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Katrinity had this to say about pies:
We going to get into that argument again? Tolkien can be proven to have ripped-off countless sources for his own books. Every generation takes ideas from those that came before. Its called Human Nature.
Oh, pardon me.
A bunch of frightened whelps running scared from black horsemen and a horde of savage creatures has never been done by Tolkien before. Sorry. Face it; he even steals Tolkien's longwinded descriptions.
But you are right. At least Tolkien had his characters stop and fight sometimes instead of running like pussies all the time.
Wheel of Time sucks. It's an awful series written by an awful author. Nothing you want to believe will ever change that.
And I really do find the stuff disgusting
Stranger in a strange land, Heinlein
The Cat who could walk through walls, Heinlein
Ringworld series, Niven
Brave New World, Huxley (a personal favorite)
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So quoth Mr. Parcelan:
The Wheel of Time couldn't surpass LotR, since just about everything Jordan wrote was a rip-off of Tolkien.
And as Kat said, Tolkien ripped off even older sources, like mythology.
I don't care if you hate Wheel of Time or Jordan or countless other things, Parce, that's your opinion and you're more than entitled to it. Heck, I'll even agree with you on somethings I think Jordan was sipping too much of the happy-juice when he wrote, but just because you find a thing distasteful to your own likes/tastes doesn't mean you should go around back-handedly insulting everyone who has an opinion counter to yours, ala "Wheel of Time sucks. It's an awful series written by an awful author. Nothing you want to believe will ever change that." - Implying that those who enjoy Jordan's works have awful taste, are living in a dream world, etc.
But Jordan didn't just borrow from Tolkien, he dug him up, ripped off his face, stripped down naked and danced around, wearing Tolkien's face like a mask.
Neil Gaiman is a must for modern sci-fi/fantasy stories. He's written Neverwhere, American Gods, or the compilation of short stories, Smoke and Mirrors. He also worked with Terry Pratchett on Good Omens.
The Dragonlance main series by Margaret Weis and Tracy Hickman is worthwhile. Traditional fantasy, good characters. Fairly quick reads, as well.
Roger Zelazny has done both sci-fi and fantasy; his stuff in both is worth picking up.
Glen Cook was mentioned already for the Black Company books, which are masterpieces of gritty fantasy. He's also done the entertaining but lighter-hearted Garrett files, which spoof traditional fantasy elements. Both series can be hard to find, however. MorbId fucked around with this message on 06-22-2004 at 04:24 PM.
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Mr. Parcelan had this to say about Punky Brewster:
Yeah, but Tolkien borrowed from other sources. Like she said, it's impossible to be totally original.But Jordan didn't just borrow from Tolkien, he dug him up, ripped off his face, stripped down naked and danced around, wearing Tolkien's face like a mask.
Nah, he was paying homage to the grandfather of fantasy epics. A difference from mocking him.
Take "King Beyond the Gate," that book could have easily been a duology or a trilogy and fit together fine. Instead, he tried to fit it all in one book and it got all rushed and convoluted at the end.
He's also a big fan of taking huge plot jumps.
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We were all impressed when Mr. Parcelan wrote:
I dunno, MorbId, I think Gemmel works a little loopy.Take "King Beyond the Gate," that book could have easily been a duology or a trilogy and fit together fine. Instead, he tried to fit it all in one book and it got all rushed and convoluted at the end.
He's also a big fan of taking huge plot jumps.
I'll concede that point, and because of it, King Beyond the Gate isn't one of his best books. A lot of the other books in that series (the Drenai saga) lay the groundwork for the events of KBtG, like "In the Realm of the Wolf".
But then, when he actually got there, it seems like Gemmell wasn't quite sure quite how to tie everything up and tried to force it. Most of his other series, such as the Rigante and Stones of Power, are more tightly written.
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Zair had this to say about Knight Rider:
Ripping off of mythology isn't really the same thing as ripping off of another author...
Only part was mythology. I was talking about Wagner's famous Opera he wrote back between 1848-1874, Der Ring des Nibelungen (The Ring of the Nibelung, The Ring).
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This insanity brought to you by Zair:
Ripping off of mythology isn't really the same thing as ripping off of another author...
Except, as Parce even pointed out, the only REAL comparison you can make between Tolkien and Jordan's stories was the "Down home kids, running away from dark horsemen." getting things started, and POSSIBLY the Rand not wanting to have anything to do with and it changing him thing. However, anti-heroes, and power corrupting were not, are not, and were only the very first time they were used (Which was BY FAR not Tolkien) an original concept.
There are none, to very few, parrallels between ANYTHING in the LotR and the WoT series. 
And those few that DO exist, existed for Tolkien as well, and existed even before him. And for the record, Tolkien blatantly ripped off stories and ideas from a european culture (ie thier tales and stories) in order to write the LotR, as well as adapting thier language, culture, and ideas. He also ripped of heavily from Aurthurian mythos.
Parce is making baseless arguments off of not having even READ the series past the begining where the whole running away thing takes place. In fact if I recall he never made it past the first book, so doesn't have clue about what he is talking about on this subject. Which basically leaves him just making blanket statments on a personal dislike of something (*cough*Ahem*cough*)that is highly popular, that quite a few other people find quite good, and interesting. He is infact, quite wrong on the subject, and due to the fact of not having actually dealt with the series past the begining, can't really make any kind of accusations or assumptions past him personally not liking it.
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Faelynn LeAndris had this to say about Optimus Prime:
--stuff--
I have no doubt that all you said was true. My comment was meant to stand on its own, and didn't really reflect Jordan's originality, as I haven't even read any of his books.
All I was saying is that ancient mythologies and legends are a common and fair place to draw inspiration, themes, and archetypes from, where as another authors works are not.
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Katrinity had this to say about Jimmy Carter:
Only part was mythology. I was talking about Wagner's famous Opera he wrote back between 1848-1874, Der Ring des Nibelungen (The Ring of the Nibelung, The Ring).
Interesting, I didn't know about that. I waas refering specifically to Jania's comment though, guss I should have made that clearer.
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Bloodrose enlisted the help of an infinite number of monkeys to write:
Ok. So I am normally a slow reader, and it took me the better part of a year to finally finish the Kushiel Trilogy by Jacqueline Carey, but now I am zooming through Issac Asimov's I-Robot and will soon be out of things to read... anyone have any good recommendations for good authors to check out in the
Light Sci-Fiction / Sci-Fantasy / Fantasy Genre's?
Dhampir and Thief of Lives.
I didn't make it past the first book because it was boring. All it was was running away. Even the Warder, the only one who could fight, did nothing but run away.
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Mr. Parcelan had this to say about dark elf butts:
I know you're obligated to defend him, Fae, since you've based your entire game world off of him, but it's fruitless.I didn't make it past the first book because it was boring. All it was was running away. Even the Warder, the only one who could fight, did nothing but run away.
Which is what you kinda do when you're a handful of people, most who don't know how to fight, vs several hundred trollocs and several Myrdraal. That would be like the Fellowship of the Ring (just Frodo, Sam, Merry, Pippin, Gandalf, Aragorn, Legolas and Gimli) staying in Moria and fighting every single one of the orcs, goblins, and the balrog.
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Mr. Parcelan stopped beating up furries long enough to write:
I know you're obligated to defend him, Fae.
OMG!!! Fae is a fey-blooded! lol 
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Katrinity had this to say about Optimus Prime:
Which is what you kinda do when you're a handful of people, most who don't know how to fight, vs several hundred trollocs and several Myrdraal. That would be like the Fellowship of the Ring (just Frodo, Sam, Merry, Pippin, Gandalf, Aragorn, Legolas and Gimli) staying in Moria and fighting every single one of the orcs, goblins, and the balrog.
But all the time? Even the Fellowship stayed and fight once in awhile.
Those douches ran from everything. Everything.
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We were all impressed when Mr. Parcelan wrote:
But all the time? Even the Fellowship stayed and fight once in awhile.Those douches ran from everything. Everything.
They fight a few times only when backed into a corner in FotR, but they don't try to put their cargo in danger un-necessarily, which is exactlly what Morraine is not trying to do in Eye of the World. She has very valuable people she is trying to keep out of the hands of their enemies.
Lets see, fights in FotR:
Weathertop
Outside Moria
Moria - Tomb of Dwarf King
Amon Hen
Four times they stood their ground briefly and fought, though outside Moria isn't really that much, more a elongated retreat into Moria.
Eye of the World:
Trolloc Attack of Edmond's Field
Battle through the Trolloc Legion
Shadar Logoth
Mat and Rand vs Assassins
Fighting the Whitecloaks
Battle of Tarwin's Gap
Battle vs the Forsaken at the Eye of the World
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Mr. Parcelan had this to say about Reading Rainbow:
All I's sayin', what good are heroes when they don't act heroic?
Cause they don't start out heroes. Frodo, Bilbo, Sam, etc were just normal everyday hobbits in the beginning. Rand and his friends are just youngs who have lived in a farm community all their lives. Had you actually made it to book 2, you'd see that they do start growing backbones now that they've been baptized in blood and violence so to speak. Rand learns swordplay from Lan, Perrin is discovering his potential as a Wolfbrother, etc.
That's not how it works.
The duty of the author is to make the story good enough that someone wants to finish the book, to want to see the story continued. It's NOT the duty of the reader to accept it.
Jordan fails at doing that, and as such, fails as an author.
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Mr. Parcelan had this to say about Matthew Broderick:
What I hear from all you is that "yeah, the first few books suck ass, but if you make it to..."That's not how it works.
The duty of the author is to make the story good enough that someone wants to finish the book, to want to see the story continued. It's NOT the duty of the reader to accept it.
Jordan fails at doing that, and as such, fails as an author.
Well, I haven't read past book one due to laziness, but I'd say the only part that probably matters to Senor Jordan at this point is that the money keeps coming in, which it does.
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Katrinity wrote this then went back to looking for porn:
Did I say the first book sucked? No. All I'm saying if all you're looking for is battles and conflict, you'll have to wade abit into the books before that becomes a regular thing. The first book is to set the stage for the growth of the characters.
And the growth wasn't interesting enough to keep my attention. For the most part, it was those stupid kids crying.
Fail.
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Katrinity had this to say about Punky Brewster:
Which obviously this series isn't for you. Fine. You've pretty much driven that into the ground that Jordan is not an author you would even designate to shit on. I think we're all aware now that between Wheel of Time and a painful prostate exam, you'd take the prostate exam every time.
Well, I do enjoy prostate exams.
But yeah, what comes out of my ass is preferrable to Jordan's drivel.
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Katrinity painfully thought these words up:
So now that your stance is clear on the subject, could you stop attacking him and people who do enjoy his works?
Once I destroy your Barracks, sure. Otherwise, you'll just keep pumping out fans.
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Mr. Parcelan painfully thought these words up:
I know you're obligated to defend him, Fae, since you've based your entire game world off of him, but it's fruitless.I didn't make it past the first book because it was boring. All it was was running away. Even the Warder, the only one who could fight, did nothing but run away.
Uh.. What? 
Just another example where you are arguing out of your ass again, and resorting to insults when you can't pay the check your ass cashed. There are no similarities between my game world, and the WoT world at ALL. My world was being written up and built when I was in like the 7th grade, before the first WoT book even hit the shelves, and they don't even have anything in common. Sorry, but anyone who has played games set in my world can tell you that they dont parrallel in the slightest. I've taken ideas from a lot of sources. I took ideas, as just about everyone has, even some of the most prestigious like Forgotten Realms, but my content is pretty damned original. If you wanna use the whole Madness thing that I posted a few days ago as your example, even there you would be WAY off base. Because not only was it done previous to reading the books, it doesn't work in the same way, is caused by an entirely different type of senario, and affects everyone.
Plain and simple you couldn't back up your venom by not being able to back up your facts in an argument that you started that was full of shit, so you gotta result to some snide personal jibe instead of just admitting you fucked up. It is perfectly okay to dislike the books, a lot of people do and they aren't for everyone, but spouting inane drivel that has NO basis in fact to make your point seem valid doesn't really work. You need to learn when to just backdown.
But no matter what you resort to, it won't change the fact that WoT sucks ass. It may have started at a point where it attracted people who were delusional enough to think it was something great, but now, even dedicated fans have said it sucks.
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Mr. Parcelan stopped staring at Deedlit long enough to write:
I dunno, the thing that struck me the most was the whole women ruling the world thing and the excessive use of apostrophes.But no matter what you resort to, it won't change the fact that WoT sucks ass. It may have started at a point where it attracted people who were delusional enough to think it was something great, but now, even dedicated fans have said it sucks.
Again, what? There is and has only ever been one woman in power in my world, In fact it was built/destroyed/and rebuilt by men.
And your last statement equates to basically a two year old going "Lalalalala, I can't heeeeeeeeeeear you." Because again, you are spouting baseless, blanket statement bullshit, as well as generally attacking anyone who has ever enjoyed the Wheel Of Time books. There isn't even a foothold for you to stand on, and when you start drowning, out come the personal, or blanket, personal attacks. Good show ol' bean.
But yes, I do have a foothold. I have an opinion. I have experience in writing. I have others who agree with me, including you, to an extent.
The personal insults are just because I don't like you.
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Mr. Parcelan got all f'ed up on Angel Dust and wrote:
I admit I'm at a disadvantage because, as you've said, I haven't read all the books. Nor do I feel like wasting my time by reading them if they're anything like what I read.But yes, I do have a foothold. I have an opinion. I have experience in writing. I have others who agree with me, including you, to an extent.
The personal insults are just because I don't like you.
That's not a foorhold, thats a joint opinion shared by those who have the same opinion. It is not grounds for making blanket statements and throwing insults about the series around just because you don't like it when someone else may show genuine interest, and MAY in fact enjoy the books. Or the fact that you blatantly insult anyone who likes the books.
And I agree it got out of control, I dont agree it wasn't good when it started. Because I quite enjoyed it, others loved it, and even more people were/are fanatical about it. At best you are the vocal minority. And you stem to try and wipe it away from anyone who may show an interest in it because you flat out don't like it. And don't got putting youself and your prowess up on a pedestal, you are not some literary genius, and although a lot of people like your little stories here, there are a great deal more who think they are positively retarded and stupid. Myself included, although I have liked a few, yet we don't go around bashing your works, or at least a majority don't and not to the general public.
Oh, and a last thing... Pay attention to the LotR the next time you read it. Tolkien was the one who started the abusive apostrophe usage. It is in all three versions of the elven language in his books to excessive effect, as well as a great many of his historical figures in his histories. His main characters may not have them, but to say they aren't abused in his books is kinda, well.. not true. Faelynn LeAndris fucked around with this message on 06-22-2004 at 07:02 PM.
And while I can see how you might think a story about Snoota riding Lashanna around would be a literary masterpiece, my stories are there just to make people smile. I never proclaimed them to be genius, but the people that enjoy them seem to outweigh the tasteless few who hate them and love Jordan 
And back to the topic at hand, the Death Gate Cycle by Margaret Weis and Tracy Hickman is pretty good. If you like Star Wars, the Thrawn Trilogy(Heir to the Empire, Dark Force Riseing, and The Last Command) by by Timothy Zahn are very good standing by themselves. Also Phules's Company Robert L. Asprin are not that bad, i found them to be funny, if not a bit, reptive, not so much as his myth inc books. O and This book, Dune, Yeah, thats not such a bad book, kinda big, but I found it to be engrossing,.
Also, those Phillip Pullman books, I have all three, I got them at the local Barnes and Nobles, they sell them in a paper back boxed set.
