This time it's Charlie Sheen weighing in on 9-11. In his expert opinion: it was all controlled and manipulated by the US government. There were no planes; the towers were deliberately imploded by explosives.

Wow. Just wow. We really need to make public stupidity a capital offense.

'Cause, you know, we're the ones that were throwing people into industrial plastic shredders and torturing children in bee-sting rooms to get at their parents. Yeah.

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Karnajing:
I'm guessing his show needed a boost in the ratings, so he uncorked some stupid to garner attention.

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Unfortunately, the lunacy among these people regarding extreme moonbat leftism is not an act.

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Karnaj had this to say about Duck Tales:
I'm guessing his show needed a boost in the ratings, so he uncorked some stupid to garner attention.

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Oooohhhh, you mean Two and a Half Men. I never really liked the show, reminded me of Three Men and a Baby.

Lechium fucked around with this message on 03-23-2006 at 05:14 PM.

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Mr. Parcelan had this to say about Matthew Broderick:
I had a nice spiel wrought, but I think this summarizes my point nicely: celebrities are useless.

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Then why are they paid so much?

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The logic train ran off the tracks when JooJooFlop said:
Then why are they paid so much?

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They'd be perfect if they just stuck to acting/singing/being black/whatever, but the moment they start supporting dictators, forming conspiracies about 9/11, demand they be written into the Bible, it's over.

It's okay to have a political opinion as a celebrity, but if you insist on bringing your opinions out, you owe it to society not to be an idiot.

Which is why my favorite celebrities are still Morgan Freeman, Stephen Colbert, Jon Stewart and Michael Chiklis, the original fantastic four.

He's a fucking crackpot idiot, but he's not the first fucking crackpot idiot.

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Mr. Parcelan had this to say about Cuba:
They'd be perfect if they just stuck to acting/singing/being black/whatever, but the moment they start supporting dictators, forming conspiracies about 9/11, demand they be written into the Bible, it's over.

It's okay to have a political opinion as a celebrity, but if you insist on bringing your opinions out, you owe it to society not to be an idiot.
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I figured it was that these guys get all this money and fame and somehow get the idea that they are like important.

Unfortunately, for every negative celeb, you have celebs who say something that makes sense. Bill Cosby's tirade about how black culture needs to grow up was a particularly apt example of this.

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Ja'Deth Issar Ka'bael smells kinda like pancakes:
Unfortunately, for every negative celeb, you have celebs who say something that makes sense. Bill Cosby's tirade about how black culture needs to grow up was a particularly apt example of this.

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Wait, that's unfortunate?

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Maradon! got all f'ed up on Angel Dust and wrote:

'Cause, you know, we're the ones that were throwing people into industrial plastic shredders and torturing children in bee-sting rooms to get at their parents. Yeah.

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I'm not going to defend Iraq's ex-dictator in any way, but these two claims are so over the top and of a comical villainy that I ask myself if they have ever been proven.

Tarquinn fucked around with this message on 03-24-2006 at 01:54 AM.

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Tarquinn has the right stuff
I'm not going to defend Iraq's ex-dictator in any way, but these two claims are so over the top and of a comical "villainess" that I ask myself if they have ever been proven.

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The Smoking Gun has a list of his various tortures that were cited as human rights violation. The History Channel also ran a special on him that covered a lot of his brutal businesses.

I can't confirm Maradon's individual accusations, but he did some pretty foul stuff. He was also fond of mind games, such as mock executions, stalking people until they were driven to madness, creating elaborate criminal backgrounds and torturing children.

George Clooney is out of his mind.

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Channeling the spirit of Sherlock Holmes, Tarquinn absently fondled Watson and proclaimed:
I'm not going to defend Iraq's ex-dictator in any way, but these two claims are so over the top and of a comical villainy that I ask myself if they have ever been proven.

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If you read up on what happened under Saddam and his sons, it does read like a bad comic book. It's unfortunate that people's common sense self-defense mechanisms work in his favor, and folks don't believe the things that really went on.

It strikes me as insane that you have people staging protests where they are coming down on governmental actions and in the same breath, calling blessings down on IEDs, insurgents, even the terrorists who attacked the WTC.

I cant understand how the terrorists became the good guys and the government because the bad guys.

It pisses me off that treason is so very hard to prove, because a lot of these people are engaging in it in some form or another.

Hell, that one journalist who was imbedded with the army in Aphganistan should have been charged and tried when he drew that fucking map in the sand for the camara.

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Azakias got all f'ed up on Angel Dust and wrote:
Stuff

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Ah good...the ignorant totalitarian military perspective. It was going to be you or Led, as usual, and I guess you were quicker on the draw this time around.

But then someone who quotes a ludicrous claim that it's a soldier who gives us freedom of speech in their signature is bound to make some idiot claims.

The strength and power of any country is in it's people. No government, no military gives us the right to freedom of speech, freedom of religion, freedom to be assholes. We, the people, do.

I may make tongue in cheek, pseudo-sarcastic comments about how it's "unfortunate" that we have to put up with the asshole celebrities in the world in order to hear legitimate perspectives, but I would never go so far as to accuse someone with a dissenting point of view of treason.

Celebrities, however obnoxious they are, however persuasive they may seem to be, are nothing but mouthpieces. Their popularity waxes and wanes on the basis of how much of the aforementioned populace pays attention. And in case you haven't noticed, the populace is more than capable of shrugging it's shoulders and ignoring (or downright booing in some cases) celebrities that get out of control. The Dixie Chicks, for instance, have not regained the popularity they had prior to their little "Bush is a wanker" campaign.

Some people think it's irresponsible for celebrities to take sides in anything going on in the political world. They're entities of the pop culture zeitgeist. When something like a war enters the public view, the celebrities are obviously going to respond to it. And like any other major topic, they'll break down into sides and camps and bandy-about their pet theories and beliefs.

And 99% of the time, the really serious ones are labeled kooks and fade from the limelight until people forget how stupid they were. The Dixie Chicks, for instance, are attempting a comeback. Martin Sheen doesn't go around protesting constantly like he used to. He likes living inside and eating food; IE he likes to work.

But NONE of them have gone overseas, picked up a weapon, and started killing troops. And the argument that some kid in Iraq is going to have his world changed because some kook with a too-big budget in the United States is going to drive said kid to go kill Americans is ludicrous. There's plenty of other more immediate and pressing reasons to pick up a weapon and wreak havoc that have nothing specific to do with American troops, much less what some mouthpiece half a world away is saying to some other mouthpiece half a world away.

So what if the squeaky-wheel types bitch and moan about what the military is up to? By and large they support the troops, they just don't agree with what the administration has the troops doing. And rest assured, they didn't agree with what the previous administration, the one before the previous administration, or the previous-to-the-previously-previous administration did either. They won't like what the next administration is going to do with the military either. People gripe and complain. It is, in my opinion, what people really want. They don't REALLY want world peace, or more money, or whatever. They essentially want things to be okay, and they want to bitch about it.

Threatening someone with a Guilty-Of-Treason verdict just because they're assholes is far more dangerous than just being an asshole. I understand that you're too close to the subject to be objective, but watch where you wave your militaristic, jingoistic indignation. We think celebrities can be assholes too, but going for the social equivalent of the nuclear option is just plain stupid.

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So quoth Bloodsage:
I still think public stupidity should be a capital crime.

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I think I should have the right to bargain independent of the United States government to get my hands on some giant pandas, but oh well.

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Bloodsage had this to say about John Romero:
I still think public stupidity should be a capital crime.

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Unless grossly hilarious, like when you step on a rake or something.

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Ja'Deth Issar Ka'baeling:
The strength and power of any country is in it's people. No government, no military gives us the right to freedom of speech, freedom of religion, freedom to be assholes. We, the people, do.

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You're missing the fact that both the government and, by extension, the military are duely appointed representatives of "We the people" and are composed entirely of "we the people."

The contention that the soldier gives us freedom is accurate, because without the soldier we could not be self-governing. If you believe otherwise, it's because you live in the magical fairyland that all blind pacifists live in: where the world does not contain any real threat to anybody, no real evil people who would harm anyone, only people whose grievances have not been properly addressed.

You yourself exhibit the willfull ignorance that is the trademark of the blindly pacifistic.

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I may make tongue in cheek, pseudo-sarcastic comments about how it's "unfortunate" that we have to put up with the asshole celebrities in the world in order to hear legitimate perspectives...

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Only accurate perspectives are legitimate.

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But NONE of them have gone overseas, picked up a weapon, and started killing troops.

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That's an academic distinction only. Take vietnam, a war in which our military enjoyed near total victory in every battle, including the tet offensive, until politicians, celebrities, academics, and media moguls engineered their defeat and invited wholesale slaughter that would last for decades.

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So what if the squeaky-wheel types bitch and moan about what the military is up to? By and large they support the troops...

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No, they don't. They oppose the troops and hope for their death so they can have another statistic to give them political leverage.

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And rest assured, they didn't agree with what the previous administration, the one before the previous administration, or the previous-to-the-previously-previous administration did either.

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Weird, I don't remember peace rallies taking place when clinton was launching a conga line of cruise missiles into the middle east...

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Threatening someone with a Guilty-Of-Treason verdict just because they're assholes is far more dangerous than just being an asshole. I understand that you're too close to the subject to be objective, but watch where you wave your militaristic, jingoistic indignation. We think celebrities can be assholes too, but going for the social equivalent of the nuclear option is just plain stupid.

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People who may be guilty of treason should be tried for treason.

Just what do you think treason is?

Maradon! fucked around with this message on 03-24-2006 at 08:34 PM.

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Verily, the chocolate bunny rabits doth run and play while Ja'Deth Issar Ka'bael gently hums:
I think I should have the right to bargain independent of the United States government to get my hands on some giant pandas, but oh well.

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You can, but the fees back to China are pretty steep. I think I just heard zoos have to pay $1M/year to "lease" a panda pair, and another $600K for any babies born.

Maradon will have to wait for my response. I've blown my wad of vitriol for now.

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Ja'Deth Issar Ka'bael had this to say about Jimmy Carter:
Things

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Ja'Deth Issar Ka'bael thought about the meaning of life:
Maradon will have to wait for my response. I've blown my wad of vitriol for now.

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Try to do it in less words next time. Nobody's impressed with your essays anymore except you.

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Check out the big brain on Mr. Parcelan!
Try to do it in less words next time. Nobody's impressed with your essays anymore except you.

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I'm impressed enough for everyone. You know you want to fondle my lobes.

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Ja'Deth Issar Ka'bael had this to say about (_|_):
Ah good...the ignorant totalitarian military perspective.

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Way to go for an unexpected attack there. I did not intend my post to be an attempt at sounding salty, for your information. I actually made a point of pointing out that not only the military, but many government institutions are painted as ugly...

However, here is a rather broad breakdown of the treason laws in the constitution. I'm not going further into it since I dont want to derail more than already done.

On a slightly related, but not really, note, do I really come off as some rabid military woe-is-me?

Cause I hope not.

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Ja'Deth Issar Ka'bael had this to say about Duck Tales:
I think I should have the right to bargain independent of the United States government to get my hands on some giant pandas, but oh well.

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What about miniature, bonsai pandas? Maybe you can get your hands on those.

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Azakias had this to say about Jimmy Carter:

On a slightly related, but not really, note, do I really come off as some rabid military woe-is-me?

Cause I hope not.

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I don't think I actually answered your question though.

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Maradon! had this to say about Optimus Prime:
Take vietnam, a war in which our military enjoyed near total victory in every battle, including the tet offensive, until politicians, celebrities, academics, and media moguls engineered their defeat and invited wholesale slaughter that would last for decades.

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You should be very careful when you try and support your views with examples, because, quite frankly, your grasp of history, especially Cold War history is tenuous at best. I would highly recommend picking a couple different, conflicting, historiographic viewpoints and reading at least one book in each viewpoint before you try to cite the military sucesses in Vietnam as evidence of how treason sabotaged the Vietnam War.

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This insanity brought to you by Densetsu:
I am trying to be fair when I say this, because I understand the the military is your job, and probably a large part of your life. But I would say that at least half of your posts on any given subject have something to do with, are inspired by, or otherwise contain a reference to the military is some way, shape, or form.

I don't think I actually answered your question though.

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When you live and work on base most of your daily experiances are going to involve the military in some way.

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So quoth Noxhil2:
You should be very careful when you try and support your views with examples, because, quite frankly, your grasp of history, especially Cold War history is tenuous at best. I would highly recommend picking a couple different, conflicting, historiographic viewpoints and reading at least one book in each viewpoint before you try to cite the military sucesses in Vietnam as evidence of how treason sabotaged the Vietnam War.

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Vietnam was a resounding tactical success. To argue any differant is lunacy. We were killing Vietnamies by the droves. We had a kill rate of 25:1. That's winning if I've ever seen it.

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On a slightly related, but not really, note, do I really come off as some rabid military woe-is-me?

Cause I hope not. [/QB]

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After having several relatives join the military one served in Vietnam another my age went to Iraq recently, I think its something ingrained in the training.

They Put brain juice in the water!!!

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The logic train ran off the tracks when Naimah said:
Vietnam was a resounding tactical success. To argue any differant is lunacy. We were killing Vietnamies by the droves. We had a kill rate of 25:1. That's winning if I've ever seen it.

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You have a very narrow view of warfare. Gouging victory is, in most situations, extremely hard and not as cut and dry as you make it out to be. The German army had incredible kill ratios on the eastern front all the way up to the fall of Berlin. The problem with just taking kill ratios at face value in Vietnam is that you discount cost of training and availability of recruits out of hand. Some Vietnamese kid with a cheap rifle is much easier to replace than a radio specialist or helicopter pilot. It also massively depends on the objectives of either side. Going by kills alone, D-Day was probably a sound defeat for the allies depending on what estimate for German casualties you choose. Domestic issues are as much a part of warfare as guns and planes. Look at the history of Euorpean warfare and you will see quite a few wars lost by means of local uprisings, political infighting, etc.

Saying that the U.S. actually kinda sorta won Vietnam but lost on a technicality is just silly. The U.S. failed to accomplish their objectives, despite the heavy losses they inflicted on their opponents, the fact that this was partly due to issues happening outside south-east Asia is irrelevant.

Oh and as for the actual topic of the thread, the guy is an actor, that's his job, one of the perks of the job is that people listen to what he says. Being an actor doesn't really make him more enlightened politically than someone who is a plumber or mathematician, it just provides him with a soapbox. I don't expect any thought-out political positions out of celebs because that is not their job, they act or sing, what he said is just outrageous because he gets TV time to say it, wander around town asking people about 9/11 and you'll find quite a few people who thing the same and will just shrug it off.

Maradon:

You're fighting some sort of 'blind pacifism' that no one in this thread advocated. Most opposition to recent U.S. military action stems not from pacifism but from the belief that American interests are not worth the death your foreign wars fought in defense of them cause. Hell even if Saddam had been behind 9/11, it would have taken a few dozen 9/11s to make the war a net gain in human life taking even conservative estimates of the number of Iraqi civillians killed during the course of the Iraq war so far into account. Unless you find someone saying that all violence, even in self defense is wrong all the time, stop arguing against such a position. Also you disregard the possiblity that those soldiers are being ordered around by the same 'real evil people' you speak of.

I also do not see why it is treasonous to think or say that a particular war your country is fighting is unjust or even to hope for the other side to win. Governments are not infallible and there should be no obligation for a citizen to support an unjust war.

You really should read up a bit on Vietnam. The Tet Offensive, contrary to popular belief both now and at the time, was a huge defeat militarily for the NV--it pretty much broke the back of their army. What was lacking, however, was political will on the American side, which ignored the military reality in favor of the hype and thus failed to capitalize on the victory. That, coupled with a broken strategy of gradual "pressure" and "messages", led to the pull-out.

You are correct in that the US did not achieve its political objectives, but it's fairly silly to claim the NV ability to field low-cost soldiers had anything to do with it. The war simply was not winnable by the NV except through a failure of will and/or policy on the US side; fortunately for them, that's what happened.

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Bloodsage had this to say about Matthew Broderick:
Mod,

You really should read up a bit on Vietnam. The Tet Offensive, contrary to popular belief both now and at the time, was a huge defeat militarily for the NV--it pretty much broke the back of their army. What was lacking, however, was political will on the American side, which ignored the military reality in favor of the hype and thus failed to capitalize on the victory. That, coupled with a broken strategy of gradual "pressure" and "messages", led to the pull-out.

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I was responding to Naimah saying that a 25:1 kill ratio was equal to victory, not making a point about Vietnam in particular.