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Lyinar Ka`Bael obviously shouldn't have said:
Here's something to consider. The owner of the restaurant/bar/pool hall, etc, is on their own property. The government wants to make this rule about what they can do on their own property. So even the owner etc couldn't light up on their own property. Good idea? Bad idea? What does it say for the liberties the government may try to take in the future?
It may be their property, but they are running a business that requires other people to visit their establishment. It is not the same as if it were their home - it is a business.
There are already many things that govern what can and cannot be done at a business. Should all of these be negated because it's the owner's property?
Think about wages. Do you think that an owner of a business should be able to hire employees for only $1.00/hour with no tips? It's what he's doing on his property, right? Nevermind the fact that nobody would work for such a wage, but if EVERY business owner could do it, then it may be a real possiblity.
What about a business that serves food to others? Should the owner be allowed to keep his establishment in unsanitary conditions for preparing and serving food? It IS his proprty afterall, right?
I don't see any difference with this law. It's there to protect the health of the people visiting such establishments.
You may think you have a right to do whatever you want to yourself. But think of it like this.
A smoker does not HAVE to smoke in such a place. It is something they CHOOSE to do. Being smoked around it NOT something a non-smoker chooses to do. It is something that's forced upon them.
And don't tell me, "well, they can go elsewhere." Why should they? Just because you CAN'T smoke at a place, doesn't mean you have to go elsewhere, either. You can always choose NOT to smoke while you are there. I can't always choose not to inhale your smoke.
I believe that a place that wants its doors open to smokers shouldn't compromise for the minority of asthmatics that can just as easily go somehwere else.
I believe that a place that wants its doors open to pyromaniacs shouldn't compromise for the minority of living people that can just as easily go somewhere else.
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Dr. Pvednes, PhD thought this was the Ricky Martin Fan Club Forum and wrote:
I rephrase. Private Property it is okay, Public Property it is not.
This bill wants to make it law on both public and private property. Basically, anyplace that is open to the public, be it a government-owned establishment or not.
Lyinar Ka`Bael, Piney Fresh Druidess - Luclin
Yeah we have it here. I approve of it.
[ 05-09-2003: Message edited by: Dr. Pvednes, PhD ]
If I was a person who couldnt stand smoke-free air, why should I have to limit myself on where I can go or not, just because it's their right to decide to allow non-smoking.
It can work either ways, if its their desicion to allow smoking in their establishment, you dont have to go in there, if you need to go in there then theres nothing you can do, shouldnt have to have the government take away their right to make that choice.
It is a health and public safety issue, and that makes it something the government is supposed to deal with. You can't leave it up to the businesses in question to allways be reasonable about it, I've been in places where the required seperation of smoking and non-smoking is a total joke. So, stronger measures are required.
Do you know what second hand smoke even is? it's the UNFILTERED SHIT we breathe in. Not the smoke their blowin out of their mouths. Smokers develop all sorts of problems with the tar and nicotine being filtered as it is. How the hell can you say second hand smoke doesnt cause problems?
Oh, and on that note? When my step father lights up, guess who's eyes water, sinuses overflow, breaking into allergic sneezing fits and losing his breath? I'll give you a hint.. it's not him.
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Fox thought about the meaning of life:
why should I have to limit myself on where I can go or not, just because it's their right to decide to allow non-smoking.
Except that you don't HAVE to limit yourself to smoking-allowed establishments. You CAN go into a non-smoking establishment.
Those who cannot be around smoke for whatever reason HAVE to limit themselves, you don't. It's not the same for you as it is for them.
And the whole loss of business thing is valid on a case-by-case basis only. If anything, business SHOULD rise, due to the fact that a larger number of people can now visit such establishments.
The smokers stop coming to the pool hall? Well the non-smokers who wanted to go before, but couldn't, are taking their place.
Most if not all of my friends are very considerate about not wanting to smoke around me.. and Ill admit the allergy is only to certain types of cigarettes..
As for the 'private property' vs 'public property'.. that point can be moot if you take the stance.. the club/bar/pool hall owner shouldnt have to follow laws on his/her own land. If that were the case.. why bother carding kids.. I mean.. its their own property.. they can do as they want, no? 
Just an example about how there are laws set in place for a reason. Although some of them are really asinine.. they were put in place for a reason. Yep.. NYC's boroughs have started passing laws throughout their townships in terms of nosmoking in public places. I tell ya.. I felt pretty good when I went with a friend to a nightclub in Long Island. The back of the building had a nice patio for all the smokers to go to but the indoors area was nice and smoke free. No allergy attacks whatsoever.
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How.... Azizza.... uughhhhhh:
Second hand smoke doies not give you health problems I think they proved the smoke would have top be literally blown down your throat for it to have any impact. And the ammount needed was far more than a person would normally get. evnen in a bar or pool hall..
Every time I think that working Tech Support has shown me just how stupid humans can be, someone else comes by to lower that standard.
I've worked at several call centers. I've hung around smokers. Out in the open, where there's plenty of fresh air mixed with the smoke. I did it maybe once a week or so.
Guess what my doctor thinks is the cause of my Asthma?
Now, let's think here. If once a week I can go outside, hang around with people who smoke (Who are NOT blowing it 'down my throat') in the most well-ventilated area imaginable, and it's enough to cause ME some health problems, how could a pool hall, which would have MUCH less ventilation, be better?
Oh, duh! Of course! Magic! How silly of me.
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Check out the big brain on Synjari!
I felt pretty good when I went with a friend to a nightclub in Long Island. The back of the building had a nice patio for all the smokers to go to but the indoors area was nice and smoke free.No allergy attacks whatsoever.
I'm glad LI made someone feel good. 
Most folks who live here wish they lived elsewhere.
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Trillee enlisted the help of an infinite number of monkeys to write:
grew up with both parents and little brother smoking... betchya my lungs are black as pitch
I doubt this will happen.. Think about it... how much revenue the government makes from cig sales... banning it from public places... naa ain't gunna happen
It went through in California.
If you want to smoke here you have to go outside the building and 15 feet from the entrance.
Full sigpic image.
Liam - "Caitlin: You terrify me, but in a good way."
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Check out the big brain on Lyinar Ka`Bael!
That was actually one concern brought up in the news report, Meridian. The station visited a pool hall here that has been non-smoking for a while, and they report that they don't have a loss of revenue.
That could easily be attributed to people who want to avoid smoke going there.
I like to smoke when I drink. If I couldn't smoke in a bar, I wouldn't go to that bar. I'd drink and smoke at home with friends. Probibly save me a lot of money too.
Forgive the crude analogy, but saying no one can smoke in public places because some people are allergic to it is the same as saying let's kill all the bees in the world because some people are alergic to them. People who are alergic to bees have learned to avoid them. People who are alergic to smoke can patron a non-smoking establishment. Keep your laws off my body. [ 05-10-2003: Message edited by: Sergeant Blindy ]
