- The rebel fleet, outnumbered and out gunned, managed to take down the super star destroyer and death star, leaving a never ending sea of normal star destroyers unharmed.
- ...
- The rebels celebrate on Endor.
What happened to the star destroyer fleet? If it fought the rebel fleet, wouldn't it destroy the rebels? If the rebels fled, how come they celebrated on Endor? Why didn't the Imperial fleet bombard the planet reducing it to ash and glass? I mean, it's a rebel stronghold. If it wasn't a stronghold and the empire still had people on the planet, why didn't they launch a rescue attempt with overwhelming force?
I was under the impression that the Rebel Alliance can not withstand the might of the Imperial fleet on a head on attack. If this is the case,
it would behoove the Imperial fleet to press on despite the losses because this is a rare chance to eliminate the enemy.
All I can think of is that the surviving leader of the Imperial fleet chose to let the rebels live, though they never explained why. Was there no clear chain of command? Did the next in line not want to take over where the Emperor left off?
What obvious bit of info did I miss?
edit: "Stop overanalyzing and enjoy the movie" is a sufficient answer too... Ghost of Forums Past fucked around with this message on 02-01-2010 at 08:54 PM.
GO GO WOOKIEEPEDIA
In 4 ABY, Pellaeon was present at the Battle of Endor. Pellaeon's commanding officer, likely an admiral, was second-in-command of the battle fleet and Chimaera was the designated command ship in the absence of Executor. Intended to be the trap that would destroy the rebellious Alliance to Restore the Republic, the battle was anything but successful. The Alliance Fleet proved surprisingly difficult to defeat, destroying the flagship Executor. Pellaeon watched, sickened, as the massive Star Dreadnought plunged into the Death Star, taking thousands of the Fleet's most promising officers with it.
When the Death Star itself was destroyed and Palpatine killed, the fleet was thrown into chaos. With the loss of Grand Admiral Nial Declann's battle meditation, a massive communications disruption due to the fact that communications had been routed through the Death Star's communications node, and the general confusion of battle, the Imperial fleet's performance was disorganized and sloppy. The Rebel fleet began making significant inroads, and even the return of Grand Admiral Osvald Teshik could not hold back the Rebels.
Pellaeon's commanding officer was killed in the battle when Rebel force made a concerted attack on the Chimaera and Pellaeon took command of the ship. With the situation desperate and chaotic, Pellaeon decided that the situation was untenable. In the chaos, the rest of the fleet may not even have known that Pellaeon's commander was killed; with the Chimaera as the designated command ship, Pellaeon was the one to relay the order to retreat to Annaj, the nearest sector capital. Teshik, meanwhile, held out in a doomed rearguard action.
ALSO
Pellaeon: "The Emperor was not directing the battle. Not in any way. I was there, AdmiralI know."
Thrawn: "Yes, Captain, you were there. And it's time you gave up your blindfold and faced the truth, no matter how bitter you find it. You had no real fighting spirit of your own anymorenone of you in the Imperial Fleet did. It was the Emperor's will that drove you; the Emperor's mind that provided you with strength and resolve and efficiency. You were as dependent on that presence as if you were all borg-implanted into a combat computer."
Pellaeon: "That's not true. It can't be. We fought on after his death."
Thrawn: "Yes. You fought on. Like cadets."
[/nerd]
From a common sense standpoint, the leadership of the Imperial Navy is criminally incompetent to the point where it may be reasonable to try them for treason.
Techno-babble aside, their fleet depends on multiple factors to maintain its fighting strength. These critical elements have no redundancy. What's worse is that these critical elements are entirely dependent upon the survivability of unique front line equipment. This unique front line equipment is intentionally placed in harms way (remember, this is an ambush). Not only has it been placed in harms way, it was placed in harms way against an opponent that was shown to be capable of destroying it in a similar situation.
At the head of the Imperial fleet lies the Emperor. He has been shown to have a tactical genius that is almost completely unsurpassed. This should rule out the incompetence needed to put the future of the Empire in such danger, especially when his past actions show that he should be clever enough to think of multiple contingencies.
If the Empire's actions require its leadership to be criminally incompetent and the leader is by definition a tactical and strategic genius, where does that lead us? There is one obvious conclusion - the Emperor is a dick.
He must be fully aware that the Empire will fall into chaos should he and the Death Star fall, and at the same time must not care. This shows that he doesn't care about the Empire at all - just himself. This insane narcissism should actually be expected, as the first three movies would show. He tore the Empire and Republic apart to gain power. He doesn't care about his own people or the fate of the Empire if he's not a part of it.
Simply put, the battle of Endor was lost because the Emperor's a dick. Ghost of Forums Past fucked around with this message on 02-02-2010 at 06:30 AM.
quote:
shut up you're fat's fortune cookie read:
I'm gonna beat you both up
And you've got the weight advantage too, right?
quote:
shut up you're fat said:
I'm gonna beat you both up
no u
Fun Fact: People at conventions ask me if I'm hired staff because I'm buff and look nothing like the stereotypical nerd. Unlike 99% of the people around me at such events.
I LIKE LASERS.
quote:
We were all impressed when Mortious wrote:
no uFun Fact: People at conventions ask me if I'm hired staff because I'm buff and look nothing like the stereotypical nerd. Unlike 99% of the people around me at such events.
I LIKE LASERS.
I look like a geek but no one seems to care around here or act negatively to it.
As for conventions, I know this sounds strange, but this "geek" thing is one of the things that I feel weird about with ConnectiCon. It was built for the nerds, but the "cool kids" are now coming in their stead. I hope that we aren't alienating our original target audience.
Don't get me wrong, I'm happy to get people who shower and are socially competent, but I don't want to make geeks feel unwelcome at a geek convention. Ghost of Forums Past fucked around with this message on 02-02-2010 at 10:56 AM.
quote:
And I was all like 'Oh yeah?' and nem-x was all like:
I thought battle meditation was just some dumb thing for a premise for kotor
Battle Meditation is an entirely Expanded Universe concept for which we have Timothy Zahn to thank, not George Lucas. It does predate KOTOR by over a decade, but conceptually the Empire's fleet fell apart for the same reason the villain's castle or mountain stronghold begins to collapse at the end of old bad fantasy films.
quote:
The logic train ran off the tracks when Blindy said:
Real answer: Because Episode 6 sucked almost as hard as episode 1.
That isn't fair (or close) at all.
The only truly bad part of RotJ is the Ewoks, and while they have a good chunk of screen time, their importance in the scheme of things is almost nill.
Yet on the other hand, Phantom Menace blunders around shitting on established characters and history in almost every scene. The only redeeming parts are Qui-Gonn and Maul, even Ewan McGregor wasn't yet in top form as Obi-Wan.
--Satan, quoted by John Milton
quote:
Mortious said this about your mom:
no uFun Fact: People at conventions ask me if I'm hired staff because I'm buff and look nothing like the stereotypical nerd. Unlike 99% of the people around me at such events.
I LIKE LASERS.
Me and you are fighting in the parking lot.
Let's go.
quote:
ACES! Another post by Bajah:
I read a lot of the EU books. Until they mentioned the planet Neilgaiman.
Say that isn't true.
http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Neelgaimon
All right, I spelled it like his actual name before, I forgot the author purposely misspelled it.
Children of the Jedi and The Crystal Star are the two books no one wants to acknowledge ever existed.
quote:
If I had a nickle for every time Greenlit said:
That isn't fair (or close) at all.The only truly bad part of RotJ is the Ewoks, and while they have a good chunk of screen time, their importance in the scheme of things is almost nill.
Yet on the other hand, Phantom Menace blunders around shitting on established characters and history in almost every scene. The only redeeming parts are Qui-Gonn and Maul, even Ewan McGregor wasn't yet in top form as Obi-Wan.
I think that if you watch episode 6 and then episode 1 you'll find more similarities than differences.
quote:
Bloodsage had this to say about Tron:
Wait, what? Borg? Star Wars?
Seconding this.
quote:
Blindy. says ta-ma-to, I say To-ma-to:
I think that if you watch episode 6 and then episode 1 you'll find more similarities than differences.
Let me elaborate on this.
1) Bad guys only lose because of criminally terrible leadership, underestimation of capabilities of opposition.
- PM "Hey we need the princess to sign this treaty. We could keep her right here with us until she does so, but let's send her off to a camp with 6 retarded guards instead."
- RJ "Hey we've got the rebel fleet trapped and massively outnumbered. We could bring our blockade in and destroy them easily, but let's just leave them out there while they attack the death star with an exposed power core."
- PM "The enemy is approaching us, let's leave our defensive positions and go meet them in the middle of a giant freaking field so that our forces are split and we can't protect our leadership or the rebel objectives properly."
- RJ "The rebels have a small force on our planet near the shield generator. We know exactly where they are and exactly why they are here, but let's not simply kill them and send a false signal to the rebels so that they jump in to a death trap, let's let them almost succeed in destroying their objective before capturing them."
2) Stupid, stupid, stupid and overly complex climax that takes place in many different environments for no really good reason.
- PM "Let's have one guy fight the Jedi in the power station. Don't send any backup."
- RJ "Let's have one guy fight the Jedi in the reactor core. Don't send any backup."
- PM "There's a small task force trying to capture our leadership and force us to surrender."
- RJ "There's a small task force trying to blow up our shield generator and make us vulenrable"
- PM "We'll mop up the indigenous people with an overwhelming force."
- RJ "We'll mop up the indigenous people with an overwhelming force."
- PM "Those indigenous people with primative technology are destroying our entire army!"
- RJ "Those indigenous people with primative technology are destroying our entire army!"
- PM "It's absolutely vital that we protect the control ship. We'll warp all our other ships away and engage the enemy fighters in one on one combat. Never mind that a single fighter just needs to fly into the ship and blow up our reactor."
- RJ "It's absolutely vital that we protect the 2nd deathstar. We'll put all our other ships at blockade distance and engage the enemy fighters in one on one combat. Never mind that a single fighter just needs to fly into the deathstar and blow up our reactor."
I could go on.
The biggest problem with Phantom Menance is the storytelling itself.
Of course that doesn't even touch on the flimsy premise. All the events of the film are a huge, convoluted plot by Darth Sidious to install himself as the Chancellor of the Senate... which the audience knows he does, rendering the heroes' victory on Naboo rather hollow. And don't even get me started on Attack of the Clones.
Finally, yeah, Jar-Jar was annoying... wait, Padme sets of the spellchecker, but not Jar-Jar? Huh. Anyway, he was annoying, but more importantly, he was unnecessary. Star Wars already had a hapless, mildly irritating comic foil in C-3P0. Who thought it was a good idea to supplant him with Jar-Jar?
oh and i guess the dialogue and acting left something to be desired BUT ANYWAY
But hell, the movie came out over 10 years ago (god I feel old), so there's nothing to be done about it now.
Sigpic shamelessly stolen from Kate Beaton.
quote:
Mortious had this to say about John Romero:
The biggest problem with Phantom Menace is George Lucas.
Also this.
Sigpic shamelessly stolen from Kate Beaton.
Obviously, team heroes wants to rescue Han Solo from Jabba. So what do they do?
1 - Send Lando in to be a guy on the inside. (WHY? He doesn't fucking do anything to benefit the other people other than fight in the act 1 close. And why doesn't he just sneak over and let Han out? )
2 - Send Leia in to be another guy on the inside, let Han out of carbonite. Have her take Chewie as a prisoner to get in good graces with Jabba. (WHY?!? Lando is already undercover! Why would you put two additional resources in harms way and get Chewie captured? THIS MAKES NO SENSE.)
3 - Send the droids to negotiate for Han/deliver warning from Luke/have Luke's light saber so that he can get it out if he needs it. (FOR THE LOVE OF GOD, WHY!? No one is going to succeed in taking Luke's light saber from him. And if they decide to just shoot him, GUESS WHO'S DEFENSELESS.)
4 - Send Luke (sans saber) to force Jabba to release Han. Oh yeah, that's a great fucking idea. Let's send in our best fighter without a weapon, because that will make him a huge threat.
5 - Let everyone get captured by Jabba's militia, let everyone almost get executed, have R2 shoot Luke's weapon over to him (hope that R2 gets taken on the land barge as a drink server? What if Jabba didn't do that? He obviously already has enough servants.)
It's at least as convoluted as PM's stupid shit. The whole plot makes absolutely no sense.
All they should have fucking done is have Luke storm the place, by himself, kill everyone (which he ends up doing anyway), free Han, and be on their way. Blindy fucked around with this message on 02-08-2010 at 01:03 PM.
Let's say Leia actually managed to get Han unfrozen and out. Now you've got Lando, Chewie, R2D2, C3PO and Luke's Light Saber in Jabba's palace. Lando could probably just leave whenever he wanted, but R2D2, Luke's Saber, C3PO, and Chewie would be under watch from his guards and not permitted to leave. You'd have to send YET ANOTHER rescue to get them out. THIS IS A STUPID PLAN.
Or let's say that Luke actually manages to perform his Jedi Mind Trick on Jabba and get him to release Han, Chewie, Leia, R2D2 and C3PO. WHY WOULD YOU PUT THESE PEOPLE IN HARMS WAY IN THE FIRST PLACE?!? They add absolutely nothing to the plan. They add absolutely no success factor. They add no redundancy or fail safe. They should not even be there.
This is the same retarded writing that made PM horrible. It's a horrible, horrible movie, and the only reason no one noticed is that they gave it a free pass after the awesomeness that was ESB. Blindy fucked around with this message on 02-08-2010 at 01:10 PM.
quote:
Quoth Blindy:
All they should have fucking done is have Luke storm the place, by himself, kill everyone (which he ends up doing anyway), free Han, and be on their way.
But then we wouldn't get to see Leia in the harem-girl outfit. You fail.
--Satan, quoted by John Milton
quote:
This one time, at band camp, Bloodsage said:
But then we wouldn't get to see Leia in the harem-girl outfit. You fail.
Fuck. Yep. My bad. Flawless script. 
