Maybe I'm just thinking this is really bad when it's not.
Apparently it breaks down like this
1 SO or 2 SOs=no change
3 SOs= slight decrease in SO effectiveness
4 SOs or more=Large decrease in SO effectiveness
And yes this effects DOs as well. Alt-F4 fucked around with this message on 10-09-2005 at 10:59 AM.
"Don't want to sound like a fanboy, but I am with you. I'll buy it for sure, it's just a matter of for how long I will be playing it..."
- Silvast, Battle.net forums
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Talonus had this to say about Robocop:
Nope, it looks like an across the board nerf of everything, though it especially nerfs abilities that can't take advantage of multiple enhancements (namely and heal defense abilities). Go go nerf approach to balancing!
Yep. Severe nerf for my blaster who has 5+ dam SO's in all his powers. Previously I could twoshot (Slug/burst, or oneshot with sniper rifle) white minions and obliterate a group of yellow minions with full auto. Now I'll have to waste powers on something equivalent to 20 fucking damage.
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Tyewa Dawnsister had this to say about Captain Planet:
Bye bye perma hasten.
Greetings,
You forgot to say "Greetings,".
This also nerfs stamina, too. 
The part that gets me is that they "Had this in mind" for "all content patches since March 2005".
what the crap. The final post on the first page says it all, really.
you nerf (de-enhance) an enhancement. So now it's just colorful lights you throw around.
congratulations. You've been turned, collectively, into Jubilee.
sigpic courtesy of This Guy, original modified by me
"Don't want to sound like a fanboy, but I am with you. I'll buy it for sure, it's just a matter of for how long I will be playing it..."
- Silvast, Battle.net forums
..and if you only have 2 SOs, and 4 normals, will you still see the reduction?
Theoretically you shouldnt, because you've not gone over the 2 SO limit... but I'm sure they'll decide to nerf it because "you've gone over our arbitrarily decided 'maximum enhancement' level"...
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And the Replyobots combined to form Cavalier-, who roared:
Hrmm.. does that mean if you have 2 SOs and 2 DOs that that counts as 4? or only 2 of each?..and if you only have 2 SOs, and 4 normals, will you still see the reduction?
Theoretically you shouldnt, because you've not gone over the 2 SO limit... but I'm sure they'll decide to nerf it because "you've gone over our arbitrarily decided 'maximum enhancement' level"...
It's going to go by percentages, not whether it's DOs or SOs... heck, even combining enhancements can cause a drop off if it crosses one of their pet thresholds.
I really don't think this change is necessary, and I hope they change their minds - it really is a straight-out-everybody-gets-it nerf.
Someone at Cryptic must have been subverted by the Vision...
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We were all impressed when Mightion Defensor wrote:
Someone at Cryptic must have been subverted by the Vision...
As I understand it, that would be Statesman. Things get nerfed because he has his own Vision on how the game should be played and what players should accomplish. As should be expected, players don't do what developers expect of them. Most of the game's nerfs are a result of players diverging from his Vision.
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Ja'Deth Issar Ka'bael said this about your mom:
...so...you nerf (de-enhance) an enhancement. So now it's just colorful lights you throw around.
congratulations. You've been turned, collectively, into Jubilee.
Marvel will love them this time.... They wont even have to falsely create toons to win the next court case.
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Verily, Lashanna doth proclaim:
Tanks tanking an entire invincible mission's worth of monsters, yay, etc.
Maybe before I4 and I5 came live... but in I5 (particularly), Tankers (and Scrappers to a lesser extent) had their defensive powers nerfed to the shit... I know my Tanker chars had *GREAT* difficulty in tanking more than 4 white mobs at any single time after I5.
If the players are outperforming what the devs intended, they need to increase the abilities of the enemies, not decrease the effectiveness of the heroes.
Fuck, when I quit, I'd gone from having Silverwing being a chick who could dodge bullets to a souped up gymnast with a switchblade.
When the game starts feeling heroic again, I'll go back. Not before.
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Mooj had this to say about the Spice Girls:
I said it before, I'll say it again. This shit is rediculous.If the players are outperforming what the devs intended, they need to increase the abilities of the enemies, not decrease the effectiveness of the heroes.
Fuck, when I quit, I'd gone from having Silverwing being a chick who could dodge bullets to a souped up gymnast with a switchblade.
When the game starts feeling heroic again, I'll go back. Not before.
QTF.
Doing a quick number crunch, my scrappers damage went from being 200+ damage a kick, to a bit over 120+. I had healing of 25HP a tick, that went down to less then 15.
My empathy defender went from healing 300 to less than 200, and my rez recharges in about a minute and a half, instead of the usual 45 seconds.
My fire tank will be taking another hit. Defense resistance drops to less than 70%, and defense buffs less than 45%, and that's with all 6 slots.
I just cancelled my subscription, this shit is stupid. I also cancelled my preorder on CoV, because these nerfs will also carry over.
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Alt-F4 painfully thought these words up:
I also cancelled my preorder on CoV, because these nerfs will also carry over.
It's even worse in CoV... much, much, much worse.... but the NDA prevents me from saying anything more.
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Abbikat had this to say about Duck Tales:
It's even worse in CoV... much, much, much worse.... but the NDA prevents me from saying anything more.
I'm in CoV, and that's one of the reasons I quit.
Wow, I went to work for 6 hours and already I've seen over 100 pages of posts since I left. Alt-F4 fucked around with this message on 10-09-2005 at 10:07 PM.
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Mooj had this to say about Matthew Broderick:
If the players are outperforming what the devs intended, they need to increase the abilities of the enemies, not decrease the effectiveness of the heroes.
The problem with that is, not all heroes are capable of the same things.
Something with enough HP to give a ticked-out blaster a fight takes forever for a normal controler to kill. Something more the controler's speed won't make the blaster pause his stride as he wades through. The same, more or less, can be said of defenses.
This is taking the higher end of the power range down some. They needed to do that. However, they're doing it in the wrong way, and spreading out some bad nerfs that hurt people that don't need to be nerfed.
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Palador ChibiDragon had this to say about Captain Planet:
The problem with that is, not all heroes are capable of the same things.Something with enough HP to give a ticked-out blaster a fight takes forever for a normal controler to kill. Something more the controler's speed won't make the blaster pause his stride as he wades through. The same, more or less, can be said of defenses.
This is taking the higher end of the power range down some. They needed to do that. However, they're doing it in the wrong way, and spreading out some bad nerfs that hurt people that don't need to be nerfed.
Yeah, the fact that the same nerfs hurt that controller's measly damage output in the same way, sorta keeps the gap the same.
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Palador ChibiDragon had this to say about Knight Rider:
The problem with that is, not all heroes are capable of the same things.Something with enough HP to give a ticked-out blaster a fight takes forever for a normal controler to kill. Something more the controler's speed won't make the blaster pause his stride as he wades through. The same, more or less, can be said of defenses.
This is taking the higher end of the power range down some. They needed to do that. However, they're doing it in the wrong way, and spreading out some bad nerfs that hurt people that don't need to be nerfed.
Who said anything about increasing hitpoints? A simple AI overhaul and some varied abilities would do wonders for a villain's threat potential. As is, all enemies will chase you unless they're lured into an AoE DoT, and all enemies of every sort deal smashing and or lethal damage. All villains turn powers off and on randomly, and all villains attempt to close to melee range unless they don't have a melee attack, in which case they do NOT attempt to run out of melee range when the distance is closed.
It's lazy development, and they haven't changed the recipe since release. In that entire time, I can only remember one major change to enemy tactics, and that was the CoT ____ Thorn Caster nerf. Everything else has been player nerfs.
EDIT: Actually, now that I think about it, at Issue 3 they tried to increase enemy HP to make encounters more challenging, and they rolled it back because they pissed everyone off. Mooj fucked around with this message on 10-10-2005 at 01:30 AM.
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We were all impressed when Mooj wrote:
EDIT: Actually, now that I think about it, at Issue 3 they tried to increase enemy HP to make encounters more challenging, and they rolled it back because they pissed everyone off.
Yep. They couldn't raise the HP, so they're nerfing the players. Two sides to a bad coin.
As for the nerfs hurting controler damage: Most controlers are not slotted up for damage as much as they are for effect. (At least, that's been my experience.) So, they won't get hit in the damage area as much. But they will get hit. In the face, with an axe, because they can't hold things as well/long now.
"Don't want to sound like a fanboy, but I am with you. I'll buy it for sure, it's just a matter of for how long I will be playing it..."
- Silvast, Battle.net forums
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Fazum'Zen Fastfist had this to say about Pirotess:
Does anyone seriously prefer the "challenge" of a chance victory over just kicking the shit out of the bad dudes like a super hero should? Seriously, what kind of logic is this?
I don't even mind close fights so long as I still feel like a badass. I'd rather be insanely powerful and fighting insanely powerful villains at high level rather than a gimp taking on third-string possessed scientists and walking mushrooms.
Aury fucked around with this message on 10-10-2005 at 07:31 AM.
Anyway, I just wonder how big a decrease in effectivness this equates to. 6 even-level SO damage enhancements meant a ~200% increase in damage, so what is it now? 150%? Even less? JooJooFlop fucked around with this message on 10-10-2005 at 10:20 PM.
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JooJooFlop thought this was the Ricky Martin Fan Club Forum and wrote:
Fuck, and I just bought a bunch of Lv.30 SO enhancements. 6 for Ball Lightning and 3 for Voltaic Sentinel.Anyway, I just wonder how big a decrease in effectivness this equates to. 6 even-level SO damage enhancements meant a ~200% increase in damage, so what is it now? 150%? Even less?
From what we are able to figure out six SOs constitues about 110% bonus instead of the 200%
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So quoth JooJooFlop:
Ouch, that really fucks up devices blasters. The best reason to take it is Targeting Drone so you can devote all of your offensive power slots to damage.
Oh no, they don't want that, they want you to put 2 damage, an accuracy, a recharge, an end reducer, and a endurance drain. That's why it's call diversity.
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JooJooFlop enlisted the help of an infinite number of monkeys to write:
If I wanted to waste slots on secondary effects for my offensive powers I'd play a defender.
I liked my defender, until I found out his heals were gonna suck also. Friggin 6 SO heals, all level 53. Oh one thing though, you can combine HOs now.
If for instance, you are a blaster and can no longer put 6 SO's in damage. You can still put 2 in ACC, 2 in recharge, 2 in damage and overall be only slightly less effective.
However, if you mostly use powers that only really take one thing (say RES in tanker shields) you don't have any option but to watch your DEF get raped hardcore.
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DarkDragoon wrote this then went back to looking for porn:
Actually, while this nerf does indeed hit everybody badly, it doesn't hurt them equally at all.If for instance, you are a blaster and can no longer put 6 SO's in damage. You can still put 2 in ACC, 2 in recharge, 2 in damage and overall be only slightly less effective.
However, if you mostly use powers that only really take one thing (say RES in tanker shields) you don't have any option but to watch your DEF get raped hardcore.
But I don't wanna slot anything but damage. It's why I took Devices as a secondary set. This hits my offensive abilities hard and since that's pretty much my only job...
Probably won't pick up CoV now unless they make some major changes to this system. It makes sense for most powers, but defensive powers pretty much ONLY take resist/defense (SR's passives comes to mind) only SOME of them even *take* endurance reduction.
As if tankers weren't fragile enough after I5 already. Sheesh.
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JooJooFlop had this to say about dark elf butts:
But I don't wanna slot anything but damage. It's why I took Devices as a secondary set. This hits my offensive abilities hard and since that's pretty much my only job...
Well, look at it this way, now you can slot 2 damage, 2 recharge, and 2 endurance reduction (since perma-hasten won't be possible, and stamina will be less effective)... and you'll probably come out about the same over time. I don't feel like busting out the math this early to compare. Alpha strikes won't work nearly as well... toggle powers (especially of a defensive nature) are the ones hit hardest by this.
