Wrong!
About a month later, I get the first set of magazines I had been told I would be getting. Thinking this had been a fluke, I didn't think anything of it.
When I get the magazines AGAIN the next month, I send in a notice saying I had said I didn't want them.
Yesterday I got a letter saying I need to call their customer service. I do that this morning. After some arguing, they play back that initial conversation and state that because of that verbal agreement, all other conversations mean JACK FUCKING SHIT! 
Now I'm stuck still having to pay the balance for those magazines ($432)!! And in higher sums that with the original plan!
Sorry you got screwed by them. 
Under capitalism, man exploits man. Under communism, it's just the opposite. - John Kenneth Galbraith
quote:I plan on making death threats to them.
We were all impressed when Reynar wrote:
This is why you should not talk to telemarketers. If they say "are you interested in..." right then is when I say no and immediatly hangup.
But, if the second phone call was indeed a confirmation and you declined, then you're in the clear.
Because the first phone call was just an interest builder. If you declined the confirmation, you do have legal standing.
As far as I know, anyway. Anyone here more knowledgeable in the legal field?
quote:I plan on making death threats to them.
Guardian Azymyth had this to say about pies:
[QUOTE]We were all impressed when Reynar wrote:
[qb]This is why you should not talk to telemarketers. If they say "are you interested in..." right then is when I say no and immediatly hangup.
[/QB][/QUOTE]Do that, and they will phone the police on you. 
At the very least I get to change the magazines I'll still be getting to whatever I like. These next 4 months are going to be brutal though... [ 11-29-2001: Message edited by: Guardian Azymyth ]
quote:
Tell 'em to fuck themselves, then haul them to court.
quote:
And I was all like 'Oh yeah?' and Guardian Azymyth was all like:
Heh.. that's just the anger talking right now...
I figured 
I dont blame you either.
has anyone dealt with layers before? would there be a way to ask a lawyer quickly for free if there can be anything done about this, and who is in the right?
regardless of what happens, I would defiantly talk to the better business beau about this. [ 11-29-2001: Message edited by: diadem ]
Some states will allow the second call to be a cancelation that will stand, some won't.
Personally, I'm glad I live in Texas. I can charge them for my time. I have a 2 hour minimum and a $150/hr rate. If they want to continue talking to me I'll be more than glad to send them an invoice for my time.
Had a simmuer problem were i called in and thet signed me up for a "free" Persciption plan , told them no, Signed me up anyways. ^ mounth ;later i get billed 140 for it. told my bank to put a stop payment on it. never happend again.
Some of us have the experience to deal with these matters. 
*points to bar card*
Guardian, did you give them permission to tape you? If not, unless they had the warning that the conversation might be taped, that's a violation of the Federal Wiretap Act and perhaps also state law.
Second, you told them orally during their "confirmation" that you elected to cancel because you couldn't afford it. That's a cancellation of the contract or at least an oral modification (oral contracts can always be orally modified).
Third, if you sent in a written notice that you cancelled, in confirmation of the prior conversations, that can only work in your favor.
Fourth, how old are you? I can't remember offhand. If you are a minor, certain states have laws governing whether contracts with you are enforceable.
Here's what I would do.
Call them back and tell them in no uncertain terms that you will not be paying for any magazines. If they did not tell you they were taping, inform them that you are reporting them to the authorities, and that generally their behavior will be reported to the local Better Business Bureau. Tell them to go ahead and sue you, and you will bring up all this in open court (or with the local magistrate, which is likely where it would end up). For $400, they will likely drop it, and even if they don't, I don't think they can win.
A less antagonistic solution would be to offer to pay for the first magazines you received before you reminded them that you cancelled, but for nothing more.
I don't know all the facts, obviously, but you didn't sign anything, and I don't think they have a thing on you if you orally cancelled an alleged oral agreement.
[/attorney off] [ 11-29-2001: Message edited by: Gydyon Waterlapper ]
Thinking about your posts
(and billing you for it) since 2001
quote:
KaLourin DthBlayde wrote this then went back to looking for porn:
Verbal contracts dont mean dick.
Just as a friendly warning, verbal contracts are fully enforceable in all 50 states and most of the world. They are just harder to prove.
Thinking about your posts
(and billing you for it) since 2001
This would probably explain why I got a 'D' in Business Law oh so many years ago..
Nice.
Not an issue here, because Guardian is going to kick their weenie asses, but still.
Thinking about your posts
(and billing you for it) since 2001
Yes, I did know they were taping me. They told me so at the beginning.
Second and third things are true.
I'm 21.
In concern to the initial magazines I've already gotten, they said they already took care of them (taken my money right from my credit card I'm assuming).
Second, when I said I had no intention of paying for the rest, they brought of the recording of my first conversation and said because of that, they could just pull the remaining balance out of my credit card. My card doesn't have that high of a limit, so it was negotiated down to 4 payments.
quote:
Demitri stumbled drunkenly to the keyboard and typed:
*applauds Gydyon's legal knowledge*Nice.
I applaud and bow to it as well.
quote:
Gydyon Waterlapper had this to say about pies:
There are certain things that can't be the subject of oral contracts, like the sale of real estate or agreements that take more than a year to complete (generally big-ticket items), but verbal agreements are enforceable if you can prove they took place. Written agreement are much more useful.Not an issue here, because Guardian is going to kick their weenie asses, but still.
The original plan was 12 monthly installments for I believe 3 years worth of subscriptions.
And please, Azy will do
quote:
Guardian Azymyth impressed everyone with:
Second, when I said I had no intention of paying for the rest, they brought of the recording of my first conversation and said because of that, they could just pull the remaining balance out of my credit card. My card doesn't have that high of a limit, so it was negotiated down to 4 payments.
My advice:
Call your credit card company and tell them you are disputing all charges form this vendor, including the ones alread made. Tell them the exact circumstances, and they will likely either refuse to authorize the future charges or reissue your card with a new number (make sure you tell anyone who automatically debits your card that the number will be changed). Then call the magazine vendor and tell them what you did and that you won't be making any payments. And tell them that you are going to call your local Better Business Bureau and report them.
Did they tape the confirmation call? If so, I would demand that they provide you with both tapes. They will likely refuse, but demand anyway so you can say later that you did.
Finally, for future reference, if anyone asks to record you, say NO (unless it's CNN or something). Always. People can and will attempt to twist your words or selectively try to enforce parts of what you said while ignoring the rest.
Thinking about your posts
(and billing you for it) since 2001
One more thing. WHAT THE HELL IS THE AKF?
Don't refer me to those other threads where you all didn't answer the question......
Thinking about your posts
(and billing you for it) since 2001
quote:
Gydyon Waterlapper had this to say about Matthew Broderick:
WHAT THE HELL IS THE AKF?
I imagine half of the people with it in their sigs don't know the true meaning.
quote:
Guardian Azymyth had this to say about Jimmy Carter:
In concern to the initial magazines I've already gotten, they said they already took care of them (taken my money right from my credit card I'm assuming).Second, when I said I had no intention of paying for the rest, they brought of the recording of my first conversation and said because of that, they could just pull the remaining balance out of my credit card. My card doesn't have that high of a limit, so it was negotiated down to 4 payments.
Remember, your credit card is YOUR credit card. You are a customer of the bank that issued it and that bank is required by law to take steps to protect you from unwarranted charges.
Call up your credit card company and ask for a chargeback. This has a few benefits: first off, it will get you your money back. Secondly, they charge the merchant a fee for the hassle. Thirdly, it gives the merchant a black mark; if a merchant acquires too many chargebacks, they get blacklisted by the credit card companies and can no longer accept credit card payments.
Be sure to save the letter the magazine people sent you asking you to call their customer service. It's possible that they could furnish a copy of the call where you first accepted the magazines as proof that you ordered them to try to avoid a chargeback, at which point you can provide a copy of that letter to your credit card company as proof that they knew you wanted to cancel.
What he said.
Thinking about your posts
(and billing you for it) since 2001
If they say verbal contracts aren't enforcable, tell them that pretty much voids out your initial agreement too. (heh, that'll put a sock in their mouths.)
If they say they can't cancel the subscription because magazines have already been sent, tell them that you ordered them to cancel BEFORE the first magazine was sent. (And presumably before the first charge was made.)
If you talk to the magazine people again, be sure to tell them that you're considering legal action and that they'd better keep a copy of the second call (your denial call) since it's illegal to destroy evidence that might be brought up in a potential lawsuit.
Stick it to the man and shove the boot up their butts Azy.
I call the company a second time.
I tell them I've changed my credit card number and have no intention of making further payments because I had said no to them over the phone within a week or two after their initial call. They said they had no such records!
They didn't seem to care that I said I was to call my Better Business Bureau, because it was past the 10 day grace period from the time I made the initial comformation. They called me within 10 days of that intital comformation to see if I was sure. THAT is when I said no and they conveniently don't have a record of such a recording, even though they said it would be recorded.
Oh wait.. MAY be record. *rolls eyes*
So know, I'll be getting some call from a different type of CS.
quote:
Reynar had this to say about John Romero:
This is why you should not talk to telemarketers. If they say "are you interested in..." right then is when I say no and immediatly hangup.
Ha, I don't even let them get that far. As soon as I realize it's a telelmarketer, I'll interrupt them with "No thanks, I'm not interested" and hang-up then.
Although I feel a small amount of sympathy for people in that job, as I was a telemarketer at a time. I worked for my college's alumni association, calling up UNC alumni and asking them for donations. You got to hear every excuse in the world. And almost nobody ever wanted to talk to you. So I sometimes at least half-way listen when called. But if they're selling crap I don't want, I'm not going to wait for their sales pitch.
I got ripped off by a telemarketer once, they were providing information about government car auctions, and claimed they needed my checking account number to do a credit check (in retrospect, I was stupid to fall for that, the only thing you need for a credit check is the person's name.) Later, I get a notice from my bank stating my account was overdrawn. Turned out they used my so-called credit check to withdraw $90 from my account. Tried complaining, but their number was disconnected, and sending an official complaint got returned, because the address doesn't exist.
Never say yes unless you're 100% sure you want what they're selling, it's nearly impossible to change your mind later. And never give them any information unless you know you want to buy what they're selling, and know what they're going to charge you. Don't even give them your name!
quote:
Guardian Azymyth impressed everyone with:
I had said no to them over the phone within a week or two after their initial call. They said they had no such records!...
So know, I'll be getting some call from a different type of CS.
There's a record of the call somewhere. Your phone records, their phone records. If they insist on being stubborn about it those could be brought up in court as well. Be sure to inform them of that when they say they have no records of the second call.
But seriously, before they call you back again, call up your credit card company. You can find their CS number on your last statement from them. Then when the magazine people call back you can tell them that you've either had a chargeback issued, and/or had any future charges from them blocked. That'll pretty much cancel out any threats they can sling your way.
Be tough with them and don't give them an inch. Not ONE inch. Remember: they're trying to steal $500 from you, so treat them like the thieves they are.
Isn't there a manager or someone you can speak to about this? They can't FORCE you to buy them if you realized you can't afford them and canceled. That's awful.
quote:
We were all impressed when Drysart wrote:
But seriously, before they call you back again, call up your credit card company. You can find their CS number on your last statement from them. Then when the magazine people call back you can tell them that you've either had a chargeback issued, and/or had any future charges from them blocked. That'll pretty much cancel out any threats they can sling your way.Be tough with them and don't give them an inch. Not ONE inch. Remember: they're trying to steal $500 from you, so treat them like the thieves they are.
/agree wholeheartedly.
Don't let the bastards bring you down, Azy!!!!!
Thinking about your posts
(and billing you for it) since 2001
Do everything possible to get that money back, I won't repeat what's already been said in this thread, I believe it's all been covered.
You could always send them envelopes, full of baking flower.
quote:
Check out the big brain on Mortious Shadowstalker!
Things like this make Morty mad.Do everything possible to get that money back, I won't repeat what's already been said in this thread, I believe it's all been covered.
You could always send them envelopes, full of baking flower.
Dat would get him in trouble with da feds, honey *tickles Mortious*
Telemarketer: "Hello, is this Todd Muse?" (Most of them pronounce it Moose, which pisses me off.)
Me: "Who is this?"
Tele: "Well, this is (insert name here) from AT&T. Would you like to hear about our long distance plan?"
Me: "That depends. Would you like to hear about my escort service?" (Which I don't have.)
Tele: "...sir, If I could get some personal information, I can sign you up for our long distance plan, which is a great bargin."
Me: "What kind of personal information?"
Tele: "Home address, state of residence, monthly income-"
Me: "Well, first, why don't YOU give ME some personal information?"
Tele: "Ok..."
Me: "What is your date of birth?"
Tele: "Well, it's-"
Me: "What is your social security number?"
Tele: "Wait, I didn't-"
Me: "Blood type? Sexuality? Credit rating? Marital status? Current residence? Phone number?"
Tele: *click*
Necromancer: How DARE you imply that I was involved in a rude act with my undead servant! I will flay the flesh from your bones! I will summon a thousand maggot-ridden corpses to gnaw your flesh! I will trap your soul in-
Ghoul: My ass hurts.
