not need to make more enemies in the political world right now.

Mooj fucked around with this message on 08-01-2006 at 01:43 PM.

Raiden's six years old. His parents are murdered and he's adopted by the very man who killed them. This man puts him into service during the Liberian civil war, where he is part of the Les Infantes Terribles project. Fucked up psycho kid butchers, and they are all exceedingly good at what they do.

Following the war he's shipped off to America, brainwashed the fuck out to forget the war, and drafted into the reformed FOXHOUND by then-President George Sears. Who is his adopted father, if you haven't been keeping track.

As training for FOXHOUND he undergoes an obscene amount of VR simulations (Metal Gear Solid: VR Missions, plus simulations of Metal Gear Solid and the tanker chapter of MGS2), before he's put through his final training exercise, the Big Shell itself.

He kills his own daddy (Solidus Snake, if you're following along at home), meets up with SOLID SNAKE himself, and fucks up the Patriots' plans by letting their identity fall into the hands of Snake and Otacon. Then he meets up with Rose who is pregnant ( ) before joining Philanthropy (Snake & Otacon).

Somewhere between Sons of Liberty and Guns of the Patriots Raiden gets majorly fucked up and becomes a fucking cyborg ninja to rival Grey Fox himself. That's why he looks so weird in all the MGS4 trailers.

Now, all you fuckers best step off my man Jack.

Sean fucked around with this message on 08-01-2006 at 01:47 PM.

quote:

---

Sean.
Actually I'm just speculating about Raiden joining Philanthropy but it's not that important anyway.

---

The way he acts, on the other hand, is not how badasses are supposed to act.

Snake is a badass. Raiden is a sniveling vagina.