But on a positive note, I like how they are spending that 8.8 million on helping the kids who didn't pass that classes with extra tutoring, that shows a little incentive.
Just.
Wow.
I like japans punishment/whereyouendupforbeingstupid for not passing classes.
The government hires you to construction crews!
I think every year we spend more and more on education, and yet recent reports indicate that many city school students don't even have current books.
Maybe we need to look at what we are investing in, rather than assuming money can solve any problem. Maybe the money should buy books and be paid to more and better teachers, instead of being used to hire more principals and administrators.
Thinking about your posts
(and billing you for it) since 2001
*waits for the explanation on why this is a stupid statement*
But hatred is what makes the world go 'round 
*kicks a kitten*
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Instead, they said, the new promotion policy offers more flexibility and avoids branding students as failures when they fail just one class.
That line was entertaining to me.
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Surrounding school districts require their ninth- and 10th-graders to pass their core classes to move on.
the one problem i see with this is that the surounding districts may atempt to dump, or the parents will attempt to move their underachivers to this more permisive district resulting in a downward spiral of resources.
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Instead, they said, the new promotion policy offers more flexibility and avoids branding students as failures when they fail just one class.
I hope they aren't using that as an excuse "it will hurt the childs feelings, and he won't feel as confident to do better in class" yada yada yada bullshit.
Unless these kids are gifted athletes, I'd be willing to bet that 99% of them never get any form of higher education. What are Houston schools teaching? Proper lamaze techniques? How to hotwire a car in under 30 seconds? Without a basic education, I don't see how these kids will do anything but breed, work for minimum wage for the rest of their lives, or end up as criminals of one sort or another. Xyrra fucked around with this message on 04-09-2004 at 05:27 PM.
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Gydyon had this to say about Duck Tales:
I think every year we spend more and more on education, and the education they receive seems to be getting worse and worse.I think every year we spend more and more on education, and yet recent reports indicate that many city school students don't even have current books.
Maybe we need to look at what we are investing in, rather than assuming money can solve any problem. Maybe the money should buy books and be paid to more and better teachers, instead of being used to hire more principals and administrators.
[brag] My wife graduated from one of the top education colleges in the nation "Chadron state" when she decided to get her Masters here in florida, her teacher pulled her aside to let her know it was refreshing to have a student who was prepared to learn and didnt require remedial instruction at the masters level. She graduates this May with not only a 4.0 GPA but Valadictorian for the entire graditing class over all colleges. [/brag]
I agree with you the money is being poorly spent teachers are being turned out of diploma mill colleges with the majority of them not fit nor prepared for thier chosen vocation. Teacher salaries and benifits in comparasion to other civil servents are dismal and are insufficent to attract or keep the best persons availible for the job.
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Xyrra had this to say about Tron:
I can't even find the words to express my horror upon reading this article. They're preparing an entire generation to pump gas, be maids, and do pretty much any other low-paying, labor intensive work.Unless these kids are gifted athletes, I'd be willing to bet that 99% of them never get any form of higher education.
What are Houston schools teaching? Proper lamaze techniques? How to hotwire a car in under 30 seconds? Without a basic education, I don't see how these kids will do anything but breed and work for minimum wage for the rest of their lives.
you realize they must pass those core classes in order to graduate even in huston, they are jsut defering them until the child can catch up. even if they never do graduate perhaps by staing in school they may improve in other areas.
IN Europe they have a better Idea, you consitantly fail or show lack of desire or apttitude they shift you to a Vocational instruction so you can learn a decent trade skill, like welding or plumbing etc etc
I had 7 6-week periods as a freshman and 5 6-weeks periods as a sophmore because they forgot to count my credit of AP Math from the 8th grade. Of course I still passed english that year.... barely.
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Complete List of the Best 351 Colleges
C
California Institute of Technology
California Polytechnic State University-San Luis Obispo
Calvin College
Carleton College
Carnegie Mellon University
Case Western Reserve University
Catawba College
Centenary College of Louisiana
Centre College
Claremont McKenna College
Clark University
Clarkson University
Clemson University
Coe College
Colby College
Colgate University
College of Charleston
College of the Atlantic
College of the Holy Cross
College of the Ozarks
College of William and Mary
Colorado College
Colorado School of Mines
Columbia University, Columbia College
Connecticut College
Cooper Union
Cornell College
Cornell University
Creighton University
CUNY - Brooklyn College
CUNY - Hunter College
CUNY - Queens College
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Gydyon had this to say about dark elf butts:
Maybe we need to look at what we are investing in, rather than assuming money can solve any problem. Maybe the money should buy books and be paid to more and better teachers, instead of being used to hire more principals and administrators.
Gydyon is wise.
blah..
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Trent had this to say about the Spice Girls:
The C's from this site... http://www.princetonreview.com/college/research/rankings/rankingsBest351.asp
sigh, on asking my wife she says that what she was told by her instructors back then, perhaps its jsut a regional thing or maybe its only the education program.
I'm embarassed. I accpeted what she told me without question becuse what do I know about mid west colleges anyway. what I do know is the colleges in Florida in education are substandard.
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Somthor had this to say about pies:
what I do know is the colleges in Florida in education are substandard.
Florida A&M, Florida State, and University of Florida are all listed on the Princeton 351 rankings, so I wouldn't generalize and say that they're all 'substandard'. Xyrra fucked around with this message on 04-09-2004 at 06:20 PM.
to graduate you needed:
30 total credits, or more, composed of at least:
5 english
3 math
3(4?) science
1 art
1 social science
1 gym
1 tech or home ec or this or that..... lots of options
a couple other requirements.
Each 40 minute 2 semester class was worth 1 credit, as was each 80 minute 1 semester class. Typical workload would be 8 credits per year.
If you failed a class, no real biggy, you would just have to either forget about it, or retake it later (If it was a requirement to graduate, or if it was a prereq for a course you wanted to take).
That way you could tailor your own education to where you wanted to go. Lots of options, and still a good core education.
I graduated in 4 years with 36 credits, but I know a few who graduated in 5 with over 50. (most people will stay in hs for 5 years when I was there, since there were 5 years.) Burger fucked around with this message on 04-09-2004 at 08:19 PM.
No, Really. Bite me.
You have all these classes. They can be taken at level A, B or C with A being hardest (nearly university level, you can only have three of these, and most even only take two) and C being just above 9th grade level (HS over here is 11th, 12th and 13th grade, with 10th being an optional class).
You must have X level C classes, Y level B classes and Z level A classes. C classes are one year, B is a continuation of a C class and A is a continuation of a B class. If you fail a C class, you can continue to B level and shape up. It'll be tougher, but most people realize what's going on once they fail a class. Math, Danish and History are required for everyone, but apart from that you can pick whatever you want.
Of course, this whole system depends on the fact that your average (We use a 00-03-5-6-7-8-9-10-11-13 scale) is alpha and omega over here. A 5, or God forbid a 03 or 00, is going to drag your average into the dirt, and then you're pretty fucked.
I don't know why it works so well really, but I know like two people who dropped out and only one who didn't graduate, and it does actually require effort to graduate.
Oh, and we don't have credits or anything. Education is based on modules of 90 minutes each, four modules a day with 15 minutes between each module. I'd estimate we have about an hour of homework a day, but noone ever does anything but written assignments. Jens fucked around with this message on 04-09-2004 at 10:27 PM.
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Gydyon had this to say about pies:
I think every year we spend more and more on education, and the education they receive seems to be getting worse and worse.I think every year we spend more and more on education, and yet recent reports indicate that many city school students don't even have current books.
Maybe we need to look at what we are investing in, rather than assuming money can solve any problem. Maybe the money should buy books and be paid to more and better teachers, instead of being used to hire more principals and administrators.
My stepmother the principal would hug you, Gyd. It frustrates her to no end that EVEN WHEN a bill gets passed to give education more money (and doesn't get tapped for pork bellies on the way), it disappears into "incentives" and raises for administration and bureaucracy.
See, she isn't a "tenured" principal. She's one of the Wake County Schools (in North Carolina) "hatchet man" principals. When a school reaches a certain low standard, they oust the trouble principal and move in one of the hatchet men. Over the next year or two, that principal cuts out the dead wood, juggles finances to get things up to speed, slots in promising new teachers, then preps the school for a permanent principal while she (my stepmother) moves on to the next problem school.
She's seen problem principals who get a doctorate (usually in administration rather than education) and start demanding a higher pay rate, whether or not they've really earned it. So due to tenure-type contracts with the principals, the school systems (at least in NC) are usually forced to pay higher rates. Some of the worst schools in the state have some of the highest-paid principals. And it infuriates Fara (my stepmother) to no end. Because when you have one squatter at the pinch point of the money flow, money doesn't get spent on new equipment, new books, new teachers.
So you end up with "certificate teachers" (teachers who get a teaching certification without any actual college degrees) because they'll accept lower pay and fewer benefits because they're not really into things for the long haul.
So there needs to be an overhaul in general. Teachers need higher qualifications (a required bachelor's degree or higher in the field they want to teach, or in teaching itself would be lovely), and in return should be paid better (teachers in NC are some of the lowest paid teachers in the nation, which is weird because some of the best colleges for future teachers are in the state). Principals should be required to have a higher degree of training, and a higher base rate of pay than teachers, but not as high as it is in some places, and only get bonuses if students perform well.
The Board of Education in most places needs to be severely downsized. Police departments in some places have less staff (officers and clerks) than some boards of education (just the board of education itself; not school-based employees like teachers, counselors, and principals). That seems...off...to me. And it's usually glamour; everyone has their own secretary, everyone goes out to lunch on the taxpayers' dime, etc. And it would be fewer pockets for federal spending dollars to mysteriously disappear down.
At the same time, removing the requirement on passing core curriculum classes doesn't actually solve anything. It's solving the problem of low grades not by fixing the problem, but by not grading; wrong end of the equation, in other words. And the problem doesn't end there. Sooner or later, they will have to learn the material; all it's doing is pushing towards the later grades, when students are expected to learn even more. Building is a steady upward slope, not a flat road. You have to build on what came before, and if you don't hold people accountable for having learned something the previous year, then what's the point of a year/grade system in general (IE if you're not expected to know everything a 5th grader is supposed to know for when you start 6th grade, what's the point in having a 6th grade at all? or a 5th grade, for that matter?)
sigpic courtesy of This Guy, original modified by me
I view it from a purely selfish perspective, since I never plan to have kids: The more retards public schools pump into the workforce, the better my skills look in comparison.
If I cared, though, I would do the same thing to education that I would do to healthcare: Full commercialization. The two situations are nearly identical.
Currently, private schools trump the everloving fuck out of public schools. They do so because they are actually competing with public schools for students and need to be superior to them as a matter of self interest. Public schools, being free and regionalized, have no competition, and no real reason to improve themselves from an administratorial perspective.
Commercialize the entire education system, and every school is a private school. Schools will, for once, have actual competition, and the same processes that drive commercial technology (ie. the same processes that brought us the modern computer in a scant two decades) AND our higher education system (which is one of the best in the world) will drive our general education system as well: Schools will be pressured by their competition to be superior to one another. Incompetent schools will fail and their students will be assimilated by better schools. Schools with unreasonable tuition will lose attendance until they make them competative.
Yes, this does mean that everyone who attends school will have to pay for it. Oh no, how will poor dad ever manage to send junior to school. Except, since the government isn't funding a broken education system, dad sees a lot more of his paycheck, and his paycheck is a lot bigger as well, even though he's doing the same work, since his employer (whose tax bracket pays 98% of the government's income to begin with) is seeing a lot more of their profits.
Ah the miracles of libertarian capitolism! Maradon! fucked around with this message on 04-10-2004 at 12:42 AM.
Failure is a part of life, and kids need to know this. Once they get out in society people will expect them to produce something, or they wont last long.
There's no points for 'good intentions' or 'giving it a good try' like some schools are preaching. The real world is quite competitive and cruel if you aren't ready for it.
I honestly can't imagine trying to be on the job market right now without a college degree at the very least. Especially with the flood of people who are pouring into certain industries. Without a degree anymore you are at a huge disadvantage.
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Maradon! was naked while typing this:
I honestly don't care about the state of education.I view it from a purely selfish perspective, since I never plan to have kids: The more retards public schools pump into the workforce, the better my skills look in comparison.
If I cared, though, I would do the same thing to education that I would do to healthcare: Full commercialization. The two situations are nearly identical.
Currently, private schools trump the everloving fuck out of public schools. They do so because they are actually competing with public schools for students and need to be superior to them as a matter of self interest. Public schools, being free and regionalized, have no competition, and no real reason to improve themselves from an administratorial perspective.
Commercialize the entire education system, and every school is a private school. Schools will, for once, have actual competition, and the same processes that drive commercial technology (ie. the same processes that brought us the modern computer in a scant two decades) AND our higher education system (which is one of the best in the world) will drive our general education system as well: Schools will be pressured by their competition to be superior to one another. Incompetent schools will fail and their students will be assimilated by better schools. Schools with unreasonable tuition will lose attendance until they make them competative.
Yes, this does mean that everyone who attends school will have to pay for it. Oh no, how will poor dad ever manage to send junior to school. Except, since the government isn't funding a broken education system, dad sees a lot more of his paycheck, and his paycheck is a lot bigger as well, even though he's doing the same work, since his employer (whose tax bracket pays 98% of the government's income to begin with) is seeing a lot more of their profits.
Ah the miracles of libertarian capitolism!
Ahh, yes, a small number of well educated, healthy individuals ruling with an iron fist over the enormous majority of uneducated, sickly wasted potential. How enlightened. In anycase, I agree with Jens and Gyd. Pvednes fucked around with this message on 04-10-2004 at 02:12 AM.
Children from the lower class with potential can find ways to pay for their college education already - loans and scholarships, they just have to try harder to do it. I don't think that privatizing other school systems would be any different than the college system today.
Competition between the schools would lower the cost of an education, and increase efficiency of money spent. There's a lot of money wasted in the public schools.
I think it's stupid to try to force children to try to learn everything, and I think that there would be many fewer dropouts if education was tailored more to the children, and I think vocational schools earlier on would be a good idea.
The 'if the government stops providing it then only the rich will have it' argument is asinine. The government gets the money to fund the schools from us, so if we pay that much less taxes and have a system that is more cost effective, then the overall cost to each of us won't change very much.
Not only that, but parents would be able to choose where they want to send their children, rather than forcing them to send their children to an institution that only teaches what the government wants them to teach.
I'm tired, so sorry if I've rambled or made any dumb errors...
-Kinanik
forigv eme if im maekign sn-0o sense, im asleep right now
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Pvednesing:
Ahh, yes, a small number of well educated, healthy individuals ruling with an iron fist over the enormous majority of uneducated, sickly wasted potential. How enlightened.
Actually that's the way it is currently. The small number of wealthy, healthy individuals get the top notch private schools while the rest of the commoners need to attend the shamefully inadequate public schools, and the divide will only get worse as you further subsidize education.
With a fully commercialized school system, the divide decreases because schools who can provide a top notch education at an affordable price will be the schools that thrive. It's economic darwinism. Maradon! fucked around with this message on 04-10-2004 at 06:17 AM.
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Over the mountain, in between the ups and downs, I ran into Mog who doth quote:
I see maras idea working to some extent, but more wiht a modifed voucher system, as in, gov still taxes for schools, but sintead of runnign the schools itslef, as is, each school gets X a year per student to run, instead give the parent and student the chance to apply to wherever they think they cna get in, and said school get hte X, isntead of jsut the closest horibly run public school
That defeats the entire purpose of commercialization, schools would still have no reason to compete with one another for students.
If anything, students are a burden in our current system.
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Kinaniking:
I think it's stupid to try to force children to try to learn everything, and I think that there would be many fewer dropouts if education was tailored more to the children, and I think vocational schools earlier on would be a good idea.
eeehhhhh....no, I can't agree with you there at all.
A well rounded education is critical, not only to higher education but to development as a human being.
Sure, you may never use calculus, but calculus is an art form, and the frame of mind that is required for calculus may very well be applicable throughout your entire life.
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When the babel fish was in place, it was apparent Maradon! said:
Actually that's the way it is currently. The small number of wealthy, healthy individuals get the top notch private schools while the rest of the commoners need to attend the shamefully inadequate public schools, and the divide will only get worse as you further subsidize education.With a fully commercialized school system, the divide decreases because schools who can provide a top notch education at an affordable price will be the schools that thrive. It's economic darwinism.
I agree actually, a two-tiered system has to go. The problem with commercialization is however; According to your census bureau, basic education (just basic education) costs approximately US$7284 per student per year on average, and for special education needs this gets a bit over doubled. The census also says, "The 2002 median household money income in the United States was $42,409." Now if peeps be payin' the full fees, in conjunction with the full fees for everything else, even with just one or two children per family, that's going to give you a literacy rate that looks like the wrong side of the tracks in Africa in a generation or two. You do not want illiterates bagging your groceries. Life's too short for that. [Edit: Here's a link to the census, for your convenience.] Pvednes fucked around with this message on 04-10-2004 at 07:15 AM.
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Maradon! stopped staring at Deedlit long enough to write:
eeehhhhh....no, I can't agree with you there at all.A well rounded education is critical, not only to higher education but to development as a human being.
Sure, you may never use calculus, but calculus is an art form, and the frame of mind that is required for calculus may very well be applicable throughout your entire life.
Additionally, this is a statement of truth if ever I saw one.
The school system as things stand is extremely flawed. It needs more money going to educate the students instead of make sure the principal and board have a new car.
It's not that you're exactly wrong, Pved, but at this point in America it'd take a nigh miracle to fix the system to the extent needed.
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Batty had this to say about Tron:
Well, I can see Maradon's views of it needing to be commercialized as one solution to the problem. Another is to get the corruption out of the system and get money spent how it's meant to be. However, that'll never happen. I could care less what anyone else says, the government and most of it's offshoots is corrupt these days.It's not that you're exactly wrong, Pved, but at this point in America it'd take a nigh miracle to fix the system to the extent needed.
You'd need a whole administration of PM Whitlams, and in America Whitlam would have been shot. The thing is, laissez faire has been done before, and it's been nigh-on dystopic. You can read what it'd be like to live in one in Dickens. A mixed economy is simply the most powerful tool to get the highest standard of living; the advantages of capitalism with planned coverage of its drawbacks. That's why it's so popular. Pvednes fucked around with this message on 04-10-2004 at 09:51 AM.
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Trent had this to say about (_|_):
The C's from this site... http://www.princetonreview.com/college/research/rankings/rankingsBest351.asp
He said best colleges for Education, not just best colleges in general. Meaning the educational program, not education in general.
Lyinar Ka`Bael, Piney Fresh Druidess - Luclin
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Pvednesing:
I agree actually, a two-tiered system has to go.The problem with commercialization is however; According to your census bureau, basic education (just basic education) costs approximately US$7284 per student per year on average, and for special education needs this gets a bit over doubled. The census also says, "The 2002 median household money income in the United States was $42,409."
Like batty said, those are figures from the bloated, corrupt, subsidized education system we're using now. Those huge numbers are one of the things that would be fixed by privatization - there would be a drive for efficiency where there never was one before.
Also, just because the entire education system would be commercialized doesn't mean there wouldn't be government funded grants for exceptional students and things of that nature.
