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Author
Topic: Do you beleive in magic?
Meridian
Pancake
posted 03-08-2002 04:02:08 PM
One person's magic is another person's science - and vice versa.

Personally I think "magic" is just something that science hasn't gotten around to explaining.

**************************
Meridian Ascendant
Lacking a witty sig-phrase since 2001.
OtakuPenguin
Peels like a tangerine, but is juicy like an orange.
posted 03-08-2002 04:03:18 PM
I used to think there wasn't any magic, like in performances and stuff...but jeesh...after watching David Blaine..I was pretty close to conviced. I can usually figure out what someone is doing, but holy crap! I couldn't catch this guy at all!
..:: This Is The Sound Of Settling ::..
Razor
posted 03-08-2002 04:06:58 PM
Magic: maybe
Ki: yes, I feel it around me and I fell how it moves

there is underlying force to the universe I can't explain it to well but I feel it and which way and there is partial control, everyone can use it, it's just most of them forget it in their childhood

Astronomy is a passion...
Engineering is a love...
My job isn't a job, it's my career, and I love every minute of it: Observatory Superintendent
Il Buono
You see, in this world there's two kinds of people, my friend.
posted 03-08-2002 04:08:24 PM
To sum this all up in terms I hope to god most of you can understand:

There are alot of Mulders in this world, and there are an equal, or more, amount of Scullys.

"Those with loaded guns, and those who dig. You dig."
Toktuk
Pooh Ogre
Keeper of the Shoulders of Peachis Perching
posted 03-08-2002 04:10:19 PM
quote:
The Last Strider stumbled drunkenly to the keyboard and typed:
1. E=mc^2 does not govern EVERY SINGLE DAMN THING in the Universe.

Actually, it does. It has yet to be disproven. Matter can not be created or destroyed is another law. Show me where this has been proven to not be true. Any moron can say "Well, I heard a Monk on the top of a mountain somewhere made a person with HIS BRAIN!", but that doesn't make it true. It just makes you a flaming moron.

quote:
2. So, seeing the EXACT SAME EVENT, down to the last minute detail like a shirt I don't own, later buy, and wear isn't a preminition? Gee.

I think you are exagerating here.

quote:
3. No, I mean my Dad can actually UNDERSTAND the cat. He can tell the cat to do something and it will. A CAT. The most independent animal on the face of the Earth.

See my reply to #2.

quote:
Science is not the only explanation for stuff. Dan Rationalists. *goes back to reading Thoreau*

Yes it is. See Bloodsage's comments regarding those who feel otherwise being ignorant.

-Tok

[ 03-08-2002: Message edited by: Toktuk ]

Suddar Williams
SUDAR WILAMS
posted 03-08-2002 04:14:49 PM
Oh, I wasn't arguing for or against, 'Sage. If anything I agree more with your assessment--if it's explainable, it's science. I don't really believe in magic, but that's not to say I don't believe in the unexplained.
The Last Strider
I will die alone
posted 03-08-2002 04:14:55 PM
*rolls his eyes* So, does E=mc^2 govern the Human soul? Thought process? Non-science crap?
And, No, I was not exaggerating on the other two things. I am totally serious. I can understand them not being believed, but they are true.
"We have listened to you speak since the dawn of time, and we have learned to imatoot you exarktly."-The Simpsons

Necromancer: How DARE you imply that I was involved in a rude act with my undead servant! I will flay the flesh from your bones! I will summon a thousand maggot-ridden corpses to gnaw your flesh! I will trap your soul in-
Ghoul: My ass hurts.

Toktuk
Pooh Ogre
Keeper of the Shoulders of Peachis Perching
posted 03-08-2002 04:22:24 PM
quote:
Check out the big brain on The Last Strider!
*rolls his eyes* So, does E=mc^2 govern the Human soul? Thought process?

Yes.

quote:
Non-science crap?

There is no such thing as "non-science crap".

quote:
And, No, I was not exaggerating on the other two things. I am totally serious. I can understand them not being believed, but they are true.

I think you are a big, fat LIER!

-Tok

Super Kagrama
ROFLELFOLOL!!!11!1 YUO CAN'T RAED MY POSTSSE!@!11
posted 03-08-2002 04:32:00 PM
quote:
Meridian impressed everyone with:
Personally I think "magic" is just something that science hasn't gotten around to explaining.

I agree.

i shoueld joeg threw the foreast moer offeand!!11
Vorago
A completely different kind of Buckethead
posted 03-08-2002 05:01:46 PM
I don't, but I think there is something out there

My two grandmas used to live in two seperate cities, Windsor (here) and Toronto (4 hours away)

Well, one day my grandma that lived here suffered a massive stroke and died shortly after in her home, she lived alone

We get a call from my grandma in Toronto, saying something was wrong with her sister. We check it out and find her body

No explanation for it, but she knew

But I wouldn't call it magic either

My mom and her sister are like that from time to time as well

When playing Pictionary they tend to know what the other is going to draw before she starts

*draw a single line*
"Pond!"
"right!"
*collective crowd goes 'WTF?'*

Razor
posted 03-08-2002 05:03:28 PM
Ki at work, is all I can say
Astronomy is a passion...
Engineering is a love...
My job isn't a job, it's my career, and I love every minute of it: Observatory Superintendent
Hostile Makeover
Evil as chocolate covered thistles
posted 03-08-2002 05:04:55 PM
Yes, I do believe in magic.
I've seen far too many things in my life which can only be explained by magic. It's a feeling, when on the first really nice warm day of spring, you wake up and just know that life is going to be good... finding a $5 bill on the street when you just realized you're almost outta gas and payday's not for another 4 days...

Magic can be found in thousands of different areas. It all just depends on where you look

Solstyce
Vampiric pixie that might eat your face, if you're lucky
posted 03-08-2002 05:11:49 PM
Just that some... truly weird crap has been going on around me lately. Personally, I beleive that yuou'd be a damn fool to ignore the fact that there's SOMETHING going on, that from even the basest stuff to the weird crap going on with me lately, odd stuff happens, and it happens often.
Shhh. Everyone will hear us. Everyone will know.
Blindy
Roll for initiative, Monkey Boy!
posted 03-08-2002 05:16:15 PM
No, sorry. I belive perception is equivilent to reality for that person, though.
On a plane ride, the more it shakes,
The more I have to let go.
Bloodcookie
Pancake
posted 03-08-2002 05:19:09 PM
I think it's pretty pointless to discriminate between what is "science," and what is "magic." If something exists in reality, then it is a part of nature, and therefore not "supernatural." Do I think that there are phenomena that contradict current scientific laws? Yes, the universe is a big place. So, I guess I believe in magic.

EDIT: Want to elaborate, Sol?

[ 03-08-2002: Message edited by: Bloodcookie ]


""...destructive analysis of the familiar is the only method of approach to an understanding of fundamentally different modes of expression." -Edward Sapir, Language
King Parcelan
Chicken of the Sea
posted 03-08-2002 05:21:19 PM
I do not believe in Bloodsage, Mortious, or Ja`Deth.

Mortious is a creature that parents say lives under their children's beds to frighten them into behaving.

Bloodsage is an urban legend that stalks teenage couples and scratches on their car doors while they're making out in the park.

Ja`Deth is a fey creature that is known for dancing around in wooded glens. If you catch him, he'll give you a pot of gold.

Malkav
C'mon, fear the fangs... plz
posted 03-08-2002 06:50:49 PM
I believe in magic, because otherwise, in my life coincidence has stacked up too many times for my liking, I get the precognative dreams others here have mentioned, I was seeing the shape if not the words of messages weeks before they were posted and saw the page in my dreams before I joined. I also have felt Razor raise the temprature of a room by several degrees with his body over a course of minutes, so yes I believe in magic.
Silently, the unnamed Senshi drew a small jewel-hilted athame from some form of pocket-space, and lightly ran it across the back of her left hand. Good, she wasn't one of those fools that slashed their palm open whenever one of the various reasons to use blood arose. I did the same with my own vorpal-bladed athame. It was a much plainer affair than my counterpart's, but I bet hers couldn't call up a higher-level demon just by carving a smiley face in the ground.
-Ranma in Can it get any worse by Dark Phoenix
Ragabash
Pancake
posted 03-08-2002 07:20:48 PM
To all you people who responded yes, just remember...

You'll always have a friend wearing big red shoes.

Feed my hungry soul.
Ozimander
$$$$$$$$$$$
posted 03-08-2002 07:28:25 PM
quote:
Bloodsage had this to say about pies:

"Magic" is just a label used by the ignorant, the romantic, and the religious.

Believe me sir, I am a romantic.

*gives Bloodsage a treat and a pat on the head*

Ozius

Ja'Deth Issar Ka'bael
I posted in a title changing thread.
posted 03-08-2002 07:37:21 PM
quote:
D had this to say about the Spice Girls:
Loch Ness.

And I believe in sixth senses. Pyrokenesis, telekenesis, etc.


Those aren't senses, D. Break down their meanings. Pyro-kinesis ("Fire Movement") and Tele-kinesis ("Distance Movement"). They're abilities granting some variety of control. ESP by definition deals with perception of something beyond the 5 normal senses (6 if you think the ability to sense the passage of time is a sense, which has been argued both ways).

Lyinar's sweetie and don't you forget it!*
"All those moments will be lost in time, like tears in rain. Time to die. -Roy Batty
*Also Lyinar's attack panda

sigpic courtesy of This Guy, original modified by me

Ja'Deth Issar Ka'bael
I posted in a title changing thread.
posted 03-08-2002 07:47:28 PM
quote:
Mr. Parcelan had this to say about Matthew Broderick:
I do not believe in Bloodsage, Mortious, or Ja`Deth.

Mortious is a creature that parents say lives under their children's beds to frighten them into behaving.

Bloodsage is an urban legend that stalks teenage couples and scratches on their car doors while they're making out in the park.

Ja`Deth is a fey creature that is known for dancing around in wooded glens. If you catch him, he'll give you a pot of gold.


Ain't nothin' fey about me...dancing in the glen? Damn explosion lit my ass on fire and I ran myself down to the water. And that "pot of gold" stuff is a rumor started by Arrenn.

Seriously, though, on the topic of "Is magic real?" I have to say only the following:

The romantic in me wants to believe there is magic in the world, or a meta-science that we could call magic. That part of me hopes someday we'll understand it. But the realist in me isn't going to give up my car in favor of a flying broom just yet.

Lyinar's sweetie and don't you forget it!*
"All those moments will be lost in time, like tears in rain. Time to die. -Roy Batty
*Also Lyinar's attack panda

sigpic courtesy of This Guy, original modified by me

ArchAngel
Not a girl, never will be, no matter how much you may hear differently
posted 03-08-2002 07:51:41 PM
I believe magic exists.

I've been called a dreamer, an idiot, and worse for believing so but it doesn't bother me... there's not a damn thing anybody can do or say to make me stop believing.

"What power would hell have if those imprisoned there could not dream of heaven?" -Dream, Sandman
"When the first living thing existed, I was there waiting. When the last living thing dies, my job will be finished. I'll put the chairs on the tables, turn out the lights, and lock the universe behind me as I leave." -Death, Sandman
"Things need not have happened to be true. Tales and dreams are the shadow truths that will endure when mere facts are dust and ashes, and forgot." Dream, Sandman
Full sigpic image
OtakuPenguin
Peels like a tangerine, but is juicy like an orange.
posted 03-08-2002 07:53:24 PM
No, science CANNOT explain everything.

Sorry, but no

..:: This Is The Sound Of Settling ::..
Tarquinn
Personally responsible for the decline of the American Dollar
posted 03-08-2002 07:58:27 PM
quote:
The Otaku Penguin had this to say about Punky Brewster:
No, science CANNOT explain everything.

Sorry, but no


Women for example ... =/

~Never underestimate the power of a Dark Clown.
King Parcelan
Chicken of the Sea
posted 03-08-2002 08:11:39 PM
There are two times when men will understand women:

-Right before they die.

-Right after they become one.

Death of Rats
Pancake
posted 03-08-2002 08:42:01 PM
yep i do. looks down, now if anyone can tell me how to stop levatating, starts to mutter under his breath, leviouso no? leviouso down...

seriousy? yes i do, ive seen toman weird stuff my self

A particularly crafty sea lion is befuddling the Army Corps of Engineers, who have come to believe the 1,000-pound mammal is either from hell -- or from Harvard.
Palador ChibiDragon
Dismembered
posted 03-08-2002 11:28:35 PM
Yes, I believe it exists.

However, I also feel it can be viewed as a branch of scientific art that has not been fully unlocked yet.

Why the phrase "scientific art"? Because I think that it can alter the rules of "normal science", such as 1+1=2. Therefore, just running the numbers and patterns won't do it, it will take the skills of both an artist and a scientist to use it.

Even so, I feel that it will have it's own rules that it follows. Magic won't just "work like magic", so to speak.

I believe in the existance of magic, not because I have seen proof of its existance, but because I refuse to live in a world where it does not exist.
Tier the GeniusĀ™
Dark Elf Pimp
posted 03-09-2002 12:50:27 AM
quote:
Mr. Parcelan had this to say about Cuba:
-Right after they become one.

d3wd wtf

Skaw
posted 03-09-2002 12:58:06 AM
Arguements between science and religion make baby <Random Scientific Relgious leader> cry.
Comrade Snoota
Communist
Da, Tovarisch!
posted 03-09-2002 01:03:09 AM
quote:
D had this to say about Robocop:
d3wd wtf

All babies begin their embryonic cycle with a penis. Over time in the female feti, the penis contracts into itself and 'changes shape'(I can't think of a good way of putting that ) into the female sexual organs. The clitoris is the exterior remnants of the penis.

[ 03-09-2002: Message edited by: Comrade_Snoota ]

You smell that? Do you smell that? ...Napalm, son. Nothing else in the world smells like that. I love the smell of napalm in the morning. You know, one time we had a hill bombed for twelve hours. When it was all over I walked up. We didn't find one of 'em, not one stinkin' dink body. The smell, you know that gasoline smell, the whole hill. Smelled like... victory.
Mr. Duck
Likes to ____!
posted 03-09-2002 01:07:03 AM
quote:
Comrade_Snoota had this to say about Cuba:
All babies begin their embryonic cycle with a penis. Over time in the female feti, the penis contracts into itself and 'changes shape'(I can't think of a good way of putting that ) into the female sexual organs. The clitoris is the exterior remnants of the penis.

they begin the embryonic cycle as female, with all the female organs (they aren't there but it is progammed into the DNA to make them). its not until after the first 6 weeks does the sex change occur

[ 03-09-2002: Message edited by: Mr. Duck ]

Comrade Snoota
Communist
Da, Tovarisch!
posted 03-09-2002 01:08:19 AM
I made my post up. I vaguely remember something about each baby starting as one sex and later changing from like sixth grade health, and just went from there.

You smell that? Do you smell that? ...Napalm, son. Nothing else in the world smells like that. I love the smell of napalm in the morning. You know, one time we had a hill bombed for twelve hours. When it was all over I walked up. We didn't find one of 'em, not one stinkin' dink body. The smell, you know that gasoline smell, the whole hill. Smelled like... victory.
Densetsu
NOT DRYSART
posted 03-09-2002 01:11:43 AM
Damn, I'm slow.

[ 03-09-2002: Message edited by: Densetsu ]

I was in the Virgin Islands once. I met a girl, we ate lobster, drank piƱa coladas. At sunset, we made love like sea otters. That was a pretty good day. Why couldn't I get that day over, and over?
Delphi Aegis
Pancake
posted 03-09-2002 01:12:24 AM
quote:
And I was all like 'Oh yeah?' and Mr. Parcelan was all like:
There are two times when men will understand women:

-Right before they die.

-Right after they become one.


<Insert romantic idealism about understanding women here>

quote:
Mr. Duck had this to say about Optimus Prime:
they begin the embryonic cycle as female, with all the female organs (they aren't there but it is progammed into the DNA to make them). its not until after the first 6 weeks does the sex change occur

<Insert flame here>
<Insert medical refrences and other somesuch proving Snoota was right here>

<Insert other smaller flammable topic here>
<Insert here>

Delphi
I walk in the Light
Facing the Darkness Boldly
I fear no Evil
Darius!
Pancake
posted 03-09-2002 01:31:35 AM
No, I dont believe in magic. I also dont believe in faries, dwarves, and elves do I could be wrong though.
Palador ChibiDragon
Dismembered
posted 03-09-2002 01:32:37 AM
quote:
First Dragon wrote, obviously thinking too hard:
No, I dont believe in magic. I also dont believe in faries, dwarves, and elves do I could be wrong though.

Do you believe in Dragons?

[ 03-09-2002: Message edited by: Palador ChibiDragon ]

I believe in the existance of magic, not because I have seen proof of its existance, but because I refuse to live in a world where it does not exist.
Bloodsage
Heart Attack
posted 03-09-2002 06:16:37 AM
"I can't explain it, therefore it must be magic," is the worst sort of logical fallacy.

Deja vu has already been explained by scientists. It has to do with the way the brain stores memories--it's quite easy to match sufficient parameters to get a feeling of "I've done this exact thing before!"

"Premonitions" through dreams work in similar ways. It has to do with pattern-matching in the brain.

If it's a detailed and large as certain people claim, they should start keeping logs so they can collect the million-dollar bounty for proving the existence of psychic powers . . . .

E=mc^2, as has been pointed out, does indeed govern all of the processes in the universe. Creating matter would require a huge input of energy, because it's not just a simple coversion. The nuclear forces that bind atoms store huge amounts of energy (c^2, and that's a lot).

While it's quite all right to believe what one wants, it's generally better not to hold believes that are easily disproved through elementary application of basic science. IMNSHO. One can believe the earth is flat all day, but that doesn't make it so.

To reign is worth ambition, though in Hell:
Better to reign in Hell than serve in Heaven.

--Satan, quoted by John Milton

OtakuPenguin
Peels like a tangerine, but is juicy like an orange.
posted 03-09-2002 10:26:28 AM
quote:
Bloodsage wrote this then went back to looking for porn:
"I can't explain it, therefore it must be magic," is the worst sort of logical fallacy.

Deja vu has already been explained by scientists. It has to do with the way the brain stores memories--it's quite easy to match sufficient parameters to get a feeling of "I've done this exact thing before!"

"Premonitions" through dreams work in similar ways. It has to do with pattern-matching in the brain.

If it's a detailed and large as certain people claim, they should start keeping logs so they can collect the million-dollar bounty for proving the existence of psychic powers . . . .

E=mc^2, as has been pointed out, does indeed govern all of the processes in the universe. Creating matter would require a huge input of energy, because it's not just a simple coversion. The nuclear forces that bind atoms store huge amounts of energy (c^2, and that's a lot).

While it's quite all right to believe what one wants, it's generally better not to hold believes that are easily disproved through elementary application of basic science. IMNSHO. One can believe the earth is flat all day, but that doesn't make it so.


Science cannot explain love. It may explain how the brain reacts around certain people, but it cannot explain love. Face it, there IS things that cannot be explained Via science.

..:: This Is The Sound Of Settling ::..
Skaw
posted 03-09-2002 10:40:44 AM
Emotions are Human ideas, as well as pain, sadness, happiness, being mad, etc.

[ 03-09-2002: Message edited by: Skaw ]

Ja'Deth Issar Ka'bael
I posted in a title changing thread.
posted 03-09-2002 10:41:48 AM
Depends. Do you want to believe that love is something magic? fine. Do you want to believe that love is a biochemical process governed by your genetimechanic makeup? Groovy. One is rooted in hard fact. One is rooted in fanciful ideas (thinking, by the way, is a bioelectrochemical process).

The thing that you have to remember is that whether it's magic or hardcore science doesn't really change the miraculous nature of it. I'm sure Bloodsage would agree that the scientific manner by which it all works is amazing in how complex it all really is. And any magic-loving sort would likely live in awe of it.

So you say potato, I say potahto, you say tomato, etc...

Lyinar's sweetie and don't you forget it!*
"All those moments will be lost in time, like tears in rain. Time to die. -Roy Batty
*Also Lyinar's attack panda

sigpic courtesy of This Guy, original modified by me

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