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Blackened's unholy Backstreet Boys obsession manifested in:
Funny you mention that. I know someone currently in med school (just finished his first year), and he claims that the majority of doctors and students who do watch an "ER Drama" show watch Grey's. And they say it can be surprisingly accurate at times.

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That doesn't make it any less annoying.

ER was touted as fairly accurate too, even training with real doctors, but it wasn't nearly as annoying back in the day.

Grey's we have all your typical teen drama whining crap, only they are adults.

Ugh, I hate that show... and Monica watches it religiously. You can only listen to so much "Woes me, I slept with another woman's husband, but he wants her back now, but I still love him, WHAT CAN I DO!" and "Woes me, men always take advantage of me because Im an idiot." or "Woes me, why wont she love me, I can be less of a loser!" before you start wanting to gouge out your eyes.

Faelynn LeAndris fucked around with this message on 06-20-2006 at 07:08 PM.

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Faelynn LeAndrising:
The stuff being described here was around long before feminism gathered strength and stems from age old stereotypes and humor.

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I never said it was a product of feminism, I only said that most feminists don't give a rat's ass about equality.

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Men have always seen and portrayed themselves as victimized innocents, it's been pretty much the corner stone of married/dating men's barroom talk and social events forever.

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I'm not talking about that, as I indicated in my previous post. I'm talking about series and cartoons where girls are portrayed as smarter, more skilled, and in other ways inherently superior to men simply because of their gender. Kim Possible is a good, obvious example - all the boys in this show are total bumbling idiots while all the girls are empowered, skilled, and intelligent. Make a show exactly like that, but reverse the genders, and you'll have people marching in the fucking streets threatening to burn the studio down.

I honestly don't watch TV religiously so the names of shows and specific examples escape me, but any time I turn on a kids cartoon made in america in the past 5 years there's about a 50% chance that I'm going to see a girl being portrayed as inherently superior to boys because of her gender. Not only that, but listen to almost any female comedian, watch almost any movie that deals with the topic, and you'll see the same thing.

Feminists DON'T give a shit about equality.

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This insanity brought to you by Maradon!:
Make a show exactly like that, but reverse the genders, and you'll have people marching in the fucking streets threatening to burn the studio down.

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Danny Phantom, Max 10.

With the exception of when it covers the issues of the male characters liking a girl, and they become inherantly more stupid. But again, even that is an age old joke of male IQ dropping when they like a girl.

Male comedians do the exact same thing, btw. Blue Collar is a good example.

Edit: I agree on the basis of your argument however. Feminists care less about equality than they do about prominance. Which is my biggest beef. Like the Feminists who cry foul constantly, but you damn well better take them to dinner and pay for em, and make sure you open that door!

Faelynn LeAndris fucked around with this message on 06-20-2006 at 07:18 PM.

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Peanut butter ass Shaq Faelynn LeAndris booooze lime pole over bench lick:
Danny Phantom, Max 10.

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I've never even seen either of these shows, but I can already guarantee you that neither of them even approaches the level of belittlement present in Kim Possible and other "grrl power" shows. At the very worst they'll have no female main characters, but once a female extra starts to take a more prominant role for any reason they will repeatedly be portrayed as dominant to the male main characters.

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Edit: I agree on the basis of your argument however. Feminists care less about equality than they do about prominance. Which is my biggest beef. Like the Feminists who cry foul constantly, but you damn well better take them to dinner and pay for em, and make sure you open that door!

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Any feminist that would not protest sexist portrayals of either men or women with equal zeal does not care about equality.

Even describing yourself as a "feminist" suggests that you only care about advancing female causes, which in itself is enough to qualify one as a sexist in the same manner that describing one's self as a chauvinist would.

Maradon! fucked around with this message on 06-20-2006 at 07:24 PM.

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We were all impressed when Maradon! wrote:
I've never even seen either of these shows, but I can already guarantee you that neither of them even approaches the level of belittlement present in Kim Possible and other "grrl power" shows. At the very worst they'll have no female main characters, but once a female extra starts to take a more prominant role for any reason they will repeatedly be portrayed as dominant to the male main characters.

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Danny Phantom is on all the time. There are actually 4 female main supporting non extra characters. One is a sidekick sort, but ends up making things worse, one is the sister always messing things up under a guise of not caring when she really does. One is the do-gooder who is completely oblivious. The last its a ditz and a half cheerleader type who is always complicating things.

Having two little girls I don't mind there being "Girl Power" shows as I'd rather my girls have more to relate to than meekness and reclusiveness. There are just as many "Boy Shows".

Another example on the Boy/Girl thing is a horribly retarded show, that grates on my nerves, but the girls still watch it. Thats "Brandy and Mr Whiskers" where it is just a male and female lead. The male being a retarded metally challenged Rabbit, who ironically is still usually in the right and better off than the female. While the female character is portrayed as a self-centered, shopoholic, valley girl, dumb blond who wants it her way all the time and usually ends up screwing everything up all the time and having to learn some obvious, yet ignored, valuable life lesson (retarded as thier life lessons may be).

More proof that he's not all there.

Wah.

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Maradon!'s got nothing.

Any feminist that would not protest sexist portrayals of either men or women with equal zeal does not care about equality.

Even describing yourself as a "feminist" suggests that you only care about advancing female causes, which in itself is enough to qualify one as a sexist in the same manner that describing one's self as a chauvinist would.

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I'm sorry, do you not understand that tv shows are specifically crafted to appeal to a certain audiance in order to be able to target advertising?

The whole point of Kim Possible is that self respecting boys wouldn't watch it, but girls would. That way Barbie and Bratz and girl shit like that will pay top dollar.

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The logic train ran off the tracks when Karnaj said:
Shinto. In fact, ancient Japan, from around 300 CE up until the Heian period (around 700-800 CE), while not expressly matriarchal, did hold women in high regard. In fact, women could be clan leaders, priests, and even empresses. The Imperial family of Japan is believed to be descended from the chief deity in Shinto, the sun goddess, Amaterasu Omikami.

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Forgive me for sweeping my response to you and others into one reply, but it's probably easier that way.

Most religions have an origin where females are in some dominant form. Animist and polytheistic religions in particular are believed to have started with women ascendant. The popular belief is that as hunter-gatherer societies slowly turned to agriculture, religion was probably used as a means of regulating when you do certain things (plant crops, reap the harvest, etc). And there's evidence found that it was women who were the holy leaders, rather than men.

So you are absolutely right that there was a time (which did in fact last longer in the East than in the West) where women were the shiznit. In terms of theology. In part, believe it or not (and it's going to sound sexist, but it's true) because it was most likely women who figured out the sex/babies connection first. So women had the lock on when babies were born, and women had the lock on the agricultural knowledge. So they were pretty hot shit. But like most things, it wasn't going to last. Sooner or later people caught on.

The matriarchal system survived longer in Asia largely because of cultural momentum driven by China, that spilled into other countries. Keep in mind that Japan is really sort of a rebellious offshoot of ancient China. Even the word "Shinto" comes from "Shen Tao" in Chinese.

But let's look at the theological/mythological figures more closely. Yes in eastern religions you saw strong female goddesses. But there was far more emphasis on their being married or associated with an equally powerful god, than there was necessity of a god being connected to a goddess. In western religions you have the notion of virgin goddesses. People will immediately latch on to Artemis/Diana, who was more or less defined as being a virgin, but also keep in mind Athena (god of wisdom, tactics, and valorous war) was considered to be a virgin goddess. And she was ultimately under Zeus' command. In Norse mythology, women scarce had identities. Sif (Thor's wife) appears only rarely, and her big claim to fame is that Loki shaved her head and she ended up with a really nice wig out of the deal.

And further, things change as the religion evolves. The cult of Kali, for instance, is an offshoot of something else. Parvati is the wife of Siva, who is the Destroyer god. Originally Parvati had her own small church, but eventually it devolved more toward the Kali cult (and the thugees). Athena became less of a war deity and more of a wisdom deity. Artemis became less of a huntress and more of a moon goddess. And yes, while the goddesses of eastern faiths promoted strong female leaders in the community, they too were ultimately discounted.

Keep in mind that Shinto as a religion has ALWAYS had to compete with Buddhism and Taoism, to the point that the gods have fallen by the wayside in favor of the philosophy of Shintoism.

So my challenge was a bit too...simplistic. I concede that. But (with a bit of clarification) I stand by my assertion that, by evolution or de-evolution, there's no active major faith that has strong female roles. Women are generally relegated to support or adjunctory roles, or are the nag.

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Ja'Deth Issar Ka'bael is watching T.J. Hooker with a prostitute.
So my challenge was a bit too...simplistic. I concede that. But (with a bit of clarification) I stand by my assertion that, by evolution or de-evolution, there's no active major faith that has strong female roles. Women are generally relegated to support or adjunctory roles, or are the nag.

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Hinduism, especially in the Bengali region of India, worships Durga as the supreme godhead and as the Mother God. In regions with Brahma as the supreme godhead, there's mostly a balance between male and female gods. Gender has never mattered much in the Hindu pantheon, unlike its importance in Indian tradition.

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Peanut butter ass Shaq Blindy. booooze lime pole over bench lick:
I'm sorry, do you not understand that tv shows are specifically crafted to appeal to a certain audiance in order to be able to target advertising?

The whole point of Kim Possible is that self respecting boys wouldn't watch it, but girls would. That way Barbie and Bratz and girl shit like that will pay top dollar.

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And this justifies sexist and belittling portrayals of males... how?

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Maradon!'s got nothing.

And this justifies sexist and belittling portrayals of males... how?

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Because the purpose of the show is to fucking sell toys. Empowerment of women or social messages of any kind are a side effect. You're acting as if there is a purpose behind the way they have all the male characters be non-heros in a tv show designed from the ground up to appeal to pre-adolesent girls.

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x--Blindy.O-('-'Q) :
Because the purpose of the show is to fucking sell toys. Empowerment of women or social messages of any kind are a side effect. You're acting as if there is a purpose behind the way they have all the male characters be non-heros in a tv show designed from the ground up to appeal to pre-adolesent girls.

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So by your logic, sexism is OK so long as it's only being used as a marketing ploy?

So it'd be 100% OK if someone made a children's show where all the girls are repeatedly proven to be good for nothing but cooking and cleaning and serving men, and all the men in the show are portrayed as the source of the only good in the world, so long as they used the premise to sell toys, right?

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Maradon! isn't in Kansas anymore:
So by your logic, sexism is OK so long as it's only being used as a marketing ploy?

So it'd be 100% OK if someone made a children's show where all the girls are repeatedly proven to be good for nothing but cooking and cleaning and serving men, and all the men in the show are portrayed as the source of the only good in the world, so long as they used the premise to sell toys, right?

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I'm OK with weak male characters in a show designed to appeal to girls and only girls, just like I'm OK with the action hero saving the super model's life in a big budget block buster action flick.

Blindy. fucked around with this message on 06-21-2006 at 02:37 PM.

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Maradon! thought this was the Ricky Martin Fan Club Forum and wrote:
So by your logic, sexism is OK so long as it's only being used as a marketing ploy?

So it'd be 100% OK if someone made a children's show where all the girls are repeatedly proven to be good for nothing but cooking and cleaning and serving men, and all the men in the show are portrayed as the source of the only good in the world, so long as they used the premise to sell toys, right?

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I'd watch it.

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Maradon! painfully thought these words up:
Kim Possible is a good, obvious example - all the boys in this show are total bumbling idiots while all the girls are empowered, skilled, and intelligent. Make a show exactly like that, but reverse the genders, and you'll have people marching in the fucking streets threatening to burn the studio down.

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24 has been going for 5 seasons now.

Arttemis fucked around with this message on 06-21-2006 at 03:09 PM.

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Maradon! screamed this from the crapper:
So by your logic, sexism is OK so long as it's only being used as a marketing ploy?

So it'd be 100% OK if someone made a children's show where all the girls are repeatedly proven to be good for nothing but cooking and cleaning and serving men, and all the men in the show are portrayed as the source of the only good in the world, so long as they used the premise to sell toys, right?

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Well, of course that's fine. Ain't no point in disguising the truth.

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Sean was listening to Cher while typing:
I cannot think of a single sitcom where the wife is the 'villain' or idiot.

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Married With Children?

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Palador ChibiDragon, what the hell are you doin' out here? You oughta be in bed.
Married With Children?

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Ended before the PC-spree even began.

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Sean needs the precioussses:
Ended before the PC-spree even began.

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War at Home? Both parrents are drunken morons and smoke pot.

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Blindy. had this to say about John Romero:
War at Home? Both parrents are drunken morons and smoke pot.

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That's the one with the guy who wants to be Giovanni Ribisi, right? I don't think I've ever seen it.

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Maradon! had this to say about Captain Planet:
So by your logic, sexism is OK so long as it's only being used as a marketing ploy?

So it'd be 100% OK if someone made a children's show where all the girls are repeatedly proven to be good for nothing but cooking and cleaning and serving men, and all the men in the show are portrayed as the source of the only good in the world, so long as they used the premise to sell toys, right?

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Cooking and cleaning are easy anyway, why do you think girls can do it?

It is, I think, a bit difficult to market children's shows unisexually. There are certain things that girls and boys are usually interested in at any particular age, and it would make more sense to pick a demographic and go for it. That's how marketing works. That's why BET has like 95% black people on it, that's why Lifetime plays shitty chick flicks, and that's why MTV plays shitty music that appeals mainly to the under-14 crowd. They have to appeal an audience somewhere. That's how that shit works.

In short: Get over it, ya damn crybaby.

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Vallo obviously shouldn't have said:
I like Kim Possible

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me too

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Did they say why, Mr. Gainsborough, why they want you to terminate my command?
me too

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A lot of people do!

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Everyone wondered WTF when Arttemis wrote:
24 has been going for 5 seasons now.

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I wanted to mention it too. Or a show like House, or even My Name is Earl.

Edit: Wtf, how does Sean get away with this shit

Noxhil2 fucked around with this message on 06-23-2006 at 01:20 AM.

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Noxhil2 got all f'ed up on Angel Dust and wrote:
]Edit: Wtf, how does Sean get away with this shit

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this is a really dumb question im sorry