Sure, it was great at first. It was new and exciting, and pulling was fun, and I felt useful. And then my role became the following: Go to raid, set someone on auto-follow, play video games on the TV. Yes, that's right, "standing behind the mobs and setting to auto-attack" wasn't part of my role as a Monk.

But don't get me wrong. Just because a game's raiding might be different, doesn't mean I would do it. I just never want to raid again.

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Mayor of Townsville painfully thought these words up:
The only reason I might consider buying DoD is this "play as a monster" feature I heard about. It sounds like an advanced version of that thing they had on Test a long, long time ago where you could play as a random mob, which I found incredibly fun.

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I'd consider it if they made high-end mobs a target for this play as a monster thing. But then you would get people who focus on healers and kill groups, and that would be a littl eunbalanced.

Might be fun though.

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Mayor of Townsville spewed forth this undeniable truth:
The only reason I might consider buying DoD is this "play as a monster" feature I heard about. It sounds like an advanced version of that thing they had on Test a long, long time ago where you could play as a random mob, which I found incredibly fun.

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It was also on the pvp servers. I think alot of people were bitching about it. So they, Sony, removed it to stop the constant belly aching. Which it was a shame. Love being a monster and biting the ass of an unsuspecting PC.

(I think there was a different reason why they removed it. Not because some killjoy hated the thought of a PC runned monster).

And I can't say I ever enjoyed raiding, Dens. There wasn't a lot for anench to do on most encounters. I've heard there are one or two from GoD and OoW that absolutely need enchanters, but the vast majority of raids we're just buff bots.

I love raiding bases in SWG, though. It's fast paced and there's a sense of constant danger, especially when you get inside. And I liked the small "raids" I did in EQ2, such as the Windstalker Rumbler.

But overall I'm with you. I want mess and excitement, not standing around waiting for my chance to hail the PP, or roll on loot.

I don't have an informed opinion on the high level raiding of either WoW or EQ. The only game I did that in was DAoC. (Raiding in DAoC was fun when it was for fun, and the suck when it was for master levels.) I tend to judge a game on its mid-game, being someone who used to rarely reach max level. (With each new game making it easier to reach max level, this is becoming less true, heh.) And mid-game EQ is definetely more complex than any MMORPG I've played since. Memorization, how aggro works, stuff like that all plays a part.

And yes, it does simply take longer to level. But that can be effective for maintaining longer term play as long as its not stupidly tedious, and does give a greater feeling of accomplishment. The only level I felt good about dinging in WoW mid-game was 40.

I enjoy it. I like there being actual doors instead of holes in the front of houses, NPCs that you can either attack or try talking to and thus really exist in the world, the dual-quest system, the world size and varied environments. I like EQ's dungeons much better than elite zones or DAoC's cut-'n-paste dungeons.

I love that there are no buses. I take buses in real life, I don't need to take them in my gaming life. I can walk, or I can port, but the bus system of griffins and horses doesn't work for me.

I don't play MMORPGs when I'm not having fun, except for guild administration purposes. I play casually, not worrying about having the best gear, and don't work too hard at leveling usually. So your mileage may indeed vary.

On the original subject though, maybe they'll finally fix the Damp Paws task now that the forces of Ykesha won the Innothule section of the war?

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Hireko thought about the meaning of life:
I love that there are no buses. I take buses in real life, I don't need to take them in my gaming life. I can walk, or I can port, but the bus system of griffins and horses doesn't work for me.

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There are. The PoK books are worse in my opinion than EQ2's griffin system. The griffins in EQ2 only take you so far. The rest is up to you. PoK books take you no more than a zone or two away from your aim. There's even one for the Arena now.

The game would be better without either, but if you're going to do it, do it the less annoying way at least!

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Lashanna don't surf!
PoK really destroyed my last senses of there ever being a world of Norrath (and my source of income, being a Wizard...) I just hated how small the world became after PoK. It felt too much like a video game. I didn't quit when PoK came out, but that really was the beginning of my EQ Depression. LDoN sealed the deal. For some reason EQ Instances bothered me a lot more than WoW or CoH.

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keep crying noob bish

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Check out the big brain on Lashanna!
PoK really destroyed my last senses of there ever being a world of Norrath (and my source of income, being a Wizard...) I just hated how small the world became after PoK. It felt too much like a video game. I didn't quit when PoK came out, but that really was the beginning of my EQ Depression. LDoN sealed the deal. For some reason EQ Instances bothered me a lot more than WoW or CoH.

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"Hey, I just made the run fron Qeynos to Freeport at Lv.1!"

"haha noob use the fukkin book"

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Willias had this to say about the Spice Girls:
The whole point of griffon riding in EQ2, horse riding in DAoC, and flight paths in WoW is that they give you a option to go quickly from place to place, but at the same time, allow the game to still seem large. PoK books just poof you from point A to point B. Some content in EQ is now completely unexplored just because of PoK books. In WoW, DAoC, and EQ2, at least you're still going to see a good portion of the game world, not just make it disappear.

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I understand the point of the bus systems. They work, for making the world seem large. But that doesn't stop them from detracting from my desire to play the game.

I am not enthused to log on and go hunt with my friends in Auberdine knowing that means a long, encounterless run, followed by three buses and a boat. Twenty minutes of not playing in order to get somewhere doesn't excite me.

I wouldn't mind if I had to make the run, with lots of dangerous encounters on the way. PvP or PvE encounters, either is good. It could take an hour, but as long as there was some interactivity and stuff to do, I would enjoy it. That would be fun, to see if I could make it. And if I couldn't, I would have at least been playing, then I'd have to go grab my corpse, with more playing. EQ used to be fun that way. I didn't get to half my groups in Velious, but I did enjoy trying!

I don't really mind porting. Its not as fun as running through zones with real level monsters and such, but at least I get to my destination quickly and get to group with my friends. Porting is kind of like playing on a blue server, it makes the game a little less exciting and immersive, but more convenient so you soon forget what you're missing and only feel a pang now and again.

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Hireko had this to say about Knight Rider:
I wouldn't mind if I had to make the run, with lots of dangerous encounters on the way. PvP or PvE encounters, either is good. It could take an hour, but as long as there was some interactivity and stuff to do, I would enjoy it. That would be fun, to see if I could make it. And if I couldn't, I would have at least been playing, then I'd have to go grab my corpse, with more playing. EQ used to be fun that way. I didn't get to half my groups in Velious, but I did enjoy trying!.

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Oh my god, that was some of the most annoying shit in the game. Also: your groups probably hated you

But I have to disagree with the opinion that PoK killed EQ's older zones. They were dead far earlier than PoK's book system. The game's become a leveling treadmill where everyone crowds into the newest zones. Hot zones have helped a bit, but not much.

I actually liked LDoN and DoN especially. I enjoyed the chance to keep my gear on par with new content without being forced to raid. The instanced adventures were fun and it wasn't just sitting around in one spot pulling. For me as an enchanter, that was a bigger positive.

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So quoth Lyinar Ka`Bael:

I actually liked LDoN and DoN especially.

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Haha, I still remember the night we were doing Takish and I got to run around and play enchanter on one of the stonegrabber guys. My pet was freaking uber!

That night gave me more respect for enchanters, lol.

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Kegwen impressed everyone with:
Oh my god, that was some of the most annoying shit in the game.

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Very yes

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Kegwen had this to say about Jimmy Carter:
Oh my god, that was some of the most annoying shit in the game. Also: your groups probably hated you

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Its not like taking forever to get to your group was uncommon, I played on Sullon Zek for most of my EQ time. Life was unpredictable, and intel on approaching goods & evils was always welcome. Besides, our leveling areas weren't anywhere near our hunting areas with the exception of Runneye. They might not hold your group spot while you ran from Rivervale to Splitpaw, but they certainly wouldn't begrudge you the time and hardship it took to get there.

Also... there's a perspective thing. I'm handicapped in real life. I'm becoming progressively moreso as time goes by. I haven't been able to actually run since my teens, and even mild walks are becoming a trial. Stairs are a daily challenge. So maybe I get something out of running across half of Velious with Selo's in my ears and virtual wind rustling my hair that other people don't.

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But to post in favor of EQ and use that as an example, you have to own up to the fact that the PoK system is the main means of transportation. With the addition of guild halls it's even easier, providing access to places like Lavastorm and Walls of Slaughter without needing a port.

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Oh, PoK is definetely the main transportation. And I don't think PoK did good things for the game. And I imagine back when only people with PoP could use it, it was worse! But if you're going to put in transit, I'd rather you go all the way and make it quick and easy. The in between forms just frustrate me and make me wonder why I logged on.

I'll give WoW this though... at least you could log out while on a griffin. In DAoC, you were stuck either jumping off in the middle of nowhere, or waiting till you got there. And WoW handled the pvp aspects of griffins very well, also unlike DAoC. (In DAoC, you could be attacked with spells while mounted, but couldn't fight back or even use defensive powers.) WoW in most every way did buses better.

How do EQ2 griffins work?

Not all zones have it, either. Thundering Steppes, the 20s level zone, does not have any sort of transit system like the griffins. It has the bell/boat system that you use to get to Nek forest but no cross-zone transportation.

And also, you are a bard. It was much more tedious for me as an enchanter or even a druid to have to run everywhere back in older EQ. So you're a bit biased, spoony bard

But yeah, my impressions of EQ are all bard impressions. Take 'em or leave 'em, heh. Also, I only own four expansions, which colors my perception somewhat. I'm working on picking them all up, but its slow. So your mileage not only may vary, but probably will.

The griffon's and boats take you to the cities and etc, but you still have to travel after you get to where you want at high levels. Also, you have to get to the other side of the griffon port before you can use it. I like that and, the exploring exp you get for just looking around.

Granted I miss the first months of everquest where a barbain in crushbone was rare and there was only 8 people in rathe mountians I knew it wouldn't last. The pok books made the world so small in combation with the ldon camp ports.

There is alot of hidden small stuff in old world everquest that is out of the way. It is mostly broke, not working, not even there etc.

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Dave said this about your mom:

I like that and, the exploring exp you get for just looking around.

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Have that in EQ2 as well, including within the city itself.