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There was much rejoicing when Karnaj said this:
Do you know the difference between the two? I mean, is the license the same for both, or do you specifically have to apply for a civil union?

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Well, there really is no "civil union" yet. Maybe in some states. But I am thinking through to the next step.

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Bush softened his announcement by leaving the door open for states to legalize civil unions, which gay rights groups say is an insufficient alternative to marriage. "The amendment should fully protect marriage while leaving the state legislatures free to make their own choices in defining legal arrangements other than marriage," said Bush

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Seems like it would come to a battle over terminology. If the ammendment passed, the religious/conservatives get to say "Huzzah! Our sacred marriage is protected!" The Homosexuals/liberal crowd get to have civil unions that give them the same rights under the law. What's the real difference other than the wording?

Whole thing seems like smoke and mirrors to me.

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Check out the big brain on Suddar!
p.s. I know that isn't exactly what Gydyon was saying but that's because I added my own opinion on at the end )

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Nice save.

But you did say part of what I wanted to say, which is why I said you said it.

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Smilodon Fatalis had this to say about the Spice Girls:
From the article Karnaj linked:

Seems like it would come to a battle over terminology. If the ammendment passed, the religious/conservatives get to say "Huzzah! Our sacred marriage is protected!" The Homosexuals/liberal crowd get to have civil unions that give them the same rights under the law. What's the real difference other than the wording?

Whole thing seems like smoke and mirrors to me.

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Putting an amendment aside, the difference is that marriage would remain a mostly religious institution, and would retain its traditional definition. A civil union would give anyone the tax break and other benefits, while not having to be sanctioned by a denomination that is opposed to homosexual marriage.

But if it results in an argument over terminology, then this whole thing is really about politics and not morality then, isn't it.

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Karnaj said this:
And so it begins.

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[B5] There is a hole.. in your mind. [/B5]

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From the book of Gydyon, chapter 3, verse 16:
Putting an amendment aside, the difference is that marriage would remain a mostly religious institution, and would retain its traditional definition. A civil union would give anyone the tax break and other benefits, while not having to be sanctioned by a denomination that is opposed to homosexual marriage.

But if it results in an argument over terminology, then this whole thing is really about politics and not morality then, isn't it.

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That's what I honestly think, Gyd. For most moderate and reasonable people, i think the civil union/marriage deal would work. But you will have zealots on both sides. On the right, those who will scream civil union/marriage whatever you call it for homosexuals is wrong. It shouldn't be allowed! On the other side, you will have some gay groups who won't be happy until it's called marriage, and some guy can march down the aisle of a cathedral, in full wedding gown, and be married by the bishop.

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Smilodon Fatalis had this to say about Punky Brewster:
That's what I honestly think, Gyd. For most moderate and reasonable people, i think the civil union/marriage deal would work. But you will have zealots on both sides. On the right, those who will scream civil union/marriage whatever you call it for homosexuals is wrong. It shouldn't be allowed! On the other side, you will have some gay groups who won't be happy until it's called marriage, and some guy can march down the aisle of a cathedral, in full wedding gown, and be married by the bishop.

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Of course, forcing a religious institution to recognize a gay marriage would require a constitutional amendment withdrawing the Free Excercise and Establishment clauses of the First Amendment.....and the cycle continues....

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Mortious said this about your mom:
[B5] There is a hole.. in your mind. [/B5]

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Giants in the playgound...

Nothing here is exactly what it appears to be...

Now get the hell out of our galaxy!

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Everyone wondered WTF when Gydyon wrote:
Of course, forcing a religious institution to recognize a gay marriage would require a constitutional amendment withdrawing the Free Excercise and Establishment clauses of the First Amendment.....and the cycle continues....

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Politics within politics. I think the more likely scenario would be the internal politics of the demonination. Like what is happening with the Anglicans over the gay Bishop. the conservative/liberal sides of the demoination fighting for control of their church hierarchy.

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Callalron spewed forth this undeniable truth:
About 162 by the latest count.

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you are inncorrect, I challenge you to find where I mentioned having even 1/4 of that number.

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Zair had this to say about Robocop:
How many jobs have you had?

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I didnt have that one

closest I ever got to an actualy Law enforcement type job, other than the military was Animal Control, which really wasnt the same thing.. but it sure was interesting

but can they ban common law ones?

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Verily, Karnaj doth proclaim:
Do you know the difference between the two? I mean, is the license the same for both, or do you specifically have to apply for a civil union?

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The License was the legal document affirming the union, I thought. In any case Civil Unions grant a homosexual couple all the legal rights and bindings of a married couple.

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Verily, Somthor doth proclaim:
you are inncorrect, I challenge you to find where I mentioned having even 1/4 of that number.

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That "wooshing" noise you hear is the sound of sarcasm flying far, far over your head.

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Callalron's account was hax0red to write:
That "wooshing" noise you hear is the sound of sarcasm flying far, far over your head.

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[insert generic snicker here]

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Gydyon said this about your mom:
Putting an amendment aside, the difference is that marriage would remain a mostly religious institution, and would retain its traditional definition. A civil union would give anyone the tax break and other benefits, while not having to be sanctioned by a denomination that is opposed to homosexual marriage.

But if it results in an argument over terminology, then this whole thing is really about politics and not morality then, isn't it.

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The problem with this is, despite Bush's claims otherwise, not all religions are anti-homosexuality. As I've previously stated in another thread on the subject of gay marriage, Kemetic Orthodoxy hasn't a single thing against homosexuality...so why shouldn't I be able to get a Kemetic wedding, if it's a religious issue?

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Zephyer Kyuukaze's account was hax0red to write:
The problem with this is, despite Bush's claims otherwise, not all religions are anti-homosexuality. As I've previously stated in another thread on the subject of gay marriage, Kemetic Orthodoxy hasn't a single thing against homosexuality...so why shouldn't I be able to get a Kemetic wedding, if it's a religious issue?

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Actually, that's exactly my point with civil unions. You could have a perfectly legal civil union that gets you a tax break and benefits plus a Kemtic Orthodox (what is that by the way) marriage and be fine both ways.

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Smilodon Fatalis Model 2000 was programmed to say:
Gyd, out of curiousity. What is your opinion about the Mayor of San Francisco issuing out marriage licences, even though he is in clear violation of California law?

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I think he's in clear violation of California law. If you oppose the law, file a suit challenging its constitutionality.

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Gydyon said this about your mom:
Actually, that's exactly my point with civil unions. You could have a perfectly legal civil union that gets you a tax break and benefits plus a Kemtic Orthodox (what is that by the way) marriage and be fine both ways.

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Now see, that'd be just fine by me.

Kemetic Orthodoxy is a modern revival of the ancient Egyptian religion.

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Gydyon impressed everyone with:
Actually, that's exactly my point with civil unions. You could have a perfectly legal civil union that gets you a tax break and benefits plus a Kemtic Orthodox (what is that by the way) marriage and be fine both ways.

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This makes me think though...

Supposing Bush's anti-homosexual-marriage amendment passes, somehow (say, Republicans ride into Democrat states at dawn and flay them all with machettes, just like it used to be). What exactly would it be doing? Along the same lines as the Kemetic thing, you can't stop a Christian church that does not discriminate against homosexuals from giving them a ceremony to go along with their civil union, aye?

So it looks like this is just being done to draw support. And since it's not likely to draw anyone, just push people away...

I hate Bush so much for doing stupid stuff like this. I mean, the way he talked about the war on Iraq (I dont really oppose that in and of itself, although the way it was handled is detestable) sometimes made it sound like a holy war and crap...and he kept on saying "We are one nation, united under one God..."

man, I've got news for you Bush.

anyway...I've gone off on a tangent.