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What would a day without illegal aliens really be like? Let’s try to imagine it.

On May 1, millions of illegal aliens working in meat-processing plants, construction, restaurants, hotels, and other “jobs Americans won’t do” are supposed to stay home from work to show the importance of their labor to our nation’s economy. Doubtless, there will be some inconvenience if that happens, but there is another side to the story that is not being reported.

We are talking about illegal aliens, not mere “immigrants.” If legal immigrants stopped working for a day, we would miss the services of physicians, nurses, computer programmers, writers, actors, musicians, entrepreneurs of all stripes, and some airline pilots…as well as the CEO of Google. That would be more than an inconvenience, but it won’t happen because legal immigrants are not out marching angrily for rights that are already protected by our courts.

But if illegal aliens all took the day off and were truly invisible for one day, there would be some plusses along with the mild inconveniences.

Hospital emergency rooms across the southwest would have about 20-percent fewer patients, and there would be 183,000 fewer people in Colorado without health insurance.

OBGYN wards in Denver would have 24-percent fewer deliveries and Los Angeles’s maternity-ward deliveries would drop by 40 percent and maternity billings to Medi-Cal would drop by 66 percent.

Youth gangs would see their membership drop by 50 percent in many states, and in Phoenix, child-molestation cases would drop by 34 percent and auto theft by 40 percent.

In Durango, Colorado, and the Four Corners area and the surrounding Indian reservations, the methamphetamine epidemic would slow for one day, as the 90 percent of that drug now being brought in from Mexico was held in Albuquerque and Farmington a few hours longer. According to the sheriff of La Plata County, Colorado, meth is now being brought in by ordinary illegal aliens as well as professional drug dealers.

If the “Day-Without-an-Immigrant Boycott” had been held a year earlier on May 8, 2005, and illegal alien Raul Garcia-Gomez had stayed home and did not work or go to a party that day, Denver police officer Donnie Young would still be alive and Garcia-Gomez would not be sitting in a Denver jail awaiting trial.

If the boycott had been held on July 1, 2004, Justin Goodman of Thornton, Colorado, would still be riding his motorcycle and Roberto Martinez-Ruiz would not be in prison for killing him and then fleeing the scene while driving on a suspended license.

If illegal aliens stayed home—in Mexico, Guatemala, Brazil, and 100 other countries—the Border Patrol would have 3,500 fewer apprehensions (of the 12,000 who try each day).

Colorado taxpayers would save almost $3,000,000 in one day if illegals do not access any public services, because illegal aliens cost the state over $1 billion annually according to the best estimates.

Colorado’s K-12 school classrooms would have 131,000 fewer students if illegal aliens and the children of illegals were to stay home, and Denver high schools’ dropout rate would once again approach the national norm.

Colorado’s jails and prisons would have 10-percent fewer inmates, and Denver and many other towns would not need to build so many new jails to accommodate the overcrowding.

Our highway patrol and county sheriffs would have about far fewer DUI arrests and there would be a dramatic decline in rollovers of vanloads of illegal aliens on I-70 and other highways.

On a Day Without an Illegal Immigrant, thousands of workers and small contractors in the construction industry across Colorado would have their jobs back, the jobs given to illegal workers because they work for lower wages and no benefits. (On the other hand, if labor unions continue signing up illegal workers, no one will be worrying about Joe Six-Pack’s loss. Sorry, Joe, but you forgot to tell your union business agent that your job is as important as his is.)

If it fell on a Sunday, Catholic Churches in the southwestern states might have 20-percent fewer parishioners at Mass if all illegals stayed home, but they would be back next Sunday, so the bishop’s job is not in danger. The religious leaders who send people to the marches and rallies will never fear for their jobs, because illegal aliens need their special “human-rights” advocacy and some priests and nuns seem especially devoted to that cause. The fact that most Catholics disagree with the bishops’ radicalism doesn’t seem to affect their dedication to undermining the rule of law.

All of this might be a passing colorful episode in the heated national debate over immigration policy if it weren’t for an odd coincidence: The immigration-enforcement agency responsible for locating and deporting illegal aliens is also taking the day off today. Of course, they didn’t call it a boycott. It is just (non)business as usual.

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Peanut butter ass Shaq JooJooFlop booooze lime pole over bench lick:
Is this another "deport every last illegal immigrant, anything else is just amnesty" argument?

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Everything else, by definition, IS amnesty.

But I thought you didn't make snap comments based entirely on the headline/author without reading the article first?

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Maradon! stumbled drunkenly to the keyboard and typed:
Everything else, by definition, IS amnesty.

But I thought you didn't make snap comments based entirely on the headline/author without reading the article first?

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I don't, that's why I ask questions. It gives people a chance to clarify their positions in their own words. I find it more helpful to an honest debate than simply making assumptions about other people's opinions and then attacking them regardless of their authenticity.

And yes, I did read the article. Yet another list of the harmful effects our current immigration policies have on our society that most reasonable people acknowledge exist (to some extent, satistics lists such as these are almost always padded with bullshit regardless of the topic they cover).

However, most reasonable people also acknowledge that simply rounding up every last illegal immigrant (even the ones with steady jobs/homes/families/etc) and shipping them off back where they came from would be economically devistating if it wasn't nigh-impossible logistically. It's nothing more than mastibatory fantasy.

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JooJooFloping:
However, most reasonable people also acknowledge that simply rounding up every last illegal immigrant (even the ones with steady jobs/homes/families/etc) and shipping them off back where they came from would be economically devistating if it wasn't nigh-impossible logistically. It's nothing more than mastibatory fantasy.

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That doesn't mean that it isn't amnesty. The only reason anybody shys away from the fact is because it's a political suicide-word.

Honestly I'm not even all that concerned with the illegal aliens currently in the country. What I advocate is the following steps:

1) Secure the boarder
2) Secure the boarder
3) Secure the fucking boarder
4) Figure out what to do with the illegal aliens currently in the country.

No social services of any kind unless you report. Gainfully employed? You stay. Intermarried? You stay. Unemployed? Deported. Criminal record? Deported. But really all this is just quibbling compared to securing the fucking boarder.

Also of note is a recent Rasmussen poll that concluded that people are so in favor of securing the boarder that an independent candidate who ran with that as a part of his platform would win by 9 points.

Maradon! fucked around with this message on 05-07-2006 at 11:04 PM.

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Maradon! wrote this stupid crap:
No social services of any kind unless you report. Gainfully employed? You stay. Intermarried? You stay. Unemployed? Deported. Criminal record? Deported.

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Sounds a bit like the current immigration bill in the works which I support, wherein people who are deemed postitive members of society may stay and attain citizenship after various conditions are met (payment of fines/back taxes, learning of english, wait of up to 14+ years).

As for the new topic of boarder security, there really isn't much to discuss since it's not a matter of should so much as a matter of how. Many people advocate the building of a partial or full fence/wall a la Israel but without adequate manpower to survey it and aprehend whoever tries to climb over/tunnel under/break through it wouldn't be very effective. And if you had that many people to watch the boarder in the first place it seems to me the construction of an almost certainly expensive barracade would be unnecessary.

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Maradon! thought this was the Ricky Martin Fan Club Forum and wrote:
...
1) Secure the boarder
2) Secure the boarder
3) Secure the fucking boarder

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Did you spell it wrong on purpose, or are we talking about the Winter X-Games?

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Gadani stopped beating up furries long enough to write:
Did you spell it wrong on purpose, or are we talking about the Winter X-Games?

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Shhhhhhh, just go along with it. It's easier this way.

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From the book of Gadani, chapter 3, verse 16:
Did you spell it wrong on purpose, or are we talking about the Winter X-Games?

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JooJooFloping:
As for the new topic of boarder security, there really isn't much to discuss since it's not a matter of should so much as a matter of how. Many people advocate the building of a partial or full fence/wall a la Israel but without adequate manpower to survey it and aprehend whoever tries to climb over/tunnel under/break through it wouldn't be very effective. And if you had that many people to watch the boarder in the first place it seems to me the construction of an almost certainly expensive barracade would be unnecessary.

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Manpower isn't an issue, I've heard this argument before - "How will we build a wall without illegal immigrants?" and it's specious. Illegal immigrants represent less than 14% of the construction industry, and the bulk of that is in "Manpower" walk-in agencies which don't get government contracts.

As for cost, if a wall would even cut border jumping by a third it would probably end up paying for itself.

Combine a physical barrier with denial of access to the welfare state and I could easily imagine illegal immigration being severely stunted.

Yes, I realize it's spelled "border", but like Somethor it's just one of those words that I reflexively add a vowel to, sorta like the british do but with different words.

And no, the current bill as I understand it does little to INS and nothing to the border.

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Peanut butter ass Shaq Fazum'Zen Fastfist booooze lime pole over bench lick:
I'm driving your car, so you might as well let me have it.

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I broke into your house, but I've been here a few years so legally I have every right to stay here.

You're paying for all the utilities, by the way.

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Verily, Maradon! doth proclaim:
Manpower isn't an issue, I've heard this argument before - "How will we build a wall without illegal immigrants?" and it's specious. Illegal immigrants represent less than 14% of the construction industry, and the bulk of that is in "Manpower" walk-in agencies which don't get government contracts.

As for cost, if a wall would even cut border jumping by a third it would probably end up paying for itself.

Combine a physical barrier with denial of access to the welfare state and I could easily imagine illegal immigration being severely stunted.

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I was talking about who would monitor the boarder to make sure no one breeched the wall, not who would build the damn thing. Building it is easy, making sure people stay on the other side of it is the tricky part. That is going to take a lot more people than we have there now. If you have no one there to pick up whoever tries to cross a wall won't keep them out for very long. As for denying them access to welfare, that'd take something like a national ID system to deter identity fraud and that's never been an easy sale due to concerns regarding privacy and erosion of state's rights.

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Maradon! had this to say about Pirotess:
I broke into your house, but I've been here a few years so legally I have every right to stay here.

You're paying for all the utilities, by the way.

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I raped your mom, so you might as well give me the kid.

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If the “Day-Without-an-Immigrant Boycott” had been held a year earlier on May 8, 2005, and illegal alien Raul Garcia-Gomez had stayed home and did not work or go to a party that day, Denver police officer Donnie Young would still be alive and Garcia-Gomez would not be sitting in a Denver jail awaiting trial.

If the boycott had been held on July 1, 2004, Justin Goodman of Thornton, Colorado, would still be riding his motorcycle and Roberto Martinez-Ruiz would not be in prison for killing him and then fleeing the scene while driving on a suspended license.

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The details are a bit vague, but I'm not sure what the point of those couple of paragraphs is. It seems like "If we had just taken care of all the Jews, David Berkowitz's victims would still be alive."

Maybe there's some specifics to these cases that I'm not privy to.

Lashanna fucked around with this message on 05-08-2006 at 12:18 AM.

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A sleep deprived Lashanna stammered:
I can see and understand most of the points made in the article, but these seem a bit out of place:

The details on the first incident are a bit vague but the second sounds like it was a car-motorcycle accident which happens all the time without the influence of illegal immigrants.

I'm not sure what the point of those couple of paragraphs is. It seems like "If we had just taken care of all the Jews, David Berkowitz's victims would still be alive."

Maybe there's some specifics to these cases that I'm not privy to.

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The point is those people shouldn't have been in the country in the first place, and if illegal immigration wasn't so rampant they might not have been and they wouldn't have caused those deaths. I don't believe there are any laws against being jewish so it isn't a valid comparison.

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Peanut butter ass Shaq JooJooFlop booooze lime pole over bench lick:
I was talking about who would monitor the boarder to make sure no one breeched the wall, not who would build the damn thing. Building it is easy, making sure people stay on the other side of it is the tricky part. That is going to take a lot more people than we have there now. If you have no one there to pick up whoever tries to cross a wall won't keep them out for very long. As for denying them access to welfare, that'd take something like a national ID system to deter identity fraud and that's never been an easy sale due to concerns regarding privacy and erosion of state's rights.

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Again, we're losing so much money to illegal immigration there isn't much that wouldn't be justified. Money sent back to the country by illegal immigration is mexico's #1 source of income, and that doesn't even begin to cover property damage and burden to the welfare state.

If I had my way we'd move to a flat or consumption tax and send the 44,000 jobs currently tied up by the IRS to cover the border.

Of course, if I had my way we wouldn't have a welfare state to begin with, and we'd probably just annex mexico.

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Lashanna had this to say about Duck Tales:

The details are a bit vague, but I'm not sure what the point of those couple of paragraphs is. It seems like "If we had just taken care of all the Jews, David Berkowitz's victims would still be alive."

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It's simple, really. This article mentions almost nothing outside of Denver, Colorado. The two individuals mentioned were most likely well-liked members of the community who fell victim to crimes committed by people who happened to be illegal immigrants.

[Edit: I like Joojoo's explanation better, though.]

Densetsu fucked around with this message on 05-08-2006 at 12:29 AM.

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JooJooFlop stopped staring at Deedlit long enough to write:
The point is those people shouldn't have been in the country in the first place, and if illegal immigration wasn't so rampant they might not have been and they wouldn't have caused those deaths. I don't believe there are any laws against being jewish so it isn't a valid comparison.

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It's very valid. If you want to argue that Jews are a problem in our society, you can pick out Berkowitz as well as you can argue that immigrants are a problem in our society because of Roberto Martinez-Ruiz's actions.

Rather, the fact that there are no laws against being Jewish is what is actually irrelevant. The arguement involving Berkowitz would be invoked against Jews having a legitimate presence just as the arguement involving Martinez-Ruiz would be invoked against laws being created to allow these illegal immigrants here in the States.

I'm not agreeing or disagreeing with the overall position of the article. I'm just saying that there is plenty of material to make a case for or against illegal immigrants without dredging up "this illegal immigrant did this."

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Densetsuing:
It's simple, really. This article mentions almost nothing outside of Denver, Colorado. The two individuals mentioned were most likely well-liked members of the community who fell victim to crimes committed by people who happened to be illegal immigrants.

[Edit: I like Joojoo's explanation better, though.]

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Uh, yeah, as Tom Tancredo is a congressman for colorado, that kinda stands to reason.

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Lashanna had this to say about Reading Rainbow:
It's very valid. If you want to argue that Jews are a problem in our society, you can pick out Berkowitz as well as you can argue that immigrants are a problem in our society because of Roberto Martinez-Ruiz's actions.

Rather, the fact that there are no laws against being Jewish is what is actually irrelevant. The arguement involving Berkowitz would be invoked against Jews having a legitimate presence just as the arguement involving Martinez-Ruiz would be invoked against laws being created to allow these illegal immigrants here in the States.

I'm not agreeing or disagreeing with the overall position of the article. I'm just saying that there is plenty of material to make a case for or against illegal immigrants without dredging up "this illegal immigrant did this."

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I think the biggest mistake in reason you are making is that the status of illegal immigrant is somehow equivalent to racial or religious identity.

I suppose the easiest way I can put it is that Berkowitz had every right to be in New York. Those guys in Colorado did not. If our immigration system wasn't so dysfunctional they may not have been there to commit those crimes. It shows a failure on the part of our immigration system, which is what this whole argument is really about.

JooJooFlop fucked around with this message on 05-08-2006 at 01:12 AM.

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Elvish Crack Piper spewed forth this undeniable truth:
Some parts of the texas/mexico border already have, if I remember correctly, "minutemen" who do volunteer border patrols and have been a great asset to the official law enforcement.

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Their reception has been somewhat mixed. Some law enforcement/border patrol don't mind them and others see them as a nuisance. Landowners in Texas threatened to shoot them if they went on their property.

Their biggest problem is they're not effective at weeding the kooks/racists out of their ranks.

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JooJooFlop stopped beating up furries long enough to write:
Their reception has been somewhat mixed. Some law enforcement/border patrol don't mind them and others see them as a nuisance. Landowners in Texas threatened to shoot them if they went on their property.

Their biggest problem is they're not effective at weeding the kooks/racists out of their ranks.

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Landowners in Texas threaten to shoot anyone who goes on their property, so that's nothing special.

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Yes, Naimah deserved to die, and I hope they burn in hell!
Landowners in Texas threaten to shoot anyone who goes on their property, so that's nothing special.

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Hell, I'm in Georgia and I threaten to shoot anyone who comes unwanted on my property.

Because I live out here where Deliverance was filmed.

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Sean had this to say about Pirotess:
Hell, I'm in Georgia and I threaten to shoot anyone who comes unwanted on my property.

Because I live out here where Deliverance was filmed.

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Do people where you live tell eachother they have purty mouths as a sort of greeting/running joke?

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Quoth JooJooFlop:
Do people where you live tell eachother they have purty mouths as a sort of greeting/running joke?

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No, but if you hear banjo music, start running and don't look back!

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Lashanna wrote this stupid crap:
I'm not agreeing or disagreeing with the overall position of the article. I'm just saying that there is plenty of material to make a case for or against illegal immigrants without dredging up "this illegal immigrant did this."

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I see the point your getting at, but I think it's sort of tangential to the thrust intent of the article cited. The whole point of the "day without" movement was to show us that illegals and so forth are necessary for the function of the country.

The problem is that their whole movement was based on certain fallacies.

First off, no one is attacking legal immigrants. If you've gone through the process and are a legal citizen, or are in the process of gaining citizenship and are in good standing, the outcry isn't against you.

Secondly it isn't a racial or ethnic argument. As it happens, the majority of the illegals in the country are hispanic/latino, but the outcry isn't "get all the latinos and hispanics out". It's not "Get the asians out of the country" or "those damned germanics have to go". It's not the first time I've heard the argument. On NPR's "News and Notes" program, they're constantly going on about how white America isn't comfortable with the so-called "browning of America" but even if it were true, we're not talking about singling out racial minorities. We're talking about people without legal status living in the country with all the benefits and none of the penalties. Therefore your argument drawing parallels to Jews is something of a misnomer. But given that there's no parallel quite like citzenship vs noncitizenship, it's hard to find a parallel, so you can be forgiven for that apples and oranges fallacy.

The third and major point (that gets obscured because everyone wants to tack on their own personal spin) was that people don't appreciate the contribution illegals make to the country. And that's the sticky situation. If going after the illegals was going to cause the country to flat out crash, I could see where large-scale amnesty would be debateable. The argument was that the United States needs the illegal workforce a lot more than the illegal workforce needs us, so they were going to monkeywrench operations to stick it to us. Oh they dressed it up nicely, but that's the fundamental underlying threat to any sort of walkout: You don't appreciate us and the irritation of not having us is greater than the irritation you'd have by appeasing us.

Unfortunately, it was nowhere near as effective as other walkouts, in large part because they DO need us more than we need them. Even if you go with estimates as high as 12million illegals, assume MAYBE a third of those are kids still in school, leaving us with 8million work-age illegals, the 300,000 who actually showed up at the rallies or walked out or didn't buy stuff that day didn't really have an effect. The bluff was called. Maybe if it had lasted more than a few days it would have been noticeable but it was really a joke. But then if the illegals were rankling us that much it would have hurt them far more than it helped them.

And nowhere did we see the counterargument. Not the issue over the workforce, but rather the issue of the draw. Oh sure the illegal workforce gets certain jobs done (often by undercutting legal and/or legitimate workers), but they also don't contribute anything BUT that work to the system. That's why a lot of illegals are migrant in the first place: if you set down roots you suddenly have to pay into the system in some form or another.

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Peanut butter ass Shaq Blindy. booooze lime pole over bench lick:
So legal aliens caused 9/11, should we stop that program too?

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This is probably the stupidest open boarders argument anybody has ever made.

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If Maradon! was a glacier, they'd be a fast one:
This is probably the stupidest open boarders argument anybody has ever made.

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I'm just pointing out the retarded logic.

Thanks!

As for me, I think that any illegal that doesn't want to become legal, papered and numbered, with a green card and a stamp on his hand saying "Yes I can work here".. then his happy ass should get shipped home in a banana box. Hopefully with a dangerous viper included in it. Less paperwork that way.

Gives us something to do with the banana boxes too.