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Azizza's account was hax0red to write:
While I agree that the Goat argument is pretty out there, it would not be a stretch for Pedophiles to jump on this and start arguing that their rights are being violated.
A minor can't enter into a legal contract.
edit: i know the burden of proof falls on me but I don't feel like typing it up right now. I can't explain myself scientifically, anyway Kegwen fucked around with this message on 04-05-2005 at 09:37 PM.
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This one time, at Azizza camp:
In addition I would like to see some No-Biased proof that Homosexuality is not chosen. Last I heard there was no concrete proof either way. They show a chemical imbalance in the brain that can predispose a person to being gay but they had not proven that it was completely decided for the person.On that note I have to go spend time With Cathy. I will check in to replay as I can.
We'll be sending opinionated nosy people with no vested stake in your relationship to tell you you're wrong shortly 
sigpic courtesy of This Guy, original modified by me
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Azizza wrote, obviously thinking too hard:
In addition I would like to see some No-Biased proof that Homosexuality is not chosen. Last I heard there was no concrete proof either way. They show a chemical imbalance in the brain that can predispose a person to being gay but they had not proven that it was completely decided for the person.On that note I have to go spend time With Cathy. I will check in to replay as I can.
So you could get yourself sexually turned on by a man?
Or stop yourself from being sexually turned on to women?
All those gays burned at the stake and resulting in the term fag being coined? They really wanted to be burned, I'm sure.
I'm sorry, but people act rebellious and do crazy things for temporary attention. Being gay isn't one of those "cool alternative lifestyles". They wouldn't stick with it to the point where they're killed for it unless ITS WHO THEY ARE.
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Demos wrote this then went back to looking for porn:
I'm sorry, but people act rebellious and do crazy things for temporary attention. Being gay isn't one of those "cool alternative lifestyles". They wouldn't stick with it to the point where they're killed for it unless ITS WHO THEY ARE.
To be fair, I've heard of people doing that. Not terribly common where I grew up, though
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Azizza screamed this from the crapper:
In addition I would like to see some No-Biased proof that Homosexuality is not chosen. Last I heard there was no concrete proof either way. They show a chemical imbalance in the brain that can predispose a person to being gay but they had not proven that it was completely decided for the person.
I will defer to religioustolerance.org, who have compiled and summarized numerous studies, which are cited on their site. I will select for you a few choice excerpts, in the event that you don't want to read the whole thing:
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We have described a number of studies which show that the propensity towards homosexuality is determined either:By genetic causes at conception, or
By environmental causes in the womb before birth.We are always watching for new studies into this phenomenon. We have found none that contradict the above conclusion.
Now, please tell me how a fetus can possibly choose of its own free will, its sexual orientation.
Anywho, the first studies are of physical characteristics, and all imply correlation, but not causation. The real heavy hitters are the genetic studies of twins, fraternal brothers, etc.
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Studies based on existing families:
Psychologist Michael Bailey of Northwestern University and Psychiatrist Richard Pillard of Boston University studied the sexual orientation of male siblings raised together since birth. He found that if one was homosexual then the chance of their sibling being homosexual was:Fifty two percent for their identical twin, who shared 100% of the same genes. This result was essentially identical to the separated identical twin studies described below. It shows that if one identical male twin is gay, then the other twin will probably also be gay -- whether raised in the same family or raised by different families.
Twenty-two percent for their non-identical twin; they share half of the same genes
About 10% for adopted or non-twin brothers; they share none to half of the same genes.This study also points to a very strong genetic factor at the time of conception. This type of study tends to have the same flaws as in the identical twin studies described below. The second twin might not be willing to admit to being homosexual. One sibling could be bisexual and identify themselves to the interviewer as a homosexual; the other could also be bisexual and be behaving as a homosexual.
J. M. Bailey, R. C. Pillard and others conducted a similar study of female identical twins raised in the same family, in which one twin identified herself as a lesbian. 14 The results showed that 48% (34 out of 71) of their twins also said that she is homosexual. Again, a very strong genetic component is indicated.
Now, as to direct study of genes, allow me to quote the the most important part:
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What proved the genetic nature of "gayness" was a pedigree test. This type of study examines the sexual orientation of the ancestors of many gay adults - both on their father's and mother's side. Some possible results from a pedigree study on Hamer's sample of gay adults would be:An approximately equal number of gays might be found on the mothers' side of the family, when compared to the fathers' side. Some gays may have many gay ancestors on their mother's side, whereas other gays may see the same effect on their father's side. But when all the results were lumped together, if the total numbers would be about equal, then the results could point to: "Gayness" being caused by environmental factors, or
"Gayness" being caused by some gene on a chromosome other than the X chromosome.A much larger number of gays might be found on the mother's side of the family. This would show conclusively that not only was the gene passed genetically, but that it is located somewhere on the X chromosome - since men always get their X chromosome only from their mother. This is called the "maternal effect." It is well known in genetics.
The researchers found that the second result was observed. A gay male from the population that Hamer studied would notice that more of his mother's brothers will be gay than his father's brothers; so too with the various classes of maternal cousins when compared to his paternal cousins. Thus, much male homosexuality is caused by a gene on the X chromosome. Hamer went on to find the approximate location on the chromosome where the gay-causing gene was located. He found that many of his subjects had an identical sequence on the Xq28 region of their X chromosome. This shows the approximate location of the "gay gene." Researchers speculated that a group of interacting genes (including one in this region) might be found to determine sexual orientation in males. This prediction came to pass. The statistical "p" value is a measure of the significance of a test: the probability that it could have happened by chance. P values less than 0.01 (1%) are considered very significant. The Hamer study had a P factor of 0.00001, and so is considered extremely reliable.The DNA of 36 pairs of lesbian sisters were also studied; no corresponding pattern has yet been found.
It should also be noted that the above results are tenative, so don't accept them as gospel, but simply as the strong evidence they are.
The studies on monozygotic twins are perhaps the most convincing:
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Similarly the cause of homosexuality has been attributed to lack of bonding between a child and the same-sex parent. This belief has been abandoned by almost all mental health professionals. However, many religious conservatives still promote this principle. Studies of identical twins have shown that if one twin is gay, the other has about a 55% of also being gay. Again, there is a very strong genetic component at work.Assume as a working assumption that 5% of adults are gay. A typical study would involve:
The interview of perhaps 2,000 males, all of whom had separately raised monozygotic twins.
The identification of about 100 gays.
Tracking down the other twin in each case, to determine their sexual orientation.Two possibilities are:
There is no genetic basis for sexual orientation. That is, a statement by Parents and Friends of Ex-gays is correct: "To date, all information and studies involving genetics have proven homosexuality to be environmental, not genetic." Then one would expect close to 5% of the second twins would also be gay.
A homosexual orientation is totally caused by genes. One would then expect that between 0 and 100% of the other twin would also be gay, depending upon a property of the gene called its "penetrance."This type of test has been performed by various groups of researchers. The first such study found that 100% of the second twins were also gay. But this study was based on a very small sample size; the results it turned out to be a statistical fluke. Subsequent, larger, tests all reported that somewhat in excess of 50% of the second twins are also gay. This indicates that genes play a very significant role in determining sexual orientation. however, the number is not 100%. This indicates that environment plays a role in determining sexual orientation. It might be an event in the womb, or in early childhood. Other studies, explained below, show that a person's eventual sexual orientation is determined before they reach school age.
One problem with this and similar studies is that the researchers can ask what a person's orientation is, but not necessarily get a valid answer; a gay individual may be so firmly "in the closet" that they will not admit even to a stranger what their actual orientation is. Also, most studies classify subjects as either heterosexual or homosexual. A bisexual person might be involved with persons of the opposite gender and consider themselves to be heterosexual; their twin may also be bisexual but be involved with members of the same gender, and identify themselves as homosexual. Another problem is that identical twins share the same environment (their mother's womb) for the 9 months prior to birth. Thus, if there is a environmental factor which determines sexual orientation, it might work on the fetus before birth. This series of replicated studies proves beyond any doubt that at least male homosexuality is largely determined before birth. As the American Psychological Association's statement on homosexuality in 1994-JUL asserts: "Research suggests that the homosexual orientation is in place very early in the life cycle, possibly even before birth..."
Bold emphasis mine. I'll also cite from this page on the same site.
The study on involuntary blinking was incredibly interesting:
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They found that the average PPI(formal name for involuntary blinking) was:40% for heterosexual men.
32% for gay men.
13% for heterosexual women
33% for lesbians.Startle responses is known to be an involuntary response rather than learned reaction. It controlled by the limbic system, a region of the brain that also controls sexuality. One of the researchers, Qazi Rahman, said: "The startle response is pre-conscious and cannot be learned...This is very strong evidence that sexual orientation may be 'hard-wired' in this region" of the brain. The researchers claimed that "this study offers the first independent evidence of a non-learned neurological basis for sexual orientation." Dr. Rahman said: "These findings may well affect the way we as a society deal with sexuality and the issues surrounding sexual orientation."
Of course, I doubt you'll consider this concrete proof. I suggest, then, that you consider this: the rate of success when various groups have tried to "de-gay" someone is somewhere between 0 and 0.1%. Why, if in light of the above evidence and if homosexuality is a choice, have they done such a massively shitty job of de-gaying people? If being gay was a conscious choice, like picking where to live, I'd think it'd be fairly easy to pressure gay people to choose differently. If you want all the gory details about de-gaying people, read this.
Really, though, you should read the entirety of the articles from site from which I've cited.
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On that note I have to go spend time With Cathy. I will check in to replay as I can.
Ah, so if you wind up being overwhelmed, you can simply claim that you lack the time to reply and gracefully exit. Gotcha.
Under capitalism, man exploits man. Under communism, it's just the opposite. - John Kenneth Galbraith
The trouble with the "slippery slope" argument is that it IS, in itself, a logical fallacy. The very term "slippery slope" was coined in definition of a logical fallacy. Taking one step in any direction does not increase the odds of you taking another step in that same direction, both metaphorically and literally speaking.
Not only that, but in order to even pose a slippery slope argument in the first place, you must assume that homosexuality is somehow a lesser degree of bigamy, pediphelia, or beastiality, and frankly this is not true - even the people who want to brand homosexuality as deviant behavior don't try to make such an irrational correlation.
The bottom line is that these people, equal in the eyes of the law, desire the legal rights extended to all other people. There's simply nothing else to the matter.
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JooJooFlop had this to say about Robocop:
BTW, what exactly is the legal argument against bigamy?
I think a good portion of the reason is because it would become an administrative nightmare if people started walking around with 20 wives and 20 husbands.
Multiple women marrying multiple (and sometimes overlapping) men and visa versa would be impossible to sort out in custody battles, living wills, estates, etc. Reynar fucked around with this message on 04-05-2005 at 11:53 PM.
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TheOriginalZane thought this was the Ricky Martin Fan Club Forum and wrote:
Does anyone have the article about the Gay animals? I think that would help out maybe. Well if it doesn't show up the article is about how homosexuality is even found in animals, enforcing the idea that homosexuality is not a choice.
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TheOriginalZaneing:
Does anyone have the article about the Gay animals? I think that would help out maybe. Well if it doesn't show up the article is about how homosexuality is even found in animals, enforcing the idea that homosexuality is not a choice.
Homosexuality doesn't occur naturally in animals unless you force an artificial one-gender environment.
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Peanut butter ass Shaq kez booooze lime pole over bench lick:
Enjoy.
Nice article! Ironically, it's also a good example of how the only way you can get animals to exhibit homosexuality is to forceably exclude one gender or another.
The zoo administrators wanted to indtroduce some female penguins, but gay rights activists protested until they backed down. Maradon! fucked around with this message on 04-06-2005 at 01:16 AM.
