"I think wisdom is gained through experience, and is entirely separate from knowledge and intelligence." The jornal post that started the debate.

Which side do you take?
The debate:

Jungian Logos - 2003-05-18 18:07:45
How could you gain wisdom without intelligence and knowledge?
Rammy is a primitive. Rammy sees a fire. Rammy doesn't know what fire is at this point. Rammy has never seen one. Rammy puts her hand in the fire. Rammy gets burned. Rammy yelps. Rammy pulls her hand away.
Now factor in intelligence, knowledge, and wisdom to this experience. 1. Through Rammy's intelligence she should gain knowledge and wisdom. 2. Rammy gains the knowledge that fire burns flesh. 3. Hopefully Rammy gains the wisdom to not put her hand in the fire again.
Is personal experience required for wisdom?
Birdy is watching Rammy. Birdy sees the results of Rammy's experience with the fire. Birdy can choose to put her hand in the fire or heed what happened to Rammy. She reasons thhrough her intelligance that fire burns flesh, from the knowledge observed by Rammy's actions. Birdy has learned the wisdom to make a sound judgement not to put her hand in the fire.
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Collie - 2003-05-18 20:00:22
Wisdom doesn't come from knowing not to stick your hand in the fire. Wisdom is gained when one learns to respect that fire, knowing that it can hurt- and cleanse.
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Jungian Logos - 2003-05-18 20:37:11
That made no sense. Wisdom doesn't come from knowing not to stick your hand in the fire? It comes from knowing that it can hurt? I mock you. The scenario presented stated the people had no previous knowledge of fire. If they didn't know what fire was, how could they know it would hurt? It was by sticking the hand in the fire it came to be known it CAN hurt. The wisdom to not stick the hand in the fire, came from the knowledge of what happens.
Just as the second scenario states. It wasn't necessary for the 2nd person to have to put their hand in the fire to learn that knowledge. They could observe or be taught from the 1st person. The wisdom to not put your hand in a fire came from the knowledge that it can hurt.
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Roxanne - 2003-05-19 08:01:27
I disagree with you J.L. You can have knowledge, but it is meaningless without experience. Ask any parent of a two year old how well telling a child, really of any age, what will happen. It is rarely heeded without some taste of experience to back up that knowledge. So in that case Collie's statement did make sense, and I am angry that you chose to use 'that made no sense'. Be respectful to those that leave comments, please. To further back up my explanation, without the experience that fire is hot, somewhere, somewhen, there is nothing that prevents any one person from sticking their hand in the first. Thus experience, and wisdom, is separate from knowledge and intelligence.
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Jungian Logos - 2003-05-19 14:13:30
Because it didn't make sense and neither do you! Wisdom can't be seperate from knowledge and intelligence. You need intelligence to process knowledge. You need knowledge in order to learn something. Wisdom comes from learning.
"To further back up my explanation, without the experience that fire is hot, somewhere, somewhen, there is nothing that prevents any one person from sticking their hand in the first. Thus experience, and wisdom, is separate from knowledge and intelligence."
Sorry. If you want to talk about philosophy, then know what the hell you are talking about. No one discounted experience. Knowledge comes from experience. Burning your hand in the fire...IS knowledge from experience. And without intelligence you wouldn't be able to process the information.
No, you don't need direct experience to gain wisdom. I've never held a fully loaded gun to my head and pulled the trigger. Does that mean I don't have have wisdom to not put a gun to my head and pull the trigger?
I'm pretty sure sticking a rattle snake in a sack, shaking it to hell, and swinging it above my head really fast, then putting the snake down your pants would be unwise. Rammy, would you put that snake down your pants? Hmmm

As distinct from experience how?

When one debates topics like this, much of the early conversation must go to defining the terms.