quote:
Blindy. probably says this to all the girls:
nm
I SAW THAT EDIT MISTER
quote:
Maradon! enlisted the help of an infinite number of monkeys to write:
That's idiotic. Did you miss the part about how poorly he treated Terri through the entire process? That is not the behavior of a concerned husband.
Horsehockey.
quote:
For starters, Terri Schiavo was never on life support, and at the time she wasn't even on a feeding tube.
As far as I can tell she was on a feeding tube from day one, since she was in PVS from day one. The gradual liquifying of the brain matter was just a conseqence of being cut off from oxygen that night. And yes, a feeding tube = life support in both legal and practical terms.
quote:
In fact, nurses have testified that she was ambulatory and even able to communicably speak during this time.
The affidavit of Carla Iyers is laughable. Read what Judge Greer had to say about it, as well as the rest of the contentions made by the Schindlers in their 2003 motion.
quote:
Second, Michael Schiavo has forbidden the administration of any kind of therapy.
You mean after Michael decided to let her die? Because there was quite a bit of therapy before that, you know.
quote:
He had her moved to a terminal care hospice - a place where his lawyer George Felos was on the board of directors. A terminal care hospice is essentially a filing cabinet for the terminally ill (which Terri was not) where only comfort measures are provided. While here, he gave the staff orders not to resuscitate her if she showed signs of recovery, he forbade nurses to clean her teeth, removed family pictures, ordered her drapes shut at all times, refused to allow her to listen to music through headphones, and forbade certain visitors for months at a time, including her own parents.
Interview with Jay Wolfson, the guardian at law appointed by the state of Florida to review the Schiavo case after "Terri's Law" was passed. Here's his full report. That, at the very least, shows she was not neglected at the hospice she resided.
quote:
He also requested and recieved court permission to cremate Terri's body immediatly after her death, with no autopsy.
Show me when he did this. Not only has he recently expressed desire to see an autopsy done in order to refute claims of abuse, since he wants her cremated an autopsy is required by state law.
quote:
Michael Schiavo tells Larry King that starving to death is a "euphoria"
quote:
Ceasing Food and Fluid Can Be Painless
Concerns for Schiavos comfort have galvanized the debate. But experts say dying of starvation and dehydration is a peaceful end for the ill.
By Karen Kaplan and Rosie Mestel
Times Staff WritersMarch 23, 2005
After suffering through cancer, the middle-age woman decided her illness was too much to bear. Everything she ate, she painfully vomited back up. The prospect of surgery and a colostomy bag held no appeal.
And so, against the advice of her doctors, the patient decided to stop eating and drinking.
Over the next 40 days in 1993, Dr. Robert Sullivan of Duke University Medical Center observed her gradual decline, providing one of the most detailed clinical accounts of starvation and dehydration.
Instead of feeling pain, the patient experienced the characteristic sense of euphoria that accompanies a complete lack of food and water. She was cogent for weeks, chatting with her caregivers in the nursing home and writing letters to family and friends. As her organs finally failed, she slipped painlessly into a coma and died.
In the evolving saga of Terri Schiavo, the prospect of the 41-year-old Florida woman suffering a slow and painful death from starvation has been a galvanizing force.
But medical experts say going without food and water in the last days and weeks of life is as natural as death itself. The body is equipped with its own resources to adjust to death, they say.
In fact, eating and drinking during severe illness can be painful because of the demands it places on weakened organs.
"What my patients have told me over the last 25 years is that when they stop eating and drinking, there's nothing unpleasant about it -- in fact it can be quite blissful and euphoric," said Dr. Perry G. Fine, vice president of medical affairs at the National Hospice and Palliative Care Organization in Arlington, Va. "It's a very smooth, graceful and elegant way to go."
Schiavo, who hasn't had any food or water since Friday, has been in a persistent vegetative state for 15 years that makes it impossible for her brain to recognize pain, doctors say.
"Her reflexes with respect to thirst or hunger are as broken as her ability to think thoughts or dream dreams or do anything a normal, healthy brain does," Fine said.
But even if her brain were functioning normally and she were aware of her condition, she would be comfortable, doctors say.
"The word `starve' is so emotionally loaded," Fine said. "People equate that with the hunger pains they feel or the thirst they feel after a long, hot day of hiking. To jump from that to a person who has an end-stage illness is a gigantic leap."
Contrary to the visceral fears of humans, death by starvation is the norm in nature -- and the body is prepared for it.
"The cessation of eating and drinking is the dominant way that mammals die," said Dr. Ira Byock, director of palliative medicine at Dartmouth Hitchcock Medical Center in New Hampshire. "It is a very gentle way that nature has provided for animals to leave this life."
In a 2003 study published in the New England Journal of Medicine, 102 hospice nurses caring for terminally ill patients who refused food and drink described their patients' final days as peaceful, with less pain and suffering than those who had elected to die through physician-assisted suicide.
The average rating given by the nurses for the patients' quality of death was an 8 on a scale where 9 represented a "very good death" and 0 was a "very bad death."
Patients deprived of food and water will die of dehydration rather than starvation, unless they succumb to their underlying illness first.
Without fluids, the body loses its ability to maintain the proper balance of potassium, sodium, calcium and other electrolytes in the bloodstream and inside cells.
The kidneys react to the fluid shortage by conserving as many bodily liquids as possible.
The brain, which relies on chemical signals to function properly, begins to deteriorate. So do the heart and other muscles, causing patients to feel tired and lethargic.
"Everything in the body is geared toward trying to maintain that normal balance," Fine said. "The body will do everything it can to maintain this balance if it's working well."
Meanwhile, the body begins mining its stores of fat and muscle to get the carbohydrates and proteins it needs to make energy.
"If you mine too many proteins in the heart, it gets unstable," Sullivan said. That can give rise to an irregular heartbeat, which can cause the patient to die of cardiac arrest. Or, if the muscles in the chest wall become weak, the patient can end up with pneumonia, he said.
Patients already weakened by disease begin feeling the impact after a few days, Fine said.
They eventually descend into a coma and finally death. The entire process usually takes one to two weeks, although a patient who is otherwise healthy -- such as Schiavo -- could hold on much longer.
Throughout the process, the body strives to suppress the normal feelings of pain associated with deprivation.
That pain of hunger is only felt by those who subsist on small amounts of food and water -- victims of famine, for instance, or concentration-camp inmates. They become ravenous as their bodies crave more fuel, said Sullivan, a senior fellow at Duke's Center for the Study of Aging.
After 24 hours without any food, "the body goes into a different mode and you're not hungry anymore," he said. "Total starvation is not painful or uncomfortable at all. When we were hunting rabbits millions of years ago, we had to have a back-up mode because we didn't always get a rabbit. You can't go hunting if you're hungry."
After a few days without food, chemicals known as ketones build up in the blood. These chemicals cause a mild euphoria that serves as a natural anesthetic.
The weakening brain releases a surge of feel-good hormones called endorphins.
Doctors also have a host of treatments to ameliorate acute problems, such as sprays and swabs to moisten dry mouths and creams to moisturize flaky skin. They can also administer morphine or other powerful painkillers.
Sullivan said doctors are likely to give some to Schiavo, although, "frankly, I think they might as well give it to each other, because it will probably be more painful for them than it will be for her."
quote:
David Gibbs, the schindler's lawyer, says Terri is bleeding from the mouth and eyes after twelve days with no food or water. George Felos (scientologist, member of the Hemlock Society, and Schiavo's lawyer) says this makes her beautiful.
Huh, that's a bit different from how CNN reports it:
quote:
Felos said that he had visited Terri Schiavo for 20 minutes earlier in the day at her hospice in Pinellas Park."Frankly, when I saw her...she looked beautiful. In all the years I've seen Mrs. Schiavo, I've never seen such a look of peace and beauty upon her."
He refuted charges made by Schiavo's parents that her lips were bleeding, her skin was peeling and that she appeared in discomfort.
quote:
Luckily, there's going to be an autopsy despite the court ruling that there not be one.
What court ruling? JooJooFlop fucked around with this message on 03-31-2005 at 11:56 PM.
quote:
Maradon! Model 2000 was programmed to say:
Not sure what you're talking about, since there's never been a criminal investigation of Michael Schiavo in relation to this event.
It's not that difficult: I don't think there is a chance in hell of bringing a case against Michael Schiavo. You can come up with a thousand justifications for why you'd like to a see a criminal investigation done on him, but I think conservatives are just pissy things didn't go their way this time around. Personally, I'd love to see DeLay and his lackies try to make an even larger deal out of this. When held up to a magnifying glass, the Schindler's come out of the deal looking pretty bad and anyone associating themselves with their cause is going to be committing political suicide.
Keep up the hard work, though, Democrats will be laughing themselves into the White House in 2008.
-Tok
quote:
Nae had this to say about pies:
This thread has too many words.
It'll be okay. 
*comfort*
quote:
A sleep deprived Maradon! stammered:
Luckily, there's going to be an autopsy despite the court ruling that there not be one. Knowing all this, can anybody really oppose a full out criminal investigation?
What would you even charge the guy with? Mis-treatment? She's been in the care of either a hospital or hospice for over 15 years. Murder? Those actions were sanctioned by the courts. Extortion? There's no money to get. I honestly don't know what you'd hope to accomplish.
There's not the slightest bit of proof that he abused her, that was just Jeb pandering to the right-to-lifers.
Everything he did was well within the law. We dont need more bullshit clogging up our already burdened legal system.
Sounds to me like you're just trolling though. Reynar fucked around with this message on 04-01-2005 at 12:30 AM.
quote:
Nae had this to say about (_|_):
This thread has too many words.
Ironic when the subject is a woman whose famous last words were "AAAAAAAH WAAAAAAAH".
quote:
Snugglits Model 2000 was programmed to say:
Ironic when the subject is a woman whose famous last words were "AAAAAAAH WAAAAAAAH".
I laughed.
If it's the wish of her family to keep her alive, then so be it.
But I don't pay much attention to news, and I know very little about the case...besides the feeding tube and appeal.
But considering the rather sketchy info on whether or not this was in fact the case, it still bothers me. If the parents wanted to keep her alive, and they were going to pay with their own money, then as far as I'm concerned they should have been able to, IF the 'want to die' thing was a bunch of horse puckey. This is why living wills are a good thing.
It's all a sad mess for everybody involved, either way.
quote:
When the Schindlers appealed their case, congress stepped in and ruled that the court of appeals must review the case "de nuovo", that they review the case as if it were for the first time, as any lower court would.Now, I've seen people trying to claim that this act violates the checks and balances of government. Anyone who actually believes that is a complete idiot, the lower courts (that is to say every court except SCOTUS) exist at the whim of congress, they're created and dissolved by congress. Ruling that a court review a case de nuovo is not at all outside the power of congress.
But it's a moot point, since the appellate court illegally ignored congress's order. The only reason they have not been dissolved and held in contempt of congress is because congress has no balls at all.
The Schindlers appeal still has not been ruled on. The appellate court refused to allow the feeding tube to be re-inserted while the appeal was in process, despite the obvious fact that, without water and nourishment, Terri would die during the appeal. Essentially, they ruled without ruling.
That's a misrepresentation of what the court actually ruled.
The court did not ignore the law congress passed, the court ruled that, even under the new law, the Schindlers did not show substantial enough merit to their case to grant injunctive relief under established legal procedure for issuing injunctions which was in no way modified by the bill congress passed pertaining to Terri Schiavo, in fact congress considered a section to the bill which would have mandated they re-insert the tube during proceedings but this section was counciously removed by congress during legislative proceedings, showing that it was by intent of congress and not by mistake that no changes were made to the rules pertaining to preliminary injunctions.
It was her wish to not live as a vegetable. It was the husband's wish. She was dead already, her parents were just clinging on to the hopes of a miracle. This is the best for ALL parts involved. Zaza fucked around with this message on 04-01-2005 at 04:59 AM.
It's that Maradon relies on the "if you're innocent, you have nothing to fear" mythical aegis to tie together the whole thing. Repeatedly.
sigpic courtesy of This Guy, original modified by me
Not that random people go through my sock drawer, but you know what I mean.
quote:
Ja'Deth Issar Ka'bael had this to say about Robocop:
The frightening thing is not that the evidence can be read (if you close one eye and squint) to say what Maradon thinks it says.It's that Maradon relies on the "if you're innocent, you have nothing to fear" mythical aegis to tie together the whole thing. Repeatedly.
No, the *really* frightening thing is that he has come up with his own justifications for following his beloved neo-conservative platform, even when it directly conflicts with his own moral guidelines.
-Tok
quote:
Toktuk had this to say about Optimus Prime:
No, the *really* frightening thing is that he has come up with his own justifications for following his beloved neo-conservative platform, even when it directly conflicts with his own moral guidelines.-Tok
I keep waiting for him to say "April Fool's" but it doesn't seem to be forthcoming.
sigpic courtesy of This Guy, original modified by me
quote:
Ja'Deth Issar Ka'bael got all f'ed up on Angel Dust and wrote:
I keep waiting for him to say "April Fool's" but it doesn't seem to be forthcoming.
Yeah, same here....
