Khyron ran afoul of the "disagree intelligently and don't resort to starting a flamewar" rule.
They both have alternate accounts they can use to continue to post with.
sigpic courtesy of This Guy, original modified by me
What's old that's bad? How about:
magic magic magic magic and magic. In that order
What's new that good? Hmm.... Cute puppies and kitties, faster computers, hrm... [ 10-01-2001: Message edited by: Guardian Azymyth ]
Do not prove Parcstradamus wrong!
If you were really bothered by the complaints about netsplits, etc, there, then you'd have simply said "Don't post those things here."
Instead, you got petty, and started calling our server the "crappy IRC server". Just as you've turned against furries because they're not something that you agree with.
And I think it's very hypocritical to post in *my* thread about being accepting of the opinions of others, but then ban me and Khyron for giving an opposing view to what you think is right.
quote:
Guardian Azymyth had this to say about Matthew Broderick:
Remember kiddies: Old = crap, and New ALWAYS = good.What's old that's bad? How about:
magic magic magic magic and magic. In that order
I've never minded about the other IRC channel before (I mean, how long have there been two channels and I'm just now doing something? If the other channel bothered me personally, I'd have smacked it down far worse a long time ago), but with the recent crackdown on flamewars, and the recent flame thread complaining about the other IRC channel, and recent threads about netsplits, it's now a verboten topic until the firefighting period has passed.
If you have problems pertaining to that IRC channel, resolve them in that IRC channel. Not here.
should put the communist banner back up :P
Drys, you really are being very silly here. [ 10-01-2001: Message edited by: Fred Chook ]
I don't see where nixing the use of the S word really accomplishes anything. It's not like people were running all over spreading the word anyway. Yours is the first post people see, I'd imagine 9 times out of 10, when they come here and want to chat with us in person. Yours is the one people go to when they want to talk to Tim "Drysart" Fries, right? No-one's making any profit off of your work with our channel. There's no megabucks to be had or lost. None of us are scamming your ads or discussing ways around it.
Granted there was the unfortunate incident where folks brought up the Paul situation here when these are obviously not the boards for our channel. Personally I don't think it should have ever gotten as far as a board commentary anyway. If people were looking for Kenn's attention, they should have individually emailed him. So I can understand how one thread might stick in your craw.
But it's one thread. That can't possibly threaten you. So does it really piss you off that much to see the S word posted? Are you really worried that people are going to hang out in our channel over yours? I don't think you are. Most patrons either pick one, in which case they're not likely to change, or they split their time in both. It doesn't make your channel any less official. Yours IS the official board, because you say so. And people aren't going to mass migrate to evercrest.com, in large part because a lot of folks have put down roots on the S-net. Nothing wrong with that, and who are any of us to try and make them uproot? What's so convenient about uprooting Azymyth's #Andora or #VampCastle or #Talera or the RPCrest channels?
Might I suggest an alternate way of thinking? I know you're not going to embrace the S net channel, but you could at least take some pride in knowing that the community that you founded can support two channels full time. Limiting the use of the S-word seems kind of unnecessary when you think of that.
Yeah I was being a pain with the post you editted. But in some part I was also checking to see if PM's would nix the thing. Usually if it's a board rule, it's a PM rule, right? If not, I'm sorry.
As for Khyron and Lyinar...
Yeah I think this rubbed you the wrong way and I think your response rubbed others the wrong way. And yeah there's some personal trouble between you and Lyinar. On the other hand...And if it gets me banned I'm sorry...Do you really think...that what you do in the heat of the moment, in anger, is really the best thing? People respond to threads where people put it all down on the line and explain. Saying "No, because I say so" doesn't win any converts to your opinion. Seriously.
Did Lyinar and Khyron need some cooling off? Maybe. Only as much as you do. All victims of what Bloodsage described in another thread...everyone thinks their opinion is some divine edict and their belief is right. Yours carry more weight, Drys...you have all the keys, you control all the doors. But that doesn't mean that in the heat of the moment you don't sometimes make mistakes, right?
You were annoyed, yes? Okay. So were they. Phrasing could have gone better, unilateral decisions got made that shouldn't have been. Don't you think we should move on now?
sigpic courtesy of This Guy, original modified by me
If a thread turns into a flamewar, then it turns into a flamewar. You're just going to piss people off even more denying them even the basic right to let off steam, and give their opinion on what they want to give their opinion on.
quote:
Jania had this to say about dark elf butts:
If you were really bothered by the complaints about netsplits, etc, there, then you'd have simply said "Don't post those things here."
I did. Perhaps you missed the point of the change?
quote:
Jania had this to say about dark elf butts:
Instead, you got petty, and started calling our server the "crappy IRC server". Just as you've turned against furries because they're not something that you agree with.
Other than having up a silly header (read: humor; I picked the cutest furries I could fine) and adding bombs and Delidgabombs (read: humor; what else is a bouncing Delidgamond head supposed to be?) to furry sig pictures, to the tongue-in-cheek "war" against them (read: humor; or perhaps you didn't notice both 'sides' plotting silly missions to get the other side?), have I banned anyone from being furry? No? Oh... I guess I was just giving my opinion then.
And yes, calling it "the crappy IRC server" is petty. I'm an asshole, that's what assholes do. If you don't want it being called crappy, don't try to post about it.
quote:
Jania had this to say about dark elf butts:
And I think it's very hypocritical to post in *my* thread about being accepting of the opinions of others, but then ban me and Khyron for giving an opposing view to what you think is right.
You weren't banned for giving an opposing view about the topic at hand. You turned it into an 'admin abuse' issue (like you do any time I dare to have an opinion). I warned you about doing that twice before. This was your third strike.
I've been more than lenient with you doing that, in fact, me being the nice idiot that I am probably would have let you slip with another warning about it this time, but last time you did that, a friend of mine asked me "Why don't you just ban her? How many times has this happened now?".... and I didn't have a good answer.
My whole point was that anytime you don't like something, you either forbid it, or belittle it every chance you get. And you have to have noticed that the postings about goings on in our channel HAVE ceased. The two threads about Paul have been the only mention of it in quite a while now.
All I wanted to know, and expressed in my post, was where it was going to end. People are going to talk about things here, and you can't control every single thing that they say. You have to give them allowances, and lighten up, or you're going to have a lot of people around here upset with you, not just anyone that's spoken up on this thread.
Here, I will abuse my power of free speech on the board by giving my honest appraisal of the situation.
You're all wrong as a whole. You all also have valid points that, if put together, would solve the entire problem. However, neither side will do so. As a result, conversation on the topic is pointless and will result in more people being hurt.
Therefore, everybody in this thread needs to SHUT THE HELL UP.
Myself included.
-Carl.
This has turned into a "Favored Targets" conversation where someone plays the part of beleagured peacekeeper and begs for forgiveness and we sweep it under the rug til next time where we do this dance again.
I want to see this civilly handled. And don't any of you give me crap about how you can't have civil conversations. I'd like one honest post out of certain parties (and there are several people I'm talking about here) without political grandstanding, whining, politicking parables set up to lend credence to a point (let's face it we all have stories we can tell) and I'd like to see this handled. Rather than ham-handedness, avoidance, intolerance, rampant egotism, ignoring others, or flat out asshole behavior. [ 10-01-2001: Message edited by: Ja'Deth Issar Ka'bael ]
sigpic courtesy of This Guy, original modified by me
What does this thread and a Halfling Basketball Team have in common?
Neither make any sense!
Ba-dum-bum-ch!
Thank you, everyone! I'm here all week!
quote:
Ja'Deth Issar Ka'bael had this to say about Duck Tales:
I don't see where nixing the use of the S word really accomplishes anything.
It's overkill, but it's a result of declaring Martial Law against flamewars. I'm cutting out EVERY cause of flames, and I'm not skipping a topic because it's 'politically sensitive'. In a few weeks once the screws have been tightened down a bit and the rampant flaming of late has been muted, things will go back to how they were before.
I don't like being a dictator, it takes up too much of my time.
quote:
Ja'Deth Issar Ka'bael had this to say about Duck Tales:
Yeah I was being a pain with the post you editted. But in some part I was also checking to see if PM's would nix the thing. Usually if it's a board rule, it's a PM rule, right? If not, I'm sorry.
It shouldn't be applying to PMs, just public posts. If it is, let me know and I'll fix it.
quote:
Ja'Deth Issar Ka'bael had this to say about Duck Tales:
As for Khyron and Lyinar...Yeah I think this rubbed you the wrong way and I think your response rubbed others the wrong way. And yeah there's some personal trouble between you and Lyinar. On the other hand...And if it gets me banned I'm sorry...Do you really think...that what you do in the heat of the moment, in anger, is really the best thing? People respond to threads where people put it all down on the line and explain. Saying "No, because I say so" doesn't win any converts to your opinion. Seriously.
I'm not interested in being popular. I do what I see as the right thing. It's what I've done since day one of the site, and it's worked so far.
I make mistakes, and I've never backed down on owning up to them either. People that PM me with problems (as I've asked them to do) find that I often turn 180 on a stance. Mort still posts here, despite getting seriously on my bad side and being banned a couple times. If I was really as "my way or the highway" as I sometimes joke that I am (and I guess some people believe I really am), he'd be gone... Kekvit would be gone... Fred Chook would be gone.
quote:
Ja'Deth Issar Ka'bael had this to say about Duck Tales:
You were annoyed, yes? Okay. So were they. Phrasing could have gone better, unilateral decisions got made that shouldn't have been. Don't you think we should move on now?
As with all bannings, theirs are subject to re-review whenever they want to bring them up to me privately (and with only Paul554 as an exception, everyone who's asked has been unbanned). And they both have alternate accounts (at least, I'm pretty sure Khyron does), so they can still read and post until then.
quote:
Drysart had this to say about Robocop:
Quack
Smile please. [ 10-01-2001: Message edited by: ChibiDragon ]
quote:
We were all impressed when Jania wrote:
Anytime someone doesn't see something exactly the way you see it, Tim, you claim they're bringing up an "admin abuse" issue.
No. You're pretty much the only one that does it.
Please explain how furries or predictions of what else might become "taboo" relate the topic of the IRC channel?
quote:
We were all impressed when Jania wrote:
My whole point was that anytime you don't like something, you either forbid it, or belittle it every chance you get. And you have to have noticed that the postings about goings on in our channel HAVE ceased. The two threads about Paul have been the only mention of it in quite a while now.
Well, if they'd stopped, this thread would never have come about. 
And, I locked a thread this morning about netsplits (maybe two, though I think the other thread was about Paul).
I hardly see how me belittling something is cause to try to call everyone to battle stations against me. I have my opinions, just like you.
I didn't censor furries, as you've been trying to imply. I made jokes about them, and though you probably didn't notice, I also TOOK many jokes about them with the humor the war on furries was intended for.
Ask Ferrel or Katrinity if they felt I was trying to censor them. They're two of the most dedicated furries on the board and they both played along with it in the light it was intended.
quote:
We were all impressed when Jania wrote:
All I wanted to know, and expressed in my post, was where it was going to end. People are going to talk about things here, and you can't control every single thing that they say. You have to give them allowances, and lighten up, or you're going to have a lot of people around here upset with you, not just anyone that's spoken up on this thread.
Please give me an example of when I've actively censored someone (i.e., not just disagreed, or given them a title about it... something that actually affected their posting) for simply disagreeing with me, and you'll have a point.
Until then, you're just being alarmist. [ 10-01-2001: Message edited by: Drysart ]
Anyways...
I don't think anyone in this case should have to ask for apologies. Like I said, no-one is disputing that this is your territory. The dispute was in your actions.
And we're all popular creatures. We all do things with backing. Rational creatures question what they do, and look to others for guidance. We all do it. What I meant by winning others to your opinion is that you're doing twice the work to get half the job done. I've not seen more than a paragraph or two from you around here lately. Admittedly I don't go counting Drysart posts on this board, but still. Fae wrote a long essay. I write almost daily essays. Bloodsage writes them. Even Lyinar did it. Parcelan did it too. I think you'd find people a lot more receptive if you opened up and talked to us rather than at us. My mentor in teaching once said you can either teach a student or you can teach material. It seems to apply hear. You can either help us all get some insight into you, or you can do what you're doing now which comes off as distant.
sigpic courtesy of This Guy, original modified by me
Well, It happened, as I knew it was going to, sooner or later. I made a post to the EverCrest.com forums that Drysart didn't like, and was banned. No warning, no second chances. Well, one second chance, in the form of an account created to be used only a few times, that has not been used for months, that I could not for the life of me remember the password to. Obviously, I found it.
It wasn't giving my opinion was that banned me, I suppose, but rather the way in which I stated that opinion. I deliberately used a childish, immature voice to make that post that got me banned. On the other hand, it was that same childish, immature voice that started changing 'the crappy IRC network' into 'crappy IRC network'. Of all the possible terms, Drys, I think this one was one of the worst that you could have used.
Do I feel that what I said was wrong? Yes. But that in no way, shape or form, means that I think you aren't wrong in your absolute ban against the word 'magic' or the chatroom the crappy IRC network. If given the chance, I would continue posting on EverCrest. I have friends here, people I still wish to converse with, as Khyron. People I'd still like to chat with. People I still care for. I don't think that I was wrong to speak up against the censorship that you imposed, Drysart. I don't think I was wrong to speak up against it. But maybe I was wrong for the way I did.
I'm not gonna beg for Drys to reinstate my account. I'm not gonna plead with him to let me back in. I am gonna say what I should have said in the first place, instead of the rant that got me banned.
Drysart, I looked at what you're doing. I don't think it's mature. I don't think it's acceptable. I do think it's forced censorship. I think that there's a thousand better ways you could handle this, than the one you've chosen. I think you need to take a step back and consider what you've done; imposed restrictions on the people that come to your board. Placing absolute restrictions not on the TONE or MESSAGE, but on the words use. I'm not against having rules, Rules are fine. Rules are needed to keep order. I am not against directly imposing rules against certain types of posts. Posts that are deliberate cries for attention, or deliberate personal attacks. I am against imposing rules against mere words, that could be used in any posts, words that could be used in good or bad ways.
There's a lot of people, good people, smart, funny, that go to the old server, people that think EC is great. People that enjoy the strip, the board, the chat room. New users who log on might think Syn is such a great person they'd want to chat with her. Or they'd get to know new friends in IRC. That is why I have CONTINUALLY asked for our server to be listed with yours. Not to split EC up between the two; that's already happened. To keep EC as a single community. To give all the new people a chance to come in here and meet those of us in this server, as well as to meet those in yours.
That's probably what I should have said in the first place. But, I honestly responded, Drysart, in the way I felt you did. I do feel my post was childish and immature, Drysart, but I think the censorship you've imposed upon us, is just as much so. I don't feel that censorship can in ANY way be good for the community. For the friends of you and me who come in here, for the people that find refuge here. I don't feel that what you're doing is right. Yes, I do see why the recent threads upset you. But I don't think you've made the right choice.
I've done my best to keep this post as calm as I can, but sometimes, when speaking up against something you don't beleive is right or fair, it's hard to do just that. Emotions, strong feelings, are part of what makes us human, after all. That, and making mistakes. I think I made one, Tim. And I think you did as well. The question is what we learn from them.
quote:
We were all impressed when DrysartIf you have problems pertaining to that IRC channel, resolve them in that IRC channel. Not here.[/QB]
Well said, fellow cartoonist. Very well said. And he's right, y'know. I hope in the future that the problems in THAT IRC channel stay in THAT IRC channel.
This has been a highly entertaining thread
I go to the old IRC server because I know more people there, and to help keep the peace (I'm the morning Op). Keeping two windows open can get annoying, I might get a new client and visit both in the future
quote:
Reynar had this to say about Robocop:
ROFLThis has been a highly entertaining thread
Yes, it is. Better than the comic. 
I'll keep my opinions to IRC and to those I wish to tell them to.
quote:
Lashanna had this to say about Captain Planet:
All I have to say is... Wow... My DSL breaks down for abit, and yeesh...I'll keep my opinions to IRC and to those I wish to tell them to.
Question: Whoever that is in your sig pic, how does she stand up without seriously hurting her back?
So... that makes all these arguments null and void. Thank you, have a nice day
quote:
Mortious Shadowstalker had this to say about dark elf butts:
So... that makes all these arguments null and void. Thank you, have a nice day
winnar
quote:
Pesco had this to say about dark elf butts:
Demitri's sig pic reminds me of my days as a Customer Service Manager at the local Kroger.
I'm about to change it, the bruises are starting to heal.
quote:
Demitri had this to say about Jimmy Carter:
I'm about to change it, the bruises are starting to heal.
Your new sig pic still reminds me of my days as a Customer Service Manager at the local Kroger.
quote:
Kagrama had this to say about Jimmy Carter:
winnar
Yup, and it appears that Lyinar and Khyron got themselves banned needlessly. An obsolete argument, and one that could've been solved easily (read: my above post).
[Edit: First post came out wrong] [ 10-01-2001: Message edited by: Mortious Shadowstalker ]
HE OWNS THESE BOARDS.
Yup. Get that. He pays for them. He doesn't owe any of you anything. If he decided that every post had to end with "Tim R God!" or you'd be banned, then Howdy Ho neighbor, that's his right.
Even if you're paying for a subscription, you haven't bought the right to tell him how to run his site.
So stop being Assheads, Asswoods, and Assasses and just friggin post stuff with the realization that this comes out of his damn pocket.
I got your back Drys.
Tim R God.
((PS. If you even think about trying to argue against that point, you're a friggin idiot.)) [ 10-01-2001: Message edited by: Woody ]
