I can provide a more clarified psychological/personality breakdown as it becomes valid.

[ 04-22-2002: Message edited by: Malbi ]

Just a quick question about Chuckles (mainly curiosity), what's his main weakness?

Range is a big one. He's, classwise, a tank with built in weaponry (his teeth and muscle). That's great if you can turn combat engagements into melee, but if he gets stuck in a fight with a bunch of archers (or anyone who can lay down "suppressive" fire) he's effectively pinned down.

Chuckles likewise has absolutely no knack for magic. He can't work it out in his head (and I reeeeeeeeeeally don't think someone sitting down and trying to teach the concepts is a good idea) and doesn't really have any inclination to in any case. Upside is he doesn't cast spells. Downside is that Chuckles is somewhat vulnerable (like most tanks are). Force-based attacks are as good against him as any warrior (fireballs and such) but manipulative magics (like Azy's music) are like the Jedi mind trick.

Think of Chuck as force applied to direction when he's enraged. Just like a barbarian. Finding a way to take him out head on is tricky. Would be tricky with any tank. But use the back door; divert him like you'd divert a river. That's what Azy did. Chuckles is seething with anger? Use magic to aim it somewhere else.

As for weapons, Chuck will pick up sticks or whatever's handy if he needs it (like he won't fight a flesh-dissolving critter bare-handed) but he doesn't use bows, arrows, doesn't like using swords, spears, etc. Very primitive when it comes to weapons. Someone like Taavi relies on being clever and modifying his equipment to suit the task; Chuckles uses brute force to alter the task to fit the tools he has.

Treat him like a 3e Barbarian/Ranger and you've got a pretty good grasp on things. He's just got Intimidation skill down to an art form, and some degrees of Increased Run.

That answer the question?

I shall not use this information in the SL unless it is presented to Taavi in-character.

Was just curious

quote:

---

Siliddar had this to say about Optimus Prime:
So, this world is...a furry world with basic fantasy races in it? or vice versa...

---

The setting is Andros, a predominantly human city, though there are a smattering of your basic Dungeons and Dragon's type races. The Anthral's (furries) main capital of Gheyr is of a size closely comparable to Andros, but doesn't recieve the same type of commerce and trade as the other (given to its more out of the way like location).

As you'll note from first the story I posted and then from the OOC (as small as it is) on my first post in the SL, after the war, many of the Gheyrs stayed behind to help rebuild the devestated capital. So yeah, there would be a good number more Anthrals in Andros than 'usual.'

[ 04-23-2002: Message edited by: Azymyth ]

But there is a time and a place to stop. Chuckles, when riled, is a berserker. I have given out of character assistance to avoid him lashing out and hurting "party members" (in the form of suggesting to Azy how he could defuse things in the library), I have run Chuckles away from the rest of the gang, making it a point to let people know how much crap he's leaving between himself and them. They get to the supply yards and I account for the intelligence of the people who are still pursuing Chuckles, and point out, "Hey this isn't a place you want to have a showdown with Chuck, he's clearly got the upper hand in quite a few respects." And people continue to hunt him. They shoot stuff at him. Chuckles never responds with fear. And every...time...he does something...I make it a point in my post to give people a way out. Continue pissing him off, I warn, and things are going to go someplace that 1. I don't want to take them and 2. There's no good reason why they have to go there.

And I'm nearing the end of my rope here. Taavi is going out of his way to piss Chuck off, and there's only so far that I can bend Chuckles. I've given warnings, I've given insights into his mind, I've all but said "Hey stop winding him up". I've posted here in the OOC thread about his mindset. I have a character who is completely playable in the group so long as group members don't go out of their way to tick him off.

And unfortunately there is no way to avoid everything he can do. I've not avoided much of what's been tossed at Chuck, I've dealt with it. I've dealt with everything that this tank character throws at folks being dodged, avoided, or ignored. And Chuckles continues to be a target. And it has to stop.

I consulted Azy. I consulted Lyinar. I explained this to them. And I'm saying now, to you Dan...Please Stop Pissing Chuckles Off. It won't end well, I promise. I was trying to go, with the post just before mine, with Chuckles reining in his temper and going for a little intimidation instead. Ha ha ha everyone laughs it off and that's the end of it. But no more. Chuckles is now injured, Taavi BETTER be injured because if you can conveniently deny everything I do, then I can play that game right back at you, and we can call it a draw this time. It's time to drop the issue. And not to piss anyone off, but I'm tired of levvying warnings and getting squat in return.

Weren't you the one that had Chuckles pick Taavi off the ground and slam him all over the place?

So what, I'm supposed to have Taavi laugh and just fling the papers at Calena and we can all have a merry dance and sing? I think not.

If you didn't want Taavi to respond in a natural self-defense action, you shouldn't have injured/intimidated/threatened him. I do recall typing and posting "feel free to land on Taavi", I do not recall posting "feel free to do whatever the hell you want to my character".

If you wish to have complete control over one of my characters in a scene, it wouldn't hurt to do some more of this "Consulting." In other words, maybe you ought to ask me via OOC or PM, if it's okay to go ahead and throw Taavi around like he's a bag of potatoes.

Taavi's response was the only logical action left for him, with what seems like Chuckles about to kill him, Taavi is left with the only option of self-defense.

NOTE: I did leave you with an option for Chuckles injury. I presented a scale, for which on one end you can have no injury, just pain, and on the other end you have serious injury.

Next?

My point is perhaps doubled in strength now. So you've ripped a chunk out of Taavi's shoulder, and thrown him somewhere else in this lumber yard? Well well, that's just exactly what I told you to do in the PM I sent, yep...good work.

Hey, wait a minute...I never sent you a private message! And for that matter, I never gave you permission at all!

If you have a problem with how the storyline is going, you voice your concerns to EVERYONE, FIRST. If you didn't like the fact that Taavi, Azymyth and Malbi were following your character, then ask that we remove that after the first chase posts!

Now to another point I wanted to ask In-Character but now that Taavi's bleeding to death I wont get the chance. How exactly did Calena just magically show up at the lumber-yard? I must have missed that post in the SL...

More like throwing to the lions...

And to clear up yet another misunderstanding, Taavi took the papers because of his naturally curious nature, and because as far as he could tell, Chuckles stole them from the library, in which case (as far as he's concerned) they don't belong to Calena.

Take a moment to look at Deth's various OOCs. Look at the beserker description he gives Chuckles. Do you know what a beserker is? It's someone that fights TO THE DEATH unless their oponent yields. Notice how despite the fact it's been described that Azy carries a weapon, but has he drawn it against Chuckles at all yet? Nope, because he knows no matter what spells he throws out, whatever chants he has, Chuckles has the advantage of sheer brute force and will win in a fight like the one Taavi's in. Not telling you how to play your character, just giving some perspective.

Taavi's curious about the papers? So is Azymyth, but he's willing to wait because he obviously sees Calena has some degree of control over Chuckles and therefore would be able to give him the answers he wanted.

But Taavi's your character; you play him your way. Just remember the consequences. Even great generals of know when to yeild.

Also, Taavi has never 'drawn a weapon' against Chuckles. So far, he's defended himself against an attack from Chuckles using the only means available to him.

If you want this resolved, I will edit/delete my posts back to the point before Taavi takes the papers. ON THE CONDITION, that Ja'Deth promises to NEVER write such uncalled for actions with my characters EVER AGAIN. In other words, I'm really pissed about that complete lack of regard for my character, and complete control taken by 'Deth...but in order to keep things moving again I am willing to cut back to the post before mine about Taavi taking the papers.

I despise auto'ing, just in case you couldn't guess. And I have NEVER given you that kind of permission with my character, Ja'Deth. You may be used to it, but this is an interactive storyline, therefore you ASK before going ahead with plans that would require the use of my characters.

And you did acquiesce that the papers were Calena's in a previous post. Or that Taavi considered they were. So why not give them over to her when he sees what they are?

In case you need it, this is the post

"He quickly glanced down at the papers, mostly meaningless to him they appeared to be stuff for Calena's inventions...notes for various mechanical devices and stuff like that.

[ 04-26-2002: Message edited by: Lyinar ]

Take note to read my entire post, in which Taavi "doesn't quite know what to say".

And yes, what I did was technically auto'ing, however I did not take control of Chuckles, or Calena in this case. I took control of an inanimate object, which is entirely different.

I didn't run a sword through Chuckles, or lop his arm off and snatch the papers from his severed hand.

[ 04-26-2002: Message edited by: Daniel Gow ]

quote:

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Do you know what a beserker is? It's someone that fights TO THE DEATH unless their oponent yields.

---

So yes, Chuckles is going to keep going at Taavi and progressively getting more violent until his opponent is dead or has yielded. Watch Record of Lodoss War and watch how Orsin acts when enraged. It's about the same.

What you intend to do now is up to you, Dan.

And no, I don't watch Anime but yes, thank you I get the picture. And no, I don't believe Taavi has shown any more hostility then what Chuckles has shown him. If not less then Chuckles actions.

[ 04-26-2002: Message edited by: Daniel Gow ]

1. I think in D&D terms. I know this isn't a D&D game, but it's the easiest way for me to figure things out in my head. In D&D terms, Chuckles is a Barbarian/Ranger by class. Largely Barbarian, with Ranger elements. Chuck favors his natural gifts and hand to hand dirty combat. We've been over that. Think of him as being sort of like a Gnoll, if you must, but he doesn't look a lot like one. Anyways, advantages that Chuck has include size, strength, reach, intimidation, agility and raw speed when necessary. He likes to improvise if he uses any weapons; he doesn't generally like to wear armor, preferring the stealth/stalk options that a ranger has. So there's Chuck in a nutshell.

Taavi, as I perceive of him, might as well be a rogue/wizard. He's got stealth, surprise, makes a decent tank, no doubt has a lot of useful tricks up his sleeve, but he also might as well have a few levels in Wizard to account for some of his spell-like effects, which he writes off as goodies garnered from Calena. Now if this were GURPS, I'd say Taavi bought the advantage "Gadgeteer Ally". He gets the unspoken advantage of having someone who makes goodies for him. That's cool, but it's an advantage. Taavi has the same problem, however, that Rogues everywhere have with perceptive folk; if they can see you, and are bigger than you, you've got a problem. I could give you all sorts of hints as to what I perceive as Taavi's strengths in light of what Chuck is/has, but I'll wait til I hear what Dan has to say.

2. Descriptive language. You say Chuck gets stabbed with a crystal and it ignites him. I say Chuck chomps down on Taavi's shoulder and heaves him. It COULD be bad. We both, however, and I think it got under-stated, left each other some room. Taavi got bit. If he was butt nekkid, it would've probably hurt like a real biotch and could've been serious, but he has armor. Damage might look bad, but it's "Cinematic" damage. I use a lot of descriptive language, but in D&D terms a d8 of damage is a d8 of damage, so to speak. You described Chuck getting a part of him flash-fried, I describe it as looking real bad, but him still being able to function. Neither attack, in other words, was a crippling blow. They probably look bad and hurt like hell, and Taavi probably got the worse end of it proportionally (8 points to someone with 50 HP is going to look worse than 8 points to someone with 75 HP, to put it in perspective), but that's okay. That's the difference in classes. Taavi can pull doodads out to flash fry someone. Chuck doesn't. *shrugs*

But there should be certain generic understandings. In general melee, Chuck will take more of a pounding and do more damage than Taavi (he's bigger and stronger, especially when infuriated), and he has certain knacks that are useful (senses, tracking, etc), but in specific cases Taavi has the advantage (Taavi uses a bow, for one thing, for another Taavi can do a severe amount of damage with a well-planned backstab, plus Taavi has all those tasty rogue skills at his disposal, likely at higher levels than Chuck. Taavi can likely pick locks and find traps. Chuck's more likely to kick down a door or sneak in, then throw someone else into the range of the trap.) Least that's how I see it. Taavi trades tankitude for specialization and style.

3. Role-playing. This is a rather...tough...situation. Chuck isn't a cheerful guy. He's the nutjob in the group who only works with the others for one reason at first. Get him past that, however, and he'll develop ties to other folks.

I think part of the problem with acceptance is that Azy and Lyinar have seen Chuck in a different place/world. Or a slightly different variant of him. Chuck used to beat on/torment Azy's character Caelin in that alternate setting, but after a while Chuck got bored and things worked themselves out. Dan's never had that, and I'm sorry for the fact I acted with the ego that you had.

Chuck likes to think he's the Alpha male. Very macho, very irritating to some folks. And he's got a vast overabundance of personality, which is weird because Chuck's basically a jerk. But he's also a nutjob. Chuck's likely to defend Taavi, if it ever comes to that, on the grounds that "If anyone's going to kill rogue-boy, it's going to be me" even if Chuck doesn't get around to actually doing anything to Taavi. So Chuck can work within a group.

But there are a lot of hair triggers to his berserker personality (duh). Yes he's a big hyena man. No he is not a dog and doesn't like being treated like one any more than an elf would like to be treated as a fairy tale faerie. He doesn't like being chased, hunted, shot at, etc. He reacts badly to it. And 90% of the time he's likely to go off unless there's a better reason not to.

My solution? Identify that for everyone. There's a lot of "off camera" time that we skip when we change scenes or whatever. People (unless they're incredibly dense, in which case they're likely either short-lived or have gnomish luck) would pick up on certain things.

And if there are similar elements to Taavi I don't gather from RP, toss them at me. I mix my hints in with my description of how things go. No biggy.

4. "Auto" RPing. I'm all for the idea of not assuming what someone else does and acting on it. Lyinar and I talk so much that the rules are bent there. I talk to Azy frequently. But for those folks I don't have at hand to talk to, I use a certain logic. If I can grab you, I can move you. I don't slap funky holds on you automatically. If I can grab you, I can move you. I give directions, I give lots of indication about how close quarters I want to be to something beforehand so everyone can visualize the same thing. Taavi is an elf (not big) in the grasp of a reeeeeeally big guy. Plus Taavi's a rogue and not another musclebound tank. So he can be moved around. On the other hand, Taavi is also nimble and clever. He can use things like Pick Pockets to palm nasty little crystals that go off like mini-thermite charges.

I don't think anyone wants to do a play-by-play, round-by-round, check-everything-out sort of run through. Least I hope not. Slows things down. Logic is okay, don't presume to know the final effect. Chuck can grab Taavi? okay he can plant him somewhere. Taavi's got leather armor that absorbs impact, plus he's a rogue meaning he's used to bracing himself to avoid shock. Accomplishment this round? Chuckles has grappled Taavi. Taavi can squirm out some how, he can kick Chuck in the nuggets (no armor means no cup), or he can do something very cool like jam a point-incendiary device into a nerve cluster (which is probably something I would've done in the same situation, which is why I can't think of any reason it doesn't go through).

So two people obviously as good at mental fight choreography as the two of us, Dan, should be able to find some middle ground. Taavi's the clever reactionary; he's a rogue, he's not stupid. Leave the lummox-like bashing to a basher and keep doing the cool little style moves. It works out in the end. If Taavi had picked the scene of the fight and made it a place he's in favor in, he probably would've found all sorts of ways for Chuck to get knocked around before the main event. Might even happen. Doesn't have to be hard feelings.

And I am sorry this may have come off as us ganging up on you. I just wanted the message clear and decisive. I think in the future we should ALL feel free that if a situation (especially between player characters) is getting too tense, we should all feel free to tap out here in OOC and say "Hey this isn't working for me, how can we change things around?" and get hints. We all try to be such good RPers (and are) that it gets messy.

Anyways. My thoughts, my comments, I look forward to replies, and I posted to the SL. Let's get this thing moving and put this event in the past. I'm sure Azy wants to get the ball rolling again.

I don't like your views on Auto'ing much, in fact I like them very little. I still would prefer a little more room in combat situations...if they take a little more time then so be it. In non-combat, I really don't have a big problem with Auto'ing, as long as it's not harmful (being shoved to the ground by accident, or a door opening in my characters face...that's cool and adds to the fun.).

Now, I don't think in a D&D sense, I'll say it now and for the record: I have never had anything to do with traditional (or variatons there of) D&D...so I don't have a frigging clue when you say a "3e Barbarian/Ranger." Thanks to your description I get the barbarian/ranger bit, which I can grasp, but I have little to zero knowledge of the D&D process.

I basically think in EQ terms, with a good imaginiation...given that I have a good imagination and have read quite a lot of fantasy/sci-fi literature. So, I guess I don't see/think of these things in any set of rules, basically I see them in as "real" a situation as possible, based on my imagination.

Now, I haven't read your new post, so no doubt this is a bit premature...BUT...I'd prefer a cut-back in the scenes, or a wide fast-forward. I don't fancy the current situation (pre-your latest post 'Deth) with the battle between Taavi and Chuckles, it's just getting out of hand.

So...that's that.

*The gathered watch intently as Calena reaches out and throws a lever. There is a whirling of a fly wheel, and all at once all the metallic blades at once drop, slicing the bread into evenly-spaced bits*

<Calena> I give you....SLICED BREAD!

*runs from Lyinar before she hurts me*

Our lives are forever changed and for the better now!

[ 05-01-2002: Message edited by: Azymyth ]

*whips up a sandwich*

COOL!!

/cheer

git along, lil dogey

was really bad

I'm going to start shooting Azymyth in a different joint every day until we get the game rolling again.

TWANG!

"Well, there goes his right shoulder!"

So he does no mistreat the Lyinar

Stop killing the bard