quote:
I wish Bloodsage would say this more often:
Then it's not an opinion, it's an irrational belief. Opinions change when data change.Your argument is still illogical. SUVs endanger no one by their mere presence. They do protect their occupants. Unless you can demonstrate that the SUV drivers are the ones actually causing this death and mayhem you fear, you're whining about the wrong crowd. If some idiot in a matchbox car wants to cause an accident and die underneath my 20" tires, it's frankly not my problem.
My argument is not illogical. You're just unwilling to accept the idea that driving a vehicle that is more likely to kill the people in other cars during an accident than a normal car means you're driving a dangerous vehicle. If you keep ignoring that fact, then you will never be able to understand my perspective on the argument, and frankly, I don't really care if you do or not, but you will respect my right to have it.
quote:
Azizza needs to learn to type:
Ok think I see blindy's argument here. Blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah.
You're as blind as ever.
quote:
The logic train ran off the tracks when Elvish Crack Piper said:
I know that. Im asking what sar does to drive at 5 MPG and not have it be a large percentage of money.My parents make 120k or so a year and still look for cars that get 25-40 MPG.
It's a work truck, not my daily driver. It costs a lot of money to drive it any distance, but concidering what it costs to have something large shipped via motor freight it's often cheaper to go get it in the box truck. Being a company vehicle I can claim part of the truck's operating expenses come tax time.
quote:
Blindy had this to say about pies:
My argument is not illogical. You're just unwilling to accept the idea that driving a vehicle that is more likely to kill the people in other cars during an accident than a normal car means you're driving a dangerous vehicle. If you keep ignoring that fact, then you will never be able to understand my perspective on the argument, and frankly, I don't really care if you do or not, but you will respect my right to have it.
IF IF IF AND MORE IF! And here in lies the flaw, your argument ONLY applies if Hummers are a Danger on the road, as in they are the cause of a good deal of accidents, WHICH IS NOT the case. For one since they are safer to drive (And I mean handling wise, not size wise) unless you are an idiot you aren't GOING TO LOSE CONTROL of the vehicle, hell you can't even Blow a friggin tire on them cause they have industrial run flats installed. Hummers plain and simple are NOT a danger on the road, REGARDLESS of the point that someone in a Mid-sized car COULD be hurt worse if hit by someone in a Hummer. You FIRST have to prove they are a DANGER, which you cannot.
The only remote truth you have thus far is that, if someone in a Mid-Size car is involved in an accident with a Hummer, they will be hurt worse. That ONLY applies to Mid-Size cars and Compacts, anything in the lines of a Light Truck and Higher stands a much better chance in an accident with a Hummer, and most Mid-Sized trucks, Minivans, and larger are on equal ground. Before you can use the point that they can hurt smaller car drivers more in an accident, therefore making them a menace on the roads, you FIRST have to prove they are a menace to begin with by how often they actually get into an accident to MAKE Them hurt someone in a smaller car more. Which you can't do for many reasons.
1) They are far far far in the minority. Few can even afford them, let alone are WILLING to buy one. Aside from some holywood movie stars and such, those who DO by them are not Soccer Moms.
2) The argument ONLY applies to Mid-Sized cars and Compacts.
3) More accidents are caused by hotrodders in Riced up Honda's and other hotrods than any Hummer can ever touch, and that tends to make those cars more of a menace than anything. Except, again, it's not the fault of the car, it's the driver. 
quote:
When Faelynn LeAndris says stuff like this, it proves there isn't a god:
IF IF IF AND MORE IF! And here in lies the flaw, your argument ONLY applies if Hummers are a Danger on the road, as in they are the cause of a good deal of accidents, WHICH IS NOT the case. For one since they are safer to drive (And I mean handling wise, not size wise) unless you are an idiot you aren't GOING TO LOSE CONTROL of the vehicle, hell you can't even Blow a friggin tire on them cause they have industrial run flats installed. Hummers plain and simple are NOT a danger on the road, REGARDLESS of the point that someone in a Mid-sized car COULD be hurt worse if hit by someone in a Hummer. You FIRST have to prove they are a DANGER, which you cannot.
Wrong. You can determine that something is dangerous without it actually hurting someone. And that's not to say that large suv's haven't already caused more than their fair share of deaths.
quote:
The only remote truth
quote:
you have thus far is that, if someone in a Mid-Size car is involved in an accident with a Hummer, they will be hurt worse. That ONLY applies to Mid-Size cars and Compacts, anything in the lines of a Light Truck and Higher stands a much better chance in an accident with a Hummer, and most Mid-Sized trucks, Minivans, and larger are on equal ground.
Mid sized cars and compacts make up the majority of traffic on the highways in america. If your arugment is that, in the exception to the rule, Large SUV's are not deadly, and are only deadly in the stastical majority of crashes, then you've done a wonderful job of proving your point, and I thank you for backing up my argument.
quote:
1) They are far far far in the minority. Few can even afford them, let alone are WILLING to buy one. Aside from some holywood movie stars and such, those who DO by them are not Soccer Moms.
quote:
2) The argument ONLY applies to Mid-Sized cars and Compacts.
Yes, it ONLY applies to the majority of cars on the road, including the one you drive.
quote:
3) More accidents are caused by hotrodders in Riced up Honda's and other hotrods than any Hummer can ever touch, and that tends to make those cars more of a menace than anything.
Numerically, yes, more accidents occur between two of the type of car that is in the majority on the road. That's just common sense.
quote:
Except, again, it's not the fault of the car, it's the driver.
Unless the design of the car makes it dangerous and is the actual reason why people die, where the same crash with a reasonable car would result in both parties walking away alive. Blindy fucked around with this message on 08-31-2004 at 02:28 PM.
quote:
The logic train ran off the tracks when Blindy said:
My argument is not illogical. You're just unwilling to accept the idea that driving a vehicle that is more likely to kill the people in other cars during an accident than a normal car means you're driving a dangerous vehicle. If you keep ignoring that fact, then you will never be able to understand my perspective on the argument, and frankly, I don't really care if you do or not, but you will respect my right to have it.
You're already being stupid, illogical, insulting, and arrogant; don't be impolite on top of it.
Your conclusions simply don't follow from the data, and your unwillingness to conform to simple logic (proven by the bullshit line, "My mind is made up and you can't change it!") is both childish and evidence of blind bigotry (the latter perception bolstered by your irrational attempt to mandate how others should spend their money). By your logic, brick walls, buildings, bridges, valleys, and other immovable objects or gaps in terrain are a menace to society and anyone associated with them is an evil cocksucker trying to compensate for low testosterone levels. Because, you know, hitting a brick wall or driving off a cliff in your little hot-wheels car is likely to cause death or grievous injury.
Dipshit. If you're too dense to follow all the words, then break your argument into syllogisms and experience the silliness for yourself.
--Satan, quoted by John Milton
I love HUMVEES! Not H2s, not H1s. I also really like Suburbans and a few other vehicles like that.
A year ago, my oldest brother crashed in his Suburban. He was on a country road and he rolled the truck. He ended up dying from the injuries a month later, after being in a coma the entire time.
Nobody knew what happened, there were no other cars at the scene. Forensics showed that he went off the road in a turn and rolled.
I guess my point is that any vehicle is going to be unsafe given an unsafe situation. There are no totally safe vehicles. If you crash, you have a chance of hurting yourself or others. It doesn't matter what you are driving.
I still love the utility of a Suburban. I still dream of owning a HUMVEE one day.
Yet right now I drive a Chevy Cavalier and I like it fine... it just can't do the things I would like to do.
In short, I think arguing that SUV's are a danger to others is silly, when small cars are just as dangerous, and SUV's can be dangerous to yourself. Any vehicle can be given the right conditions.
quote:
Nae had this to say about Captain Planet:
I just wanted to throw something out here.I love HUMVEES! Not H2s, not H1s. I also really like Suburbans and a few other vehicles like that.
A year ago, my oldest brother crashed in his Suburban. He was on a country road and he rolled the truck. He ended up dying from the injuries a month later, after being in a coma the entire time.
Nobody knew what happened, there were no other cars at the scene. Forensics showed that he went off the road in a turn and rolled.
I guess my point is that any vehicle is going to be unsafe given an unsafe situation. There are no totally safe vehicles. If you crash, you have a chance of hurting yourself or others. It doesn't matter what you are driving.
I still love the utility of a Suburban. I still dream of owning a HUMVEE one day.
Yet right now I drive a Chevy Cavalier and I like it fine... it just can't do the things I would like to do.
In short, I think arguing that SUV's are a danger to others is silly, when small cars are just as dangerous, and SUV's can be dangerous to yourself. Any vehicle can be given the right conditions.
According to Blindy, you only like Suburbans because your penis is too small. Individual preference isn't allowed.
--Satan, quoted by John Milton
*Hands out the cookie of goodness and some muffens*.
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Bloodsage needs to learn to type:
According to Blindy, you only like Suburbans because your penis is too small. Individual preference isn't allowed.
Actually, dipshit, according to me, it's Ok if you own a suburban because you require some of the features it has. If you had spent any time actually reading my arugment which you were so skillfully insulting me for, you'd realize that.
quote:
Nobody really understood why Blindy wrote:
Actually, dipshit, according to me, it's Ok if you own a suburban because you require some of the features it has. If you had spent any time actually reading my arugment which you were so skillfully insulting me for, you'd realize that.
Thanks for proving my point: it's only okay as a necessity (necessity being determined by Blindy, of course).
Not only do you not know what you're talking about, you don't even seem to know what you're saying. Logic can be your friend; use it.
--Satan, quoted by John Milton
quote:
I gotta give it to Bloodsage with:
Thanks for proving my point: it's only okay as a necessity (necessity being determined by Blindy, of course).Not only do you not know what you're talking about, you don't even seem to know what you're saying. Logic can be your friend; use it.
Reading can be your friend: point out where I contridicted myself. Don't worry, I won't wait up.
quote:
Blindy had this to say about Jimmy Carter:
Reading can be your friend: point out where I contridicted myself. Don't worry, I won't wait up.
You're not into that whole "logic" scene, are you?
--Satan, quoted by John Milton
quote:
We all got dumber when Bloodsage said:
You're not into that whole "logic" scene, are you?
And you chastized me for dodging things.
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Blindy got all f'ed up on Angel Dust and wrote:
And you chastized me for dodging things.
Yes, and you still are.
Perhaps you should read up on the meaning of colons. The punctuation mark.
--Satan, quoted by John Milton
quote:
Bloodsage's opinion of themself must be pretty good:
Yes, and you still are.Perhaps you should read up on the meaning of colons. The punctuation mark.
What exactly am I dodging, your completely unrelated-to-my-argument request that I somehow prove that Large SUV's are involved in more accidents than normal cars? I still haven't had it explained to me how that would be logically related to proving that in an accident Large SUV's are more deadly to people in normal cars. Which I QED'ed like 30 posts ago.
If not, then
/Nelson
HA-ha!
Your entire point is based on the idea that you have the final word about other people's needs, and can dictate what they spend their money on since they aren't allowed to like things you don't. You've already admitted that your belief is irrational, because you've stated that nothing anyone says can change your mind.
As to your alleged point about the danger of SUVs, I refer you to the brick wall/building/valley rebuttal, which definitively proves the idiocy of your non-logic. Further, you've not explained in the least why, if SUVs aren't causing the accidents, there is a problem in the first place--why does everyone else have a responsibility to ensure the safety of those in small cars who cause accidents, rather than to protect their own passengers?
Sadly, we're simply repeating the "make fun of Blindy because he's too dense to notice" phase of the conversation.
--Satan, quoted by John Milton
quote:
Azizza had this to say about the Spice Girls:
People should all have to drive cars that are roughly the same size and weight and all have the same general performance. Because anything else is dangerous and makes him uncomfortable. You are using the same argument that people use for Gun control and socialism.
Huh? "People should all fire guns that use the same caliber and have the same range, otherwise they're dangerous?" Actually, I think -all- guns are dangerous...I don't get it...
quote:
Bloodsage needs to learn to type:
By your logic, brick walls, buildings, bridges, valleys, and other immovable objects or gaps in terrain are a menace to society and anyone associated with them is an evil cocksucker trying to compensate for low testosterone levels. Because, you know, hitting a brick wall or driving off a cliff in your little hot-wheels car is likely to cause death or grievous injury.
By your logic, an icy bridge going over a valley would be no more dangerous to drive on than a completely flat road in the middle of a field, because unless something goes wrong, then you'll be fine.
My argument isn't about the frequency of accidents or the cause of them it's about the severity of what happens when they do occur. As such, bridges, valleys, brick walls, and other immovable objects or gaps in terrain do make the roads they impact more dangerous- because the level of calamity that will occur from a mistake while on them is that much bigger.
Now I can guess where you're going to go next- you're going to ask me if that means that air travel is less safe than car travel, since an accident in the air almost guarantees that you will die, while one in a car means a much smaller chance of fatality. Secretly laughing at the ignorant, retarded, arrogant blindy while you prepare a flaming retort proving that your chances of dying in a car are an order of magnitude greater than your chances of dying in a plane, or an argument that is along the lines of that... but that isnÂ’t what this is about- and IÂ’ll touch on that after this next point.
Look IÂ’m not saying that I have the right to decide who can and cannot own a large SUV. As IÂ’ve already said a hundred times, they are a part of the highway landscape, along with every other form of large car, because they have their own practical reasons for existing. What I am saying is that if a person has bought that car without a practical reason, which seems to be the kind of mentality that Hummers specifically, and all other 45+ thousand dollar sport utility vehicles in general, cater to. Yes they have the functionality, yes they have the safety, but their main attraction is, quite simply, that they are freaking impressively monstrously huge.
Ok now for what this is about. When you buy one of these vehicles, not because you need it, but because you just want it, you are, by virtue of driving a machine that is much more deadly to other cars on the road than many other vehicles that would suit your needs of being able to tow something, or go through the mud, or drive on snow, or whatever the case may be, you are endangering peoples lives, for the simple irresponsibility that comes with the statement “I want it”, in the same way that you endanger lives when you choose to speed or drink and drive, or decide to go slide around corners in the dead of winter in your beat up Junker. Not because those things are related to SUV’s in the way they raise accident rates, but because the potential for harm to other human beings is being increased as a result of your pointlessly selfish actions.
Do you need clarity here, or is that lucid enough to suit your needs? Blindy fucked around with this message on 08-31-2004 at 04:34 PM.
quote:
Cleo had this to say about dark elf butts:
Huh? "People should all fire guns that use the same caliber and have the same range, otherwise they're dangerous?" Actually, I think -all- guns are dangerous...I don't get it...
No blindy is saying that people should have to probe a need for certain features on a car/truck/SUV. This is the same argument that Gun control advocates use. You don't "need" a certain gun so you should not be able to own it.
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Blindy painfully thought these words up:
Wrong. You can determine that something is dangerous without it actually hurting someone. And that's not to say that large suv's haven't already caused more than their fair share of deaths.
Wrong! You have not proven Hummers are a Danger on the road. All you have proven is that Hummers are more deadly to the passengers in smaller cars. Which is a MOOT point. ANYTHING is more deadly to a compact car, Light trucks are more deadly to Mid-Sized car, Mid-Sized trucks, SUVs, Hummers are more deadly to Light trucks and below, Heavy-Trucks, Largers SUVs, Commercial Vehicls and RVs are more dangerous to Hummers and below. THIS POINT IS MOOT. You HAVE not proven that Hummers are more dangerous on the road, and you can't prove they are more dangerous on the road. You refuse to try and prove they are more dangerous on the road, and if you cannot prove that, you cannot use the 'More deadly/dangerous' argument towards a specific car because there is no precedent. If it doesn't come up, then the fact that they are larger and more damaging to smaller cars is irrelevant.
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I like how you can't even admit that my arguments have an honest to God proven facts behind them without belittling them.
I don't have to beleive them, nor do I have to admit you have proven any facts because you HAVEN'T. In fact most of your FACTS have been debunked, leaving ONLY The truth that Hummers can cause more damage to a smaller car. Which is an irrelevant truth to begin with, but it is still the ONLY truth you have proven.
quote:
Mid sized cars and compacts make up the majority of traffic on the highways in america. If your arugment is that, in the exception to the rule, Large SUV's are not deadly, and are only deadly in the stastical majority of crashes, then you've done a wonderful job of proving your point, and I thank you for backing up my argument.
I haven't proven your point because they are not inherantly dangerous on the road, and I have in fact pointed out that they do indeed drive safer than most cars, and any other truck out there making them even LESS prone to accidents. I have also pointed out that the high majority (as in nearly all) accidents are cause by hotrodding Compact/Mid-Size drivers. I have also shown how a Compact car, due to its size, can cause MORE damage because of it's size than a Hummer can because of ITS size.
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I'm not just talking about hummers here when we discuss statistics. I'm talking about all high riding-high bumper-and heavy vehicles. The hummer is a shining example though.
Almost your ENTIRE argument has revolved around the Hummer, and has been thouroughly blasted and proven to be complete and total BS. Yet you still cling to it. You have only started bring up other vehicles whenever any points that you have made towards the Hummer have been proven, rather harshly to be idiocy.
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Yes, it ONLY applies to the majority of cars on the road, including the one you drive.
Exactly.
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Numerically, yes, more accidents occur between two of the type of car that is in the majority on the road. That's just common sense.
Exactly. (Note again, Majority means almost all)
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Unless the design of the car makes it dangerous and is the actual reason why people die, where the same crash with a reasonable car would result in both parties walking away alive.
Wrong. It is entirely dependant on the crash, even a Compact CAN survive an encounter with a Hummer in some circumstances, and any accident that would cause a Hummer to destroy a Compact would more than likely destroy the Compact anyway unless the other vehicle was another compact. Which leads me to debunk your little arrogant snide conclusion on a 'reasonable car'. Reasonable to you. A crash between two Hummers more than likely means both parties will walk away safe, and a crash between two trucks likewise. A crash between a Hummer and a Truck, similar. Which means your assumption is that no one is reasonable or rationale, or is just plain stupid, unless they get ONLY a Compact car like you drive. Because you know... a Mid-Size car isn't going to leave much left of you after a crash if it's a crash similar to one that would have caused a Hummer to dtestroy you. Hell, I'll even give you Compact and Mid-Sized cars as being reasonable, and still any accident that would cause substancial damage in a collision with a Hummer will cause similar substantial damage if it was a Truck. So everyone is stupid or unreasonable if they don't get a car that scares you on the road.
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I like big butts and Azizza can not lie:No blindy is saying that people should have to probe a need for certain features on a car/truck/SUV. This is the same argument that Gun control advocates use. You don't "need" a certain gun so you should not be able to own it.
No, I'm not. I'm saying you're an asshole that I don't like if you buy a giant SUV and don't need it. I'm not saying that you shouldn't be able to, nor will I ever.
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Blindy's fortune cookie read:
No, I'm not. I'm saying you're an asshole that I don't like if you buy a giant SUV and don't need it. I'm not saying that you shouldn't be able to, nor will I ever.
That's SO much more grown up than bashing people for, oh say, listening to the wrong music.
And who determines whether they NEED that giant SUV? You? Setting yourself up as the grand arbiter of who needs what? Or maybe people are the best judges of their own needs and how they'll fill them.
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Check out the big brain on Callalron!
That's SO much more grown up than bashing people for, oh say, listening to the wrong music.And who determines whether they NEED that giant SUV? You? Setting yourself up as the grand arbiter of who needs what? Or maybe people are the best judges of their own needs and how they'll fill them.
My decision is that you need more beer, sir!
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I gotta give it to Callalron with:
That's SO much more grown up than bashing people for, oh say, listening to the wrong music.And who determines whether they NEED that giant SUV? You? Setting yourself up as the grand arbiter of who needs what? Or maybe people are the best judges of their own needs and how they'll fill them.
Yes. Believe it or not, I determine if I should think someone was a dumbass by spending a ton of money on a giant SUV that is dangerous to all the other cars on the road when they don't need it. I know having your own opinions on people is a foreign concept to some of you, but I didn't think it would be this hard to comprehend. Blindy fucked around with this message on 08-31-2004 at 07:36 PM.
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Get the soap! Mr. Parcelan just said:
Poor people are really bitter. No wonder they're all Liberals.
I do hope you aren't refering to me.
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Blindy's unholy Backstreet Boys obsession manifested in:
I do hope you aren't refering to me.
No, you're just a doofus.
quote:
When Mr. Parcelan says stuff like this, it proves there isn't a god:
No, you're just a doofus.
Touche
Sure, you could live your life with only the things you need. But if you never get any of the things you want, life could be lived, but it would be rather sad and dreary.
So if someone wants a Hummer, or any other vehicle for that matter (I mean, c'mon, does anyone REALLY need a Ferrari or a Rolls Royce?), and if they can afford it and if they know how to operate it safely on the road, what business is it of yours or anyone else's what they drive?
quote:
Blindy probably says this to all the girls:
Touche
I've read some of your work here and it seems to me like you're trying to create a world catastrophe because you don't like SUVs.
Factor in that I already know what sort of doofery you're capable of comes my conclusion.
quote:
Callalron must read alot of poetry:
Much like in bed, you just don't get it. You totally failed to address the bit about who decides what other people really need. And besides, there's more to life than that too.Sure, you could live your life with only the things you need. But if you never get any of the things you want, life could be lived, but it would be rather sad and dreary.
So if someone wants a Hummer, or any other vehicle for that matter (I mean, c'mon, does anyone REALLY need a Ferrari or a Rolls Royce?), and if they can afford it and if they know how to operate it safely on the road, what business is it of yours or anyone else's what they drive?
What business of yours is it to dictate what I should think about other people?
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Vorbis had this to say about Duck Tales:
My decision is that you need more beer, sir!
Beer and sugar wafers! Because sugar wafers make everything peachy (and sugary)!
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Blindy painfully thought these words up:
What business of yours is it to dictate what I should think about other people?
The same business it is of yours to decide what others need.
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Blindy got bored and wrote this:
Yes. Believe it or not, I determine if I should think someone was a dumbass by spending a ton of money on a giant SUV that is dangerous to all the other cars on the road when they don't need it. I know having your own opinions on people is a foreign concept to some of you, but I didn't think it would be this hard to comprehend.
The cars are only "dangerous to all the other cars on the road" when the driver themselves choose to be unsafe. Just because someone bought a larger sized car does not mean they suddenly lose the ability to drive safely (Though, with some drivers, I wonder how they passed the test).
Your intentions are good, but your logic is severely flawed at that key juncture.
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I gotta give it to Delphi Aegis with:
The cars are only "dangerous to all the other cars on the road" when the driver themselves choose to be unsafe. Just because someone bought a larger sized car does not mean they suddenly lose the ability to drive safely (Though, with some drivers, I wonder how they passed the test).Your intentions are good, but your logic is severely flawed at that key juncture.
So you can't call a sharp sword dangerous until someone uses it dangerously. Gotcha.
quote:
Blindy's little brother wrote this stupid shit:
So you can't call a sharp sword dangerous until someone uses it dangerously. Gotcha.
Guns don't kill people. PEOPLE kill people.
Even retards in LA use that one. I'm dissapointed in you, Blindy.
