quote:

---

Mr. Parcelan stopped staring at Deedlit long enough to write:
*lifts Led's head off his shoulder and quietly slinks away, letting her collapse to the ground*

---

*Lands on Parce's b33r stash*

quote:

---

Everyone wondered WTF when Gadani wrote:
Heaven forbid you don't want to be just "The Shoulder" for the rest of your life.

---

The shoulder, or as I call it "the doormat" is usually a tormented soul when it comes to the dating world.

What most guys fail to realize is that in today's society it is perfectly acceptable for women to abuse and manipulate men. We are mocked on TV, the games they play are even talked about openly.

What people call 'being an asshole' is really nothing more then just looking out for your best interests. Women are attracted to guys who stand up for themselves and speak their mind, but at the same time they don't like it because it takes away some of their manipulative power.

quote:

---

Led got all f'ed up on Angel Dust and wrote:
I dunno, there is a difference between a guy that sticks up for himself, and an asshole kind of asshole.

---

A guy that sticks up for himself does not become a doormat.

An asshole screws you while you're drunk.

And yet, there are some assholes that girls'll still be all over.

quote:

---

So quoth Led:
I dunno, there is a difference between a guy that sticks up for himself, and an asshole kind of asshole.

---

The trick is finding a balance between being an asshole enough to get her to like you, but to not be enough of one so that you actually get laid consistantly.

Or something.

quote:

---

Led thought this was the Ricky Martin Fan Club Forum and wrote:
I dunno, there is a difference between a guy that sticks up for himself, and an asshole kind of asshole.

---

The general asshole is a guy who's just an ass to everyone, regardless of situation.

I was talking about the situation of dating and women, those women who like to pick guy doormat's and cry on their shoulder about every little trivial issue.

Men hate that! And unless you're family, why would any guy sit through that unless he thought he was gonna get something out of it down the road? Even if he isn't aware of it right away, it's probably gone through his mind at least once or twice. "Wow, I've known this girl for 10 years...wonder what she's like in bed?"

Now some women know this, and use it to manipulate guys. Some of us choose not to be pushed around, and can quickly get labeled an asshole for doing so. Some things like not listening to a chick who wants to do the crying routine is mean, but them's the breaks sometimes.

quote:

---

Mr. Parcelan attempted to be funny by writing:
It's largely pointless and self-degrading, anyways. Usually, the girl will come to cry to you about her abusive boyfriend. You offer your compassion, your sympathy and your wisdom, and then she goes right back to him. I don't believe in encouraging that sort of destructive behavior; it's unproductive.

And if you want to continue this discussion, you might want to not try being a wiseass. I've resisted a good portion of my instincts to say some nasty stuff here.

---

You came off as a wiseass yourself, so I reacted... But with an explanation, I can see your point. To which I say there's more to being compassionate than just agreeing with everything she says, which in this case would only send her back to her boyfriend, as you say.

If someone comes to you feeling down or in tears, you can gauge what they actually want to hear by what they say, most of the time. It can be just a need to rant, or a need to hear what they already know from someone else, while some want criticism. Whatever the case, just listening is usually the greater relief, because no one bothers listening to other's feelings anymore.

If you're sensitive, this compassion may come easily. Of course, not everyone is sensitive and not everyone wants to be compassionate, so I guess it's perfectly right to not want to hear about other people's problems. But the feeling nowadays seems to be that showing any compassion is weakness, and everyone is turning individualistic.

I'm generalizing, because while this discussion seems to stem from guys listening to girls, it's not always the case. Take me, for example... I've comforted a few friends both female and male, and turned to some for compassion myself. I don't consider myself a "doormat" or the like, nor do I have a reputation of it. On the contrary, it's a rather rare happening, but so very ... pure.

When you're there for a friend at the right time... It's a positive, enlightening experience for both. You learn a bit about what makes them be, they're happier from having opened up at a hard time and knowing they can trust you. Of course, you can also hear things you didn't want to know, but that's part of the game. There's much more good from being nice and being closer to your friends, whatever you hear from them.

It's why I think compassion is a great thing.

As to what Reynar brings up... Let's not set a double standard here. Women do manipulate men, but the reverse is very much true as well. There are more than a few guys out there who play with a girl's feelings just to get laid. How is that any better than a girl manipulating a guy for favors, or for the same reason?

Just because someone reaches out to you doesn't mean you should automatically go on the defensive and flip them off. If they keep it up without helping themselves, then I guess you're in every right to flip them off. Or, at the very least, show them they're not helping themselves any. If it's unconscious, they'll be better off knowing. If they're doing this for manipulation, they'll pretty much realize their attempt is failing by this point, and move on to someone else.

Nina fucked around with this message on 04-30-2004 at 02:08 AM.

quote:

---

Nina's fortune cookie read:
When you're there for a friend at the right time... It's a positive, enlightening experience for both. You learn a bit about what makes them be, they're happier from having opened up at a hard time and knowing they can trust you. Of course, you can also hear things you didn't want to know, but that's part of the game. There's much more good from being nice and being closer to your friends, whatever you hear from them.

---

I totally agree with that, having been in that situation.

But on the other hand, I've been 'the doormat/shoulder' more times than I can remember. And have never had any luck with women. Any. I don't blame my lack of relationships solely on 'the shoulder' thing obviously, but what all these guys are saying is true.

If it's something like grades, family or whatever, certainly. But relationships are the harbingers of doom. If I want to get with you, I certainly don't want to hear about how you want to get with someone else.

I guess not actively looking or caring for relationships helps in my case. *chuckles*

quote:

---

So quoth Nina:
Point granted.

I guess not actively looking or caring for relationships helps in my case. *chuckles*

---

You know what else helps?

quote:

---

Zair had this to say about Matthew Broderick:
I was a doormat. I got to hear a hot girl tell me about how her boyfriend cheated on her. Is she going to break up with him? No, of course not.

---

that was probably the point where she might have been willing to return the favor with you.

missed oppourtunity i say

I'm speaking hypothetically, of course. Really I am.

And I liked them all as friends at first, I really did.

I would still like them as friends, except they dont get the hint that I dont need them hovering at my elbow all day.

Its creepy.

Moral? Dont be a creepy stalker dude and even if she doesnt like you in that way, you can still stay good friends.

Better than nothing, hm?

quote:

---

Azakias enlisted the help of an infinite number of monkeys to write:
Since I made it to my new command, there are about 3 or 4 guys following me around.

And I liked them all as friends at first, I really did.

I would still like them as friends, except they dont get the hint that I dont need them hovering at my elbow all day.

Its creepy.

Moral? Dont be a creepy stalker dude and even if she doesnt like you in that way, you can still stay good friends.

Better than nothing, hm?

---

*stalks*

quote:

---

When the babel fish was in place, it was apparent Azakias said:
Since I made it to my new command, there are about 3 or 4 guys following me around.

And I liked them all as friends at first, I really did.

Better than nothing, hm?

---

no worse than nothing because they have that hope maybe it will be more if you have no interested in them say hit hte curb its freinds and only freinds or nothing.

hate women who use men as a security blanket when the flavor of hte month doenst work out. (not saying you are like that but the one who are...)

god i knew a girl i had a hting for a long time but she would only go out with guys that physicaly abuse her shed cry to me and once she said no one wnats me. I said I do and the response was your jsut a freind... not anymore

there are times where i swear women are like a deli they tell you to take a number and they expect you to wait until then

I got a "Okay you know I'm totally crushing on you, right?" last week. That was cool.

quote:

---

This insanity brought to you by Azakias:
Moral? Dont be a creepy stalker dude and even if she doesnt like you in that way, you can still stay good friends.

Better than nothing, hm?

---

Sometimes, sometimes not.

quote:

---

Azakias came out of the closet to say:
Its creepy.

---

Jar them.