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Alaan said this about your mom:
PvP:
Right now, and I think forever there will be open PvP. That mage over there give you a dirty look? Go beat the shit out of 'em! That fighter steal your kill that you were casting on well before he attacked? Fling a DD spell at him! The downside to killing is that you get "karma." When you have karma your name goes red and anyone can kill you without gaining karma themselves. Sadly this isn't a deterent, and in and of itself it can be abused. A few times some much higher level person will wander into the newbie areas and randomly kill people. So what if they are red? No one there can kill thim. My speed increase has allowed me to survive all such encounters, but fighters aren't so well off.It also can be abuseable. Say there is a group of PKs out and about with no red members. They they send a lower level person out to start smacking someone around. That person defends themselves, kills the attacker and is now red. They defended themselves and got punished. Now the rest of the group comes over, pounds you without any downside and takes whatever item you drop. You heard me. You drop items when you die. AND you lose XP. Everyone but the griefers are up in arms about the sytem right now. On top of this the only "real" reason to PvP is to take keeps that don't have any purpose other than to start more PvP.
Fuck that shit. People are assholes, they don't need easier ways to be such.
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Ja'Deth Issar Ka'bael wrote this then went back to looking for porn:
Paying to earn all your stuff then lose it all is akin to masochism. You can't convince me that it isn't.
And paying to earn all of your stuff and then lose it because an asshole decided to kill you because there are no real reprecussions of death or risk to deter him, isnt?
At least with it in there, the only real people to suffer are the griefers. Because the smart, non-asshole player, wouldn't have to deal with it as much.
You play DnD too, when your charcter dies in DnD, you have to start from scratch there too. But that works too. (Granted it's free, but you get the point of When was the last time you really feared, or felt risk, in an MMORPG to make it exciting) [ 03-28-2004: Message edited by: Faelynn LeAndris ]
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And I was all like 'Oh yeah?' and Willias was all like:
The lag in this game isn't too bad client side atm. But the servers are getting raped. How bad? Mobs aren't attacking back when you attack them.
What server you on? Sieghardt actually is running surprisingly well. Even in the shops with 10825230458 people.
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Xyrra obviously shouldn't have said:
In my opinion, L2 is nothing beyond eye candy, which is a shame. I'll continue playing through beta, however... I don't think I'll pay for the game.
What server are you on?
You guys are going to LOVE World of Warcraft.
I mean REALLLLLY love it.
*Hopes the Open Beta is fairly soon.
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Mod probably says this to all the girls:
What server are you on?
Uh... the only one that was on the list? Bartz? Whatver. I haven't logged in in about a week, soo...
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Xyrra got all f'ed up on Angel Dust and wrote:
Uh... the only one that was on the list?Bartz? Whatver. I haven't logged in in about a week, soo...
Ah. Up to three servers in open beta with a fourth coming online next week.
"Don't want to sound like a fanboy, but I am with you. I'll buy it for sure, it's just a matter of for how long I will be playing it..."
- Silvast, Battle.net forums
Lag was so bad, took half an hour to finally get to character create/select screen, then.. the mobs were so lagged they weren't fighting back.
It was just sad.
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Trent had this to say about John Romero:
Three servers for Open Beta.. bad bad bad. Sure they say they will add another, doubt it will help much, if they even do that.Lag was so bad, took half an hour to finally get to character create/select screen, then.. the mobs were so lagged they weren't fighting back.
It was just sad.
heard about that on the L2 boards. Some level 3s were apparently taking down things that were red to the 9 mage I had on closed beta.
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And I was all like 'Oh yeah?' and Faelynn LeAndris was all like:
You play DnD too, when your charcter dies in DnD, you have to start from scratch there too. But that works too. (Granted it's free, but you get the point of When was the last time you really feared, or felt risk, in an MMORPG to make it exciting)
1. I don't set out to kill my PC's. I set up scenarios they should be able to get out of, even if they have to sweat a little (or a lot) to do so.
2. You're completely ignoring the "Big Beard In The Sky" factor. There's no hands-on GMing in MMOMPG's. There's no one ensuring things are balanced. If someone picks a fight in a D&D game, luring someone into a trap, IE do something evil, then they face the consequences of their actions. If they do it in something like Lineage 2, they've found a dandy exploit in the faction system.
3. There's a social contract between players and the GM. The GM won't grind them to meat paste, metagame, exploit, and cheat the players out of their characters' accomplishments, and the players won't give the GM more hell than he or she can handle. That means that while there may be a kleptomaniacal kender in the party, the GM will ensure that his presence is not catastrophically disruptive to the dynamic of the game and of the group.
That's why no massive multiplayer MMOMPG has ever, and will NEVER, encompass the enjoyment a person can get out of a good game of D&D with their friends. There's no assurances; just the hard logistical data of a coded game, and the exploits people find in the system and then pry open into unfair advantage.
And while that may be realistic, I signed up to play a fantasy game or a sci fi game, not to play SimGangWar. What you seem to forget is that this sort of shit has happened before in Ultima Online. PKers starting giving everyone grief in the early days because they decided that the way to go would be to let "player justice" rule. Step outside the safe confines of a city and all hell breaks loose. Like your stuff? Too bad. Remember all that work you did getting your belongings? Well that PKer appreciates it. If you're lucky, maybe he'll sell you back your worldly belongings.
Then you get the PKKers, and the PKKKers and the PKKKKers and so on and so forth.
And if you add in permadeath, then not only are you losing your character's worldly belongings, you're losing all that time you spent getting a character experience. Why don't I just stand with my legs widely apart so you can kick me repeatedly in the balls? It would suck just as bad, and it would take a lot less time. Why am I paying for this again?
For some people, paying to get kicked in the nuggets may be a good time. Most people, however, don't swing that way.
sigpic courtesy of This Guy, original modified by me
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Ja'Deth Issar Ka'bael had this to say about Duck Tales:
And if you add in permadeath, then not only are you losing your character's worldly belongings, you're losing all that time you spent getting a character experience. Why don't I just stand with my legs widely apart so you can kick me repeatedly in the balls? It would suck just as bad, and it would take a lot less time. Why am I paying for this again?For some people, paying to get kicked in the nuggets may be a good time. Most people, however, don't swing that way.
Being able to use exploits is the game devs and GMs jobs to fix, and there should be leniancy against players who have suffered at the hands of one of these.
As far as your argument here, it is more stupid for the griefing PKer to abuse the permadeath (Especially if there are Game Laws and Justice in play that they can suffer from as well) to waste time going after average joe. Because for them, thier enjoyment comes from what the name implies, causing grief. Which they cannot effectively due if THEY are the ones on the reciving end of the penalties. No more lording power over another, because they are more likely to get caught up in the downsides to the system than average joe is. ESPECIALLY if a Bounty/Lawman system for other players is in play where they have a certain degree of immunity allowing them to hunt down murderers. You can only be at the top of the food chain for so long before someone comes knocking, and you find yourself once again a bottom feeder with all your power, time, effort, and ability to cause grief to others reduced to newbie fodder. And you WILL be remmembered, and your reputation WILL continue to haunt you. So you are already off to a bad start.
Without serious reprecussions and penalties for death, and crimes (MMOPRGs are too lenient on penalties), PvP will never work beyond being a haven for griefers or some absurd mini-game senario. And without some serious risk, mystery, and PvP, long term games have a tendancy to grow stale. There is only so long before the same old senery and mobs become humdrum, and its just old news.
Lineage 2's system sucks, as has been established, THAT system is Ultima and worse reincarnate.
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Alaan spewed forth this undeniable truth:
What server you on? Sieghardt actually is running surprisingly well. Even in the shops with 10825230458 people.
Bartz, not TOO many peeps in elfie land. Elven Mage kicks all kinds of ass. Insta-kill spell to win!
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Willias Model 2000 was programmed to say:
Bartz, not TOO many peeps in elfie land. Elven Mage kicks all kinds of ass. Insta-kill spell to win!
All mages start out like that. About level 5 you have to start kiting them if you don't like getting gnawed on and recasting your spell 3 times.
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Alaan obviously shouldn't have said:
Note the chat box and my tell(in purple)
You so sent that tell after my comment. [ 03-28-2004: Message edited by: Batty ]
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Batty had this to say about John Romero:
You so sent that tell after my comment.
Indeed. I couldn't remember who said it though.
Also: If you value your sanity don't bother getting on right now. The hordes of people are nuts. KSers everywhere. Barely anything worth killing. I have also discovered the agro system is pretty shitty. If I cast one nuke I have a creature beating the shit out of me despite what the fighter I was working with could do. There is almost no chance of an equal level tank prying agro from a mob a caster it seems.
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Moding:
Losing is never fun. I got killed and looted at least 25 times in M59 (I sucked at that game) but without the PvP aspect it would have been dull as hell.
Which explains why the EQ Zek servers were such a huge hit. Oh, wait, they weren't, they were a massive failure that only idiots and griefers actually bothered to play on.
The potential for getting ganked doesn't in any way add anything but frustration to a game. It doesn't even add challenge. Might as well cut the shit and just add a worldwide, random, instant DT. The effect would be the same.
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A sleep deprived Maradon! stammered:
Which explains why the EQ Zek servers were such a huge hit. Oh, wait, they weren't, they were a massive failure that only idiots and griefers actually bothered to play on.The potential for getting ganked doesn't in any way add anything but frustration to a game. It doesn't even add challenge. Might as well cut the shit and just add a worldwide, random, instant DT. The effect would be the same.
The EQ Zek servers failed because EQ was in no shape or form made for PvP, also iirc there's still quite a few players playing there.
The potential to kill other players adds quite a bit to player relations. It cuts down on all the camp stealing / training / cockblocking / whatever indirect PvP in EQ style games, instead of trying to find ways to hurt people you hate through five dozen loopholes you kill them, or they kill you, simple.
Also farming newbies is neither fun nor profitable for more than 30 minutes, it may be enjoyable at first for the 'ha ha ha I can mow you guys like wet spaghetti'-moment but after a while you go find something challenging to do.
Not to mention that there's never a real lack of people who want to be the popular shining saviors of the newbie world and kill / run off the PK eventially even if he's persistant. People have gotten to high levels in early UO and M59 even with hordes of PKs out there, yes it's harder than just fighting the AI level 1-65 but also more fun. In EQ you can pretty much snore through 6 hours of xp grind with most classes, if there's the threat of some guy coming around the corner to kill you and steal your equipment it keeps the situation exciting.
You people are overreacting, PKs have to spend a significant part of their gametime getting back xp they lost in PvP, unless you piss someone off to a massive extent no one is going to camp you down to lvl 1 every time you ding.
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Alaan had this to say about Knight Rider:
Indeed. I couldn't remember who said it though.Also: If you value your sanity don't bother getting on right now. The hordes of people are nuts. KSers everywhere. Barely anything worth killing. I have also discovered the agro system is pretty shitty. If I cast one nuke I have a creature beating the shit out of me despite what the fighter I was working with could do. There is almost no chance of an equal level tank prying agro from a mob a caster it seems.
Taunt abilities come at lvl 20 with the knight / scout split afaik, don't get carried away about class balance at lvl 15 you can just level out of it.
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Alaan had this to say about Robocop:
Indeed. I couldn't remember who said it though.Also: If you value your sanity don't bother getting on right now. The hordes of people are nuts. KSers everywhere. Barely anything worth killing. I have also discovered the agro system is pretty shitty. If I cast one nuke I have a creature beating the shit out of me despite what the fighter I was working with could do. There is almost no chance of an equal level tank prying agro from a mob a caster it seems.
So just have the fighter pound it in the back while you fling more spells or run away. You DO run faster than most mobs after all.
Level 7 Elven Mage named Willias on Bartz. Someone playing on that server send me a message or something.
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Willias said this about your mom:
So just have the fighter pound it in the back while you fling more spells or run away. You DO run faster than most mobs after all.Level 7 Elven Mage named Willias on Bartz. Someone playing on that server send me a message or something.
The fighter can't keep up with the mob while I'm fleeing though. Too slow!
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Alaan stumbled drunkenly to the keyboard and typed:
The fighter can't keep up with the mob while I'm fleeing though. Too slow!
Elf fighters run faster than elf mages. 
This is especially true with dark elves, dark elf fighters move like freaking ninjas.
"Don't want to sound like a fanboy, but I am with you. I'll buy it for sure, it's just a matter of for how long I will be playing it..."
- Silvast, Battle.net forums
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Fazum'Zen Fastfist impressed everyone with:
Okolnir, level 8 orc fighter on sieghardt
FOR THE HORDE!
A nice flash that captures L2 perfectly I think.
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From the book of Gadani, chapter 3, verse 16:
I never had any problems logging in.
In open beta? If so you are blessed by some variety of deity.
