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Ahh man, I shot Drysart in the face.
Heisenberg's Uncertainty Principle has to do with the availability of knowledge; not whether the knowledge exists or not. Heisenberg doesn't guarantee free will, he only guarantees that we'd never have enough information to predetermine someone's decisions. Whether the well-defined biological processes that factor into a decision are known by mankind and written down in a book and fully documented or not doesn't change the fact that they either exist, and there is no free will; or do not exist, and there is.
So where've you been hidin', duder?
It's not something people hear about.
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Sean said this about your mom:
So where've you been hidin', duder?
He escaped! <blows a whistle for the Cookie Monster Secret Police to come after the loose Drysart>
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Katrinity impressed everyone with:
He escaped! <blows a whistle for the Cookie Monster Secret Police to come after the loose Drysart>
The fruits and veggies have dulled their senses.
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Channeling the spirit of Sherlock Holmes, Drysart absently fondled Watson and proclaimed:
Heisenberg's Uncertainty Principle has to do with the availability of knowledge; not whether the knowledge exists or not. Heisenberg doesn't guarantee free will, he only guarantees that we'd never have enough information to predetermine someone's decisions. Whether the well-defined biological processes that factor into a decision are known by mankind and written down in a book and fully documented or not doesn't change the fact that they either exist, and there is no free will; or do not exist, and there is.
Personally, I'd say that arguing that, while there is no free will, the underlying determinism of the universe is unknowable due to uncertainty is sort of silly.
And there's also ample evidence of randomness in the universe. Which is why mechanical determinism has no modern following in physics.
--Satan, quoted by John Milton
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ACES! Another post by Bloodsage:And there's also ample evidence of randomness in the universe. Which is why mechanical determinism has no modern following in physics.
But are we sure it's randomness? Perhaps they are just factors that we are unable ascertain at this time.
In any case, arguing for or against determinism is silly.
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Quoth Noxhil2:
But are we sure it's randomness? Perhaps they are just factors that we are unable ascertain at this time.
And maybe it's all magic, too.
--Satan, quoted by John Milton
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Bloodsage impressed everyone with:
And maybe it's all magic, too.
Maybe you and everyone that isn't me on these boards is just one of Lyinar or Deth's alts?
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Check out the big brain on Jensus!
That's still assuming the brain works on a quamtum level, IF true randomness turns out to definitely exist in QM.If that does happen though, I admit defeat.
was an interesting article in...SciAm? PopSci? I can't remember. In any case the operative theory was that what we perceive as reality is a 4d shadow of something grander. What was interesting about the article was that it alluded to the notion that what we perceive as unusual "quirks" are quite possibly iterations on a different level than the larger things we don't see, but which are operating according to a system.
I'm not doing it justice. Making it sound too much like some sort of scientific ineffable plan, but what was fascinating to me is that in one sense we may all be the equivalent of a TV image or comic book strip to what's really going on.
sigpic courtesy of This Guy, original modified by me
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Bloodsage came out of the closet to say:
And maybe it's all magic, too.
Very clever, young man, but it's turtles all the way down.
I take it you are only posting on this abandoned message board because your favourite home is down right now? YOU FUCKED WITH DEBT DIDN'T YOU?!
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Delidgamond came out of the closet to say:
WHO ARE YOU?!I take it you are only posting on this abandoned message board because your favourite home is down right now? YOU FUCKED WITH DEBT DIDN'T YOU?!
WWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWDONTFUCKWITHDEBTDONTFUCKWITHDEBTDONTFUCKWITHDEBTDONTFUCKWITHDEBTDONTFUCKWITHDEBTDONTFUCKWITHDEBTDONTFUCKWITHDEBTDONTFUCKWITHDEBTDONTFUCKWITHDEBT
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In a disastrous attempt to be funny and clever, Azizza wrote:
So someone is able to counter your badly thought out idea in a single sentence so you tell them to get out.
Sorry, you lose.
As Drysart explained, Bloodsage was just being an idiot.
gg hf though, Azizza!
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Ja'Deth Issar Ka'bael had this to say about Tron:
was an interesting article in...SciAm? PopSci? I can't remember. In any case the operative theory was that what we perceive as reality is a 4d shadow of something grander. What was interesting about the article was that it alluded to the notion that what we perceive as unusual "quirks" are quite possibly iterations on a different level than the larger things we don't see, but which are operating according to a system.I'm not doing it justice. Making it sound too much like some sort of scientific ineffable plan, but what was fascinating to me is that in one sense we may all be the equivalent of a TV image or comic book strip to what's really going on.
It'll be great if all the batshit Idealist philosophers were onto something this whole time.
It's very much like trying to analyse the meaning of the works of Shakespeare in terms of the individual letters, only in this case, you are abusing it far, far beyond that. Pvednes fucked around with this message on 04-12-2005 at 04:46 AM.
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Drysart startled the peaceful upland Gorillas by blurting:
Very clever, young man, but it's turtles all the way down.
Best comeback evar! 
--Satan, quoted by John Milton
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Verily, the chocolate bunny rabits doth run and play while Jensus gently hums:
As Bloodsage explained, I was just being an idiot.gg hf though, Azizza!
What thread were you reading? 
But I fixed it for you.
--Satan, quoted by John Milton
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Jensus was naked while typing this:
[QB]load of tripe[QB]
That would work if the world wasn't actively changing with each passing unit of time. You can't predict the future state of the world. Impulse Y processed by brain X might lead to Z today, but because of the ramifications that action Z caused, brain X might choose A instead of Z next time Y happens. Its called learning, your theory assumes that we don't have the capacity to learn and we're just crude AI.
With that said, I'd like to point out that everybody in this thread is wrong, and if you disagree with me, you're wrong.
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In a disastrous attempt to be funny and clever, Bloodsage wrote:
What thread were you reading?
But I fixed it for you.
Well then I'd like you to explain how exactly Heisenberg's uncertainty principle disproves anything I said since obviously you understand this much better than I do.
Maybe you're just withholding it because I'm not worthy or something though, I don't know.
EDIT: STOP THE PRESSES, you're right about a tiny byargument of what I said which is largely irrelevant to my main argument; that being that you could in theory predict any decision. Sorry about that! Free will doesn't start existing because of that, though, so I don't see your point in hammering that one in.
Alek: You're an idiot. I said that the current state of the brain would be defined as X. OBVIOUSLY, if you change the brain and therefore X, the equation will come out differently. What kind of an argument is that? Jensus fucked around with this message on 04-12-2005 at 02:44 PM.
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Snugglits Model 2000 was programmed to say:
With that said, I'd like to point out that everybody in this thread is wrong, and if you disagree with me, you're wrong.
But you're in this thread, so that means that you're wrong. But if you're wrong, then you must be right, which means you're wrong, which means...
Screw it, I'm gonna go get drunk. Alcohol > logic.
It is held in thought
only by the understanding
of the Wind.
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Jensus startled the peaceful upland Gorillas by blurting:
I see Bloodsage has decided not to elaborate on his highly acclaimed argument.
You see that Bloodsage has better things to do, like househunting. You should know better than to try silly tricks like, "He didn't immediately reply to my latest stupid argument, therefore he concedes the match!"
Sorry, but finding a place to live > pointing out the flaws in your pontificating. Only able to get on the internet at all because our hotel has a wi-fi net for guests.
--Satan, quoted by John Milton
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In a disastrous attempt to be funny and clever, Bloodsage wrote:
You see that Bloodsage has better things to do, like househunting. You should know better than to try silly tricks like, "He didn't immediately reply to my latest stupid argument, therefore he concedes the match!"
Sorry, but finding a place to live > pointing out the flaws in your pontificating. Only able to get on the internet at all because our hotel has a wi-fi net for guests.
Well that settles that, I guess you were right in the end.
If I have time, I'll post more.
--Satan, quoted by John Milton
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Jensus had this to say about Pirotess:
I just conceded defeat! Your masterful argumentation has convinced me that my theory is completely wrong!
Which, given the argument, you must do of your own free will. Yes?
It is held in thought
only by the understanding
of the Wind.
