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Snoota had this to say about Reading Rainbow:
Manager Mode. Dynasty Mode. Owner Mode.All innovative changes to sports titles in the last few years.
All features that were implmented to a lesser degree in various other forms. Not to mention not entirely innovative in content, as much so as in execution.
For the most part, they are glorified Team Building features, or Tracking features, presented in a new way.
Also thats 3 innovations to how many hundreds of sports titles?
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Faelynn LeAndris had this to say about Captain Planet:
Also thats 3 innovations to how many hundreds of sports titles?
That's only the three that have occured in the last three or four years, and that's hardly a fair question when there's only two major companies that make sports games. 
And if you're counting "hundreds" of sports titles, you must be going all the way back to NES Baseball and Techmo Superbowl, at which point I'd like to point out that there have been hundreds of changes and innovations to the games since then!
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And I was all like 'Oh yeah?' and Snoota was all like:
That's only the three that have occured in the last three or four years, and that's hardly a fair question when there's only two major companies that make sports games.And if you're counting "hundreds" of sports titles, you must be going all the way back to NES Baseball and Techmo Superbowl, at which point I'd like to point out that there have been hundreds of changes and innovations to the games since then!
Yes, that was an exhageration, although not by much. Count all the different sports titles there are out there. At least 1 or 2 for each sports type at LEAST once a year from a few companies. With no real change from the last other than new rosters, and some presentation tweaks.
It's like nickle and diming the changes basically, but the initial point was, I believe, that nothing to warrant the same cost brand new as the last game cost with nothing new. And the "How many RPGs have bombed and been unanimously concidered worse than thier prequels over how many Sports games have done the same." which you can't really compare because they are always fundamentally the same.
WHY DID IT TAKE UNTIL 2003 FOR EA TO IMPLEMENT GROUP TACKLING IN THEIR FOOTBALL GAMES!? ARGH!@$&@!(%&!(%&!@%!(%
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This one time, at Maradon! camp:
I'd attempt to educate you as to why the fact that 3d scrabble sells better than Halo 2 ISN'T A BAD THING, but you'd just hide behind the same old "I didn't come here to argue" bullshit.
Argumentum Ad Hominem. Fallacial reasoning.
But I can't follow him at all.
It's not something people hear about.
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Sean had this to say about Pirotess:
I wish I had any idea of what Fae is trying to argue.But I can't follow him at all.
Yeah, me either. I picked the one sentence in his innitial post that I understood what he was getting at and just went with that one.
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From the book of Kait, chapter 3, verse 16:
Argumentum Ad Hominem. Fallacial reasoning.
Ad hominem fallacial reasoning that also happens to be true.
Yeah I add nothing else to this conversation. 
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Kait startled the peaceful upland Gorillas by blurting:
Argumentum Ad Hominem. Fallacial reasoning.
Actually, that's not an ad hominum argument, but rather a statement of your demonstrated past behavior.
And what the hell is "fallacial," and are you allowed to talk about it without the NSFW tag?
--Satan, quoted by John Milton
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Bloodsage had this to say about Punky Brewster:
Actually, that's not an ad hominum argument, but rather a statement of your demonstrated past behavior.And what the hell is "fallacial," and are you allowed to talk about it without the NSFW tag?
That's looptid!
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Sean painfully thought these words up:
I wish I had any idea of what Fae is trying to argue.But I can't follow him at all.
I may suck at writing skills or whatever, but my point to what I was getting at has been perfectly clear.
Snoota tried to Compare Sports games never being concidered worse than thier predesesors, while RPGs and whatnot it happens all the time.
Which can't really be compared since they remain fundamentally the same, with no real changes or improvements, while being based on a platform that is static to begin with. ie: Football will always be Football. So as long as they only tweak whatever they had before you can't really do worse.
Which led to the second minor point
It's like nickle and dime changes that in no way really warrant a full game cost for something that is basically equivalent to minor game patches or fixes. Where as in an RPG or Adventure, or most other types of games this isnt the case.
I don't even know what Kait was trying to get at in her original few posts, since it made no sense to me really, I really only made a comment on some of the things Snoota said later on. Faelynn LeAndris fucked around with this message on 05-04-2005 at 05:01 PM.
Arguing that a football game can't be innovative because it's still just football is silly.
--Satan, quoted by John Milton
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How.... Bloodsage.... uughhhhhh:
Are people really trying to deny the fundamental similarity of 75% of RPG games?Arguing that a football game can't be innovative because it's still just football is silly.
No, the difference is.
RPG games are unique and the adventures are typically different with entirely new content from one game to the next. Even ones the are exceptionally similar as in series.
Where as a Football game, no matter what they do.. You are still on a Field, picking plays, Playing... Football. They remain the same with only a minor tweak or change here and there that never goes beyond patch or fix status. Even the changes Snoota listed are one feature added to a basically identical game, per year.
Even in Zelda, which is a series, and remains for the most part fundamentally the same, each game is unique in setting, puzzles, items, interaction. Madden 2005, is Madden 2004 for the most part.
And those RPGs or Adventures that DO remain fundamentally the same, only adding a feature or two, typically release those feature updates at nearly half the cost of the full price original release as an "Expansion".
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Bloodsage had this to say about pies:
Are people really trying to deny the fundamental similarity of 75% of RPG games?Arguing that a football game can't be innovative because it's still just football is silly.
No, just that due to the nature of the underlying game it does not offer itself to implementation of large amounts of new locations and storylines or sweeping mechanics changes like an FPS or RPG.
Some of these things are just tweaks, but it's definately worth the 30 bucks it cost.
--Satan, quoted by John Milton
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So quoth Bloodsage:
Actually, that's not an ad hominum argument, but rather a statement of your demonstrated past behavior.
I can't put this eloquently no matter how hard I try, so. It's not so much hiding as trying to avoid overwhelming conflict when I have no chance of "winning." Maybe I don't know a lot, but I do watch the news, read the papers, find articles online etc. so it's not exactly like I spend all my time feeding off my own opinions. If it was in certain people's natures to actually discuss things with me as if I was a person with an opinion, and not a nitwit in need of being crushed, maybe I'd have more energy to respond. As it is, I only sound like the troll I am accused of being if ever I even mention anything about America, Americans, or the American way. God forbid I should have a dissenting opinion. -_-
Please don't flame me on this. Please.
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Bloodsage had this to say about Cuba:
I think we're just seeing a lot of people who aren't into sports games generalizing about stuff they're not into. Any of a billion RPG dungeon crawlers play just as similarly as football games do. Who cares if the scenery is a little different if the underlying mechanics of getting ahead in the world are so very similar? The various means of choosing plays (and for that matter the plays themselves), and of customizing teams, and of controlling and executing those plays vary as much between football games as many RPGs vary from each other.
Actually no, The only sports games Im not into are Racing Games, and Boxing. My favorites are Wrestling games personally. So no, I'm not generalizing about something I'm not into.
RPGs are not as similar as sports games, because a Sports game never changes, ever. You are always just playing Football, or always just playing Baseball. Thier content upgrades consist of Player changes to account for new Star players, and visual upgrades with some minor interface tweaks.
Even if you want to account for Gameplay mechanics being entirely the same, as in the case of Baldur's Gate: Dark Alliance and say the Everqrest Clone. (Even those mechanics weren't identical, but close enough for this comparison)no matter which way you wanna spin it you are absolutely not playing similar games. One is an entirely different experience than the other. Plays in a Sports game may vary slightly but they are all clones of every other play, and no matter how you wanna cut it the experience never changes in say a Football game. You are still playing Football, and the variation in plays or whatever can't even account for that.
And no, none of that realy varies between Football games other than possibly interface layout/implementation. The only difference between building teams even will depend on licensing on who has what player actually able to appear, or ones they may or maynot have overlooked.
--Satan, quoted by John Milton
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Quoth Kait:
I can't put this eloquently no matter how hard I try, so. It's not so much hiding as trying to avoid overwhelming conflict when I have no chance of "winning." Maybe I don't know a lot, but I do watch the news, read the papers, find articles online etc. so it's not exactly like I spend all my time feeding off my own opinions. If it was in certain people's natures to actually discuss things with me as if I was a person with an opinion, and not a nitwit in need of being crushed, maybe I'd have more energy to respond. As it is, I only sound like the troll I am accused of being if ever I even mention anything about America, Americans, or the American way. God forbid I should have a dissenting opinion. -_-Please don't flame me on this. Please.
Nice attempt at pathos, but what on earth does that have to do with what I said? I didn't ask you to justify your behavior; I simply pointed out the difference between citing someone's demonstrated actions and ad hominem reasoning.
--Satan, quoted by John Milton
sigpic courtesy of This Guy, original modified by me
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Snoota said this, then charged the door while shouting "CHONGO LONGO!":
But hey, maybe this just means someone will buy the MUTANT LEAGUE name from Sega! Fuck yeah!
YES
Disclaimer: I'm just kidding, I love all living things.
The fastest draw in the Crest.
"The Internet is MY critical thinking course." -Maradon
"Gambling for the husband, an abortion for the wife and fireworks for the kids they chose to keep? Fuck you, Disneyland. The Pine Ridge Indian Reservation is the happiest place on Earth." -JooJooFlop
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Ja'Deth Issar Ka'bael startled the peaceful upland Gorillas by blurting:
I'm happy Sage is posting more often again.
It'll be iffy until I have my office set up and the house put together. Took them two days to deliver my stuff, because the idiots only sent two guys and a truck that could only hold two crates (we had 9).
Now we've got a house full of boxes, and barely any room to move.
I've been posting as I troubleshoot my internet connection. Damn XP hiding all the relevant settings, and taking me forever to get it running with my router.
Should be back full up in a couple of weeks, though.
--Satan, quoted by John Milton
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Bloodsage had this to say about Robocop:
Nice attempt at pathos, but what on earth does that have to do with what I said? I didn't ask you to justify your behavior; I simply pointed out the difference between citing someone's demonstrated actions and ad hominem reasoning.
It was sort of directed at everyone, sorry :\ I just have the feeling if I name names, that's just going to incur more flamage.
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Fazum'Zen Fastfist had this to say about Jimmy Carter:
They already made 3D Scrabble, it was called Upwords.
Yeah I own upwords.... it sucks.
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TheOriginalZane wrote, obviously thinking too hard:
Man, I love golf games.Yeah I own upwords.... it sucks.
I think that would be more confusing than fun. Does it have different ways of viewing the board or something, so you can see all the letters at once? Man, just the thought of it gives me a headache.
But they shall NEVER make a video game of the cult classic, Snail Race!
Hahahahaha. *disappears into her memories*
"Don't want to sound like a fanboy, but I am with you. I'll buy it for sure, it's just a matter of for how long I will be playing it..."
- Silvast, Battle.net forums
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Fazum'Zen Fastfist had this to say about John Romero:
No, it's just Scrabble except you can stack letters so as to change words. It's basically a cry baby's Scrabble.
*confused*
Oh well, I have no interest in replacing the board game, anyway I take too much enjoyment out of moving friend's pieces when they aren't looking.
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Actually no, The only sports games Im not into are Racing Games, and Boxing. My favorites are Wrestling games personally. So no, I'm not generalizing about something I'm not into.
You really don't seem to have much experience. Quick: What was the big new feature introduced in Madden 2004? How about Madden 2005? What was the MVP series known as before 2003? What feature did MVP Baseball add that brought it to the forefront of baseball games?
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RPGs are not as similar as sports games, because a Sports game never changes, ever. You are always just playing Football, or always just playing Baseball. Thier content upgrades consist of Player changes to account for new Star players, and visual upgrades with some minor interface tweaks.
No, the basic concept of a sports game doesn't change. In a strange, twisted world, you are right. Sports games, however, DO change in the way they are played each year. While the content doesn't change, the method of playing the game does. In an RPG, however, the content changes but the way you play the game doesn't.
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Even if you want to account for Gameplay mechanics being entirely the same, as in the case of Baldur's Gate: Dark Alliance and say the Everqrest Clone. (Even those mechanics weren't identical, but close enough for this comparison)no matter which way you wanna spin it you are absolutely not playing similar games. One is an entirely different experience than the other. Plays in a Sports game may vary slightly but they are all clones of every other play, and no matter how you wanna cut it the experience never changes in say a Football game. You are still playing Football, and the variation in plays or whatever can't even account for that.
HAve you seen the new feature set planned for Madden 2006? In particular, look into the new way the passing game will play out. The game is going to be played vastly differently than Madden 2005 was. The RPGs you mentioned, however, are played the same way: beat the shit out of your X button until the controller breaks or you beat the game.
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And no, none of that realy varies between Football games other than possibly interface layout/implementation. The only difference between building teams even will depend on licensing on who has what player actually able to appear, or ones they may or maynot have overlooked.
Hint: It isn't a matter of "Who has what player to appear" in most games of recent memory. Save for the occasional star not appearing in MVP baseball (Quick: Who is John Dowd the replacement for?), the entire league of players is licensed each year.
Fae, dude...you seem to play RPGs pretty regularly but only have a passing interest in sports games. That is completely cool, too -- just don't try to argue points about sports games unless you play them regularly. Especially when people who do play them regularly prove you wrong.
i believe that this postulation is indeed true, am i correct fellas?!
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ACES! Another post by Falaanla Marr:
Hint: It isn't a matter of "Who has what player to appear" in most games of recent memory. Save for the occasional star not appearing in MVP baseball (Quick: Who is John Dowd the replacement for?), the entire league of players is licensed each year.
I got bored and turned off the salary cap and fair trades and went to make a dream team to mess around with for a season, and when I went to go trade a certain San Fransisco Giant for my DH and found John Dowd I was like, "What the fuck? Who the hell is John Dowd?"
