[ 12-08-2001: Message edited by: Drysart ]
quote:
Drysart thought this was the Ricky Martin Fan Club Forum and wrote:
Hmm.. there's a pretty strong leaning toward Gandalf. How about Drizzt versus Aragorn instead?
Having never read an R.A. Salvatore book, I must vote for Aragorn.
'sides, Aragorn is bad ass.
Aragorn shaped the way rangers were, being one of the first and foremost. Without Aragorn, Drizzt would be a stupid ol' fighter or something.
How about...
WIZARD'S BATTLE ROYALE!
Harry Potter vs Gandalf vs Elminster vs Raistlin Majere vs Merlin
We'll see some wizard BLOOD!
And I don't think we have a planet after those guys are done with it.
I think Potter dies first, because he's a little pussy British wizard with glasses. Sort of the nerd of wizardry, if you will.
Raistlin is the next to go. He just sits there, mumbling about evil and Takhisis, while the other wizards go to town on his ass.
Then comes Merlin, who was indeed just a handwizard, but a classic wizard. You know you loved Disney's "Sword in the Stone".
Next, Elminster goes kaput, because he gets distracted by Gandalf's taunts towards that lame-ass leopard skin cloak he wears all the time.
Gandalf wins.
5. Potter
4. Raistlin
3. Merlin
2. Elminster
1. Gandalf
quote:
Mr. Parcelan thought this was the Ricky Martin Fan Club Forum and wrote:
You know you loved Disney's "Sword in the Stone".
You know it, baby. 
quote:
Mr. Parcelan had this to say about Robocop:
WIZARD'S BATTLE ROYALE!Harry Potter vs Gandalf vs Elminster vs Raistlin Majere vs Merlin
We'll see some wizard BLOOD!
Given the fact that Elminster, Gandalf and Merlin are the same archetype of wizard I'd say that they kick Raistlin's ass together and take that Potter brat as their apprentice after the (very short) fight(hey, someone has to wash all the robes ...)
quote:
March 77
GANDALF WAS ONLY A
FIFTH LEVEL MAGIC-USER
by Bill Seligman
What?? I hear you scream. Impossible, you cry; Gandalf was at
least 30th, 40th, even 50th level!! After all, he was an Istari, and he had
lived at least 2000 years! Oh, really?, I reply. Let us take a look at all
the magic he ever performed, and see what was so high level about him.
First, let us leaf through the Hobbit. In order, Gandalfs spells
were: 1) To make fancy colored smoke rings and have them fly about
the room. This is no more than a variant on Pyrotechnics, with perhaps
a bit of Phantasmal Force mixed in. 2) Tricking the trolls with Ventrilo-
quism, a first level spell. 3) Lightning Bolts from his staff to kill the
Orcs as they kidnapped the Dwarves and Bilbo. Third level spell. 4) Py-
rotechnics to confuse the Orcs to rescue the Dwarves and Bilbo. Second
level spell. 5) Lighting the way for the Dwarves and Bilbo while in the
caves, with a glow from his staff. Second level spell. 6) Making pine
cones catch fire and tossing them down upon the Wargs from a tree. A
variant on Fireball, Pyrotechnics, and even the Druid spell Produce
Flame. It is not specifically a spell mentioned on the D&D lists, but it is
not terribly powerful all the same. 7) Tossing Sauron out of Dol Gul-
dur. He did this in combination with the White Council, and so this
does not count as an individual effort. (Besides, as I shall later show,
Sauron was no more, or not much more, than 7th or 8th level.) 8) A
combination of either Lightning Bolt or Light from his staff to warn
the good side of the Battle Of Five Armies to get together, as you
wish. Depending on the spell system you use, you may be able to
change these figures by a level or two, but so far Gandalf has shown no
abilities above 5th level.
Now, let us go to The Fellowship of The Ring. 1) His fireworks
display at Bilbos party: again, assuming they were magical, which does
not have to be true, a variant on Phantasmal Forces, Pyrotechnics, etc.
No more than second level. 2) Lightning Bolt battle with the Nazgul.
Third level spells. (All right, if you wish to call the taming of Shadow-
fax magical, O.K. After the episode at the gates of Moria, there is no
reason why Gandalf could not speak Equine, but a Charm Animal
spell would be easier than Charm Person anyway.) 3) Adding fighters
to the foam of the river that was overflowing the Nazgul. Phantasmal
Force, perhaps a variant on Monster Summoning I (since we have not a
hint as to the level of these fighters). 4) Lighting a fire in the middle of
the snowstorm. A touch of Fireball, or even Produce Flame. (Note here
Gandalf reveals how even this simple bit of magic can be detected for
such a large distance. This shows the magical weakness of Tolkiens
Middle Earth. Ah ha, you say, I see where you are wrong! Hold on, Ill
come to that point later.)
To continue: 5) the flames when fighting the Wargs. Variant on
Fireball, 3rd level. 6) Lighting the way in Moria. 1st level spell. 7)
Fighting the Balrog. In his description of the battle, it seems to me he
used only, or mostly, Lightning Bolts, with perhaps some Fireballs if
you are generous. Still only third level. 8) Being resurrected. But this is
not done by Gandalf, he wassent backback and therefore had
nothing himself to do with the feat.
On to The Two Towers: 1) The bursting into flame of Legolas ar-
row. A mild Fireball, perhaps even an unusual form of Protection from
Normal Missiles. 2) The awakening of Theoden. A combination of
Lightning, Light, and Darkness. No more than 3rd level. 3) The break-
ing of Sarumans staff. This could have been a natural result of one
Istari saying that to another, a mild Charm Person effect, or something
of that nature. It is not spectacular enough, in any case, to go beyond
third level spell-casting.
And now, The Return of The King: 1) The beams of light used to
rescue Faramir. No more powerful than Lightning Bolt, for all the ef-
fect they had. They could have been the 3rd level spell Firebeam de-
scribed in, I believe, Alarums and Excursions #12. 2) In the Battle of
Slag Hills, when Gandalf should perhaps have used the maximum
amount of his powers, he did nothing mentioned in the book. Perhaps
he used Lightning Bolt of Fireball/-beam, but still this is no higher than
3rd level spells. 3) Talking mind-to-mind with Elrond and Galadriel.
You dont need any more than ESP to make this work.
And that is it. If I have left any spells out, like Gandalf using the
The WESTFINSTERWARGAMERS have become a regular feature in LITTLE
WARS, and will be appearing here from time to time. ED.
Hold Portal or Wizard Lock in Moria, it is not intentional. But I do not
think that they would go beyond 3rd level. If the words I have used
such as variant make you think that he must have been at least 11th
level to research the spells, remember that he had his Staff, and the ring
Narya the Great, which was associated with fire-type spells anyway.
Since he was forced to use them several times, when, as I have shown, a
5th level mage did not need them, perhaps he was even less than 5th lev-
el, but I shall not try to press my point too far. If you ask how he lasted
so long battling a Balrog, I reply that that is a fault with the D&D com-
bat system, so the point that a 5th level mage could not withstand the
blows of the 10th level Balrog does not quite hold water. (I am referring
only to the Balrog in D&D, not including the Eldritch Wizardry char-
acteristics, as this type of Balrog is usually said to be too weak for a
true Tolkien Balrog. In fact, when placed in perspective with Gandalfs
battle with one, the Balrog described by Gygax and Arneson originally
was of normal strength. As far as I am concerned, the type VI demon is
a type VI demon, not a Balrog.)
As for Sauron: without going to too much detail, Clairvoyance,
ESP, and perhaps an advanced Wizards Eye, with much longer ranges
than described in D&D. But since he had the Palantir, maybe he let the
thing do most of the work for him, and his Red Eye. If you are go-
ing to be nasty, then let him have Control Weather, which makes him
12th level. Still not spectacular, when there are those who regard Sau-
ron as 75th level or so.
So how do we reconcile our intuition with the bare facts? Well, for
one thing, as I hinted above, the universe of LOTR was magic-weak. It
is easy to assume that it was run by a very tough DM who rewarded
experience so slowly that it would take 2000 years for a pseudo-angel to
get to the 5th level, and 6000 years or so for an EHP to reach 12th. But
it is still unsettling. I would rather place the blame on the scale we are
using: the D&D magic system. It seems a more likely thing for Gygax
and Arneson to misjudge the spell levels. So what can we do? Change
the spell system, the experience system or the levels of the spells, or all
of the above? What is your response?
Please address your responses to Out on A Limb. - Ed.
quote:
I would rather place the blame on the scale we are
using: the D&D magic system
I second that.
A) Has nothing to do with D&D,
B) Is a fantasy world maintained realistically, rather than one governend my numbers,
C) Has nothing do with D&D, and
D) Even predates D&D and its magic system.
Though I am looking forward to Mr. Seligman's forthcoming article, "C-3PO Is A Wily Robot".
Scenario 2) Gandalf throws a lightning bolt at Drizzt. Drizzt goes "ow" and turns Gandalf into a fine red mist.
Scenario 3) Gandalf tries to defend himself with Glamdring...Drizzt laughs at Gandalf and summons a globe of darkness just to laugh at him try and fight in the darkness. Drizzt turns gandalf into a fine red mist.
Scenario 4) Drizzt starts by summoning a globe of darkness on Gandalf, Gandalf is caught off guard and is turned into a fine red mist.
Scenario 5) gandalf throws a green-flamed pinecone at Drizzt, whom easily dodges and envelopes Gandalf with faery fire and proceeds to turn him into a fine red mist.
Scenario 6) Gandalf tries to reason with drizzt. Drizzt being a good guy agrees and gets jumped by Veirna and her cronies. Gandalf and Drizzt turn Veirna and her cronies into a large cloud of fine red mist.
Those are my predictions on scenario's of the supposed fight [ 12-08-2001: Message edited by: Siliddar ]
Gandalf might have a chance at a distance, but once drizzt gets within scimitar range, gandalf is...well..a fine red mist.
quote:
Fennar had this to say about John Romero:
Large text
I agree with several of the ideas presented. Middle earth is probably, by D&D standards, a magic-light world. You don't see any power-word kill or wish-type spells flying around, they wouldn't be appropriate for the series. Of course, because Tolkien was around first, you can argue which is the better standard. 
The only part I seriously dissagree on would be Sauron at 12th level. Admittedly, it's been a very long time since I've read the books, but am I thinking of the same Sauron the author is? Dark lord, ruler of Mordor, Direct inheritor of the ultimate evil god's power!? I mean, this guy's the closest thing LOTR has to an Avatar of a god. Can you picture a average squadon of guards or a small peasant gathering making him even break a sweat, let alone having a real chance at killing him? They're seriously underestimating him.
[ 12-08-2001: Message edited by: Chalesm ]
As for the matches, I'd have to go Gandalf for the Drizzt vs. Gandalf, possibly because Elminster is in part just D&D's vision of what Gandalf would be in their system, and we all know who would win between those two.
In the beginning the Universe was created.Douglas Adams, 1952-2001
On the other hand I can't see them fighting anymore than I could see Drizzt and Elminster fighting. (Both I belive were Neutral Good alignments or at least some form of Good alingment)
Lord of the Rings pre-dates all AD&D type fantasy. Why are you even measuring it on the same scale?
Your argument is beat, and you're flailing.
Drizzt pulls into himself and lets the hunter free.
Drizzt proccedes to slice, dice, chop, and cut Gandalf in more ways than ever though possible, then he goes on to destroy all Rign Wraiths, kill all the other bad guys, destroy the ring of power, make friends with the good elves of the world, and still get home in time for dinner. After which he goes to have some fun with CB While Wulfgar is drunk in some Pub...
quote:
Azizza had this to say about Pirotess:
Ahh one other thing we all forget.
The hunter..Drizzt pulls into himself and lets the hunter free.
Drizzt proccedes to slice, dice, chop, and cut Gandalf in more ways than ever though possible, then he goes on to destroy all Rign Wraiths, kill all the other bad guys, destroy the ring of power, make friends with the good elves of the world, and still get home in time for dinner. After which he goes to have some fun with CB While Wulfgar is drunk in some Pub...
Salvatore doesnt like to kill any characters
quote:
Anklebitur D'gnome wrote, obviously thinking too hard:
Salvatore doesnt like to kill any characters
Unlike George R. R. Martin . . . .
