Personally, I think anyone who is caught here illegally should be sent out of the country post-haste. I do not agree with the anchor baby laws. I feel for the families who are already here with citizen children, but just because they jumped through a legal loophole, does that mean that we should turn a blind eye?
I dont even get all up in arms over the 'they're stealing American jobs' issue. Its the principle of the thing: If people come in illegally, regardless of their country of origin be it Mexico or Ireland, there's already a precedent of lawbreaking. Handing citizenship to illegals over those who are already in the system working to become legal the correct way is like rewarding a toddler for a tantrum. Get away with breaking one rule, and you get the idea that you can break others without fear of reprimand.
Here's an article (though its cnn.com) that kinda outlines the immigration bill that Bush keeps trying to shove down our throats.
Thats the height of my morning 
That being said, something needs to happen to regulate everything. Undocumented workers fill an undeniable labor market, but lack of legal standing not only drains health care but puts undocumented workers at high risk of exploitation.
What's the best answer? I have no idea. There really is no guaranteed fix.
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Demos said this about your mom:
There are so many that its really rather impractical to deport all undocumented immigrants. I think the latest statistic was that, at the current rate of deportation, it would take 65 years. And that's probably not taking into account new illegal immigrants crossing in the meantime.That being said, something needs to happen to regulate everything. Undocumented workers fill an undeniable labor market, but lack of legal standing not only drains health care but puts undocumented workers at high risk of exploitation.
What's the best answer? I have no idea. There really is no guaranteed fix.
So, because enforcement seems impractical, the law should not be upheld and those who break should be rewarded with protection? I don't get it.
It is by caffeine alone I set my mind in motion. It is by the beans of Java the thoughts aquire speed, the teeth acquire stains, the stains become a warning. It is by caffeine alone I set my mind in motion.
They would either have to change the US citizenship system (which recognizes jus soli) or make it legal to deport these American citizens. (the children) I imagine deporting the parents and putting the kid in foster care wouldn't work well, either.
How do immigrants us health care funds? I have no knowledge on this part of the issue.
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OrangeBrand was naked while typing this:
If you live in a border state like I do, (Texas) this is a big issue.
I always hear the same things about "taking jobs" and what not and am not debating this. What I don't understand is the health care issue.How do immigrants us health care funds? I have no knowledge on this part of the issue.
The anchor baby is eligible for welfare and associated state-provided benefits.
It is by caffeine alone I set my mind in motion. It is by the beans of Java the thoughts aquire speed, the teeth acquire stains, the stains become a warning. It is by caffeine alone I set my mind in motion.
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OrangeBrand enlisted the help of an infinite number of monkeys to write:
If you live in a border state like I do, (Texas) this is a big issue.
I always hear the same things about "taking jobs" and what not and am not debating this. What I don't understand is the health care issue.How do immigrants us health care funds? I have no knowledge on this part of the issue.
Its because a hospital cannot morally or (I believe) legally turn someone away if they are in need.
I've heard of pregnant illegals who get placed on government housing lists because of the anchor baby law. They are referred by the open womens clinics who take low income cases.
What is you outlook on illegals in the Military? When I was in the Marines, there was alot of people from foriegn countries, not just Mexico.
Would making it mandatory for illegals to serve in the military help anything?
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Bent over the coffee table, OrangeBrand squealed:
Would making it mandatory for illegals to serve in the military help anything?
It would help foreign terrorists immensely by giving them access to training, weapons, and information. Other than that, no.
--Satan, quoted by John Milton
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Mightion Defensor probably says this to all the girls:
I imagine deporting the parents and putting the kid in foster care wouldn't work well, either.
Why not? That strikes me as the perfect solution.
You break US immigration law, you get sent home, you lose your kids, seems fine to me.
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Mooj had this to say about Optimus Prime:
Why not? That strikes me as the perfect solution.You break US immigration law, you get sent home, you lose your kids, seems fine to me.
There's just that pesky "human rights" thing in the way there.
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This insanity brought to you by Pvednes:
There's just that pesky "human rights" thing in the way there.
Those kids are going to be used as ammo in the great Australian war. I'd watch your mouth if I were you.
Anyway, there's no real great answer to Immigration. Mandatory service wouldn't help out, really. The closest way I can see is putting up a big wall.
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Pvednes had this to say about Jimmy Carter:
There's just that pesky "human rights" thing in the way there.
If you break the law, CPS tends to take your kids. If you've got family, the kids go there, if you don't, oh well.
How is this any different?
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Mooj had this to say about Robocop:
If you break the law, CPS tends to take your kids. If you've got family, the kids go there, if you don't, oh well.How is this any different?
The idea is that the immigrants come with their children. They didn't really make the choice.
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Mooj wrote this then went back to looking for porn:
If you break the law, CPS tends to take your kids. If you've got family, the kids go there, if you don't, oh well.How is this any different?
Before I answer, what does this mean?
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Mr. Parcelan wrote this then went back to looking for porn:
The idea is that the immigrants come with their children. They didn't really make the choice.
If the kids are illegals, deport 'em with the parents. If the kids are citizens, well that's the parents' fuck up, ain't it?
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Pvednes had this to say about pies:
Before I answer, what does this mean?
If you've got family, your kids go to the family. If not, you go into the foster system.
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Pvednes had this to say about Robocop:
Before I answer, what does this mean?
What I mean is that if your kids are taken by CPS because you've committed a crime, if you have family that can care for the children, CPS will try to place the children with those family members. If you don't have family, CPS will stick the kids with a foster family.
If the illegals have legal family, great, give the kids to those people while the parents are shipped back to whereever they're from. If they don't have legal family, then oh well, the kids go into the foster system.
Of course, it's already been covered in the thread how inconceivable it is to just deport everyone, so it's kind of a moot point. The fact remains, though, that as long as there aren't consequences for abusing the system, people will continue to abuse the system.
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Damnati had this to say about dark elf butts:
So, because enforcement seems impractical, the law should not be upheld and those who break should be rewarded with protection? I don't get it.
Reading for comprehension is a pretty basic skill; worth your time to practice. Where did I say we should condone illegal immigration? Where did I say the law should be ignored? I'm just pointing out that issues are not nearly as black-and-white as people think, and there are issues of logistics and practicality that need to be evaluated and decided on before any action such as mass deportation becomes possible.
Indignation won't magically make it possible to deport 12 million people.
The idea of child protection agencies taking kids and suchlike is supposedly about what's best for the children.
However, generally speaking--children are best off in their family. The family unit is a protected institution, regardless of borders.
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Demos had this to say about dark elf butts:
Indignation won't magically make it possible to deport 12 million people.
would it be possible to put a bullet in the brain of 12 million people? If we can classify Illegal Immigration as a felony, we could make it punishable by death. Then propose an executive order to speed up the execution process, apply perhaps death by firing line or hanging again.
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We were all impressed when Pvednes wrote:
Ah.The idea of child protection agencies taking kids and suchlike is supposedly about what's best for the children.
However, generally speaking--children are best off in their family. The family unit is a protected institution, regardless of borders.
And when a parent uses a child as a tool for the commission of a crime, it suddenly becomes very clear that the parent generally isn't looking out for the well-being of the child.
Oops.
I still fail to see the problem here.
EDIT: And yes, I realize that it's entirely possible that the parents are doing it "For the chyyyyyldren!" It doesn't change the fact that it's illegal, it's immoral, and it's an abuse of the damn system and has been for decades. If the parents want what's best for their children, then the foster system (broken as it may be) is still the best bet. The foster system (in theory) is responsible for seeing to it that children are clothed, fed, and receiving both an education and health care. Mooj fucked around with this message on 06-25-2007 at 04:40 PM.
It is still fucking over the people who try to get in via legitimate methods, though.
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Pvednes had this to say about Matthew Broderick:
A family from Shitsbeckistan seeking a better life in America probably are thinking about what's best for their children, even if they are attempting to enter America illegally.
How many people from "Shitsbeckistan" are illegal immigrants? Really, I'd like to know. Compare that to how many people from these countries make it to the US and try to do things legally.
A vast majority of illegals are from Mexico and to a much lesser extent Cuba.
I won't be so stupid as to say that every one of them are actively looking to be a drain on the system, but as this is the course that the topic has taken, that is EXACTLY what we're discussing. Illegal women popping out a kid, and getting put into government housing, on government assistance, where they don't have to do shit except keep popping out crotch loaves.
It's a drain on American resources that could better be used elsewhere, and it needs to stop being an option for these people. You take the kids, you stick 'em in foster care, and you cut off the parents from their free money and housing, and see how many of them keep doing it.
Parcelan is right--there's not a simple solution to this kind of issue.
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Pvednes had this to say about Captain Planet:
Parcelan is right--there's not a simple solution to this kind of issue.
That much we can agree upon.
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Channeling the spirit of Sherlock Holmes, Pvednes absently fondled Watson and proclaimed:
Also, come to think of it--using legal loopholes is not a criminal act. If there is a legal loophole allowing people on say, a work visa to stay permanently if they have a child that is an American citizen, that is a flaw in the law, not criminal behaviour.It is still fucking over the people who try to get in via legitimate methods, though.
There is no such legal loophole. Even though their children may be citizens, the parents have no legal right to stay in the US.
--Satan, quoted by John Milton
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Pvednes probably says this to all the girls:
Sure, it'd probably work, but arbitrarily breaking up families is still a human rights abuse.Parcelan is right--there's not a simple solution to this kind of issue.
It's not arbitrary. Every family who broke the immigration laws but has legal resident children would lose their children to the foster system/legal residents. They broke the law, as a consequence certain bad things could happen. They know they are breaking the law, otherwise they would not pay people to smuggle them in.
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And the Replyobots combined to form Bloodsage, who roared:
There is no such legal loophole. Even though their children may be citizens, the parents have no legal right to stay in the US.
Yes, but can you imagine the headlines if INS did deport the parents while putting the kid in foster care? That's part of the problem. No one wants those types of headlines.
If the parents aren't citizens, why is the child? Was there a purpose to this law at some point? Personally, I think the solution for the long term would be to get rid of this apparently absurd law and cut off illegal immigrants from government support.
It is by caffeine alone I set my mind in motion. It is by the beans of Java the thoughts aquire speed, the teeth acquire stains, the stains become a warning. It is by caffeine alone I set my mind in motion.
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Bloodsage had this to say about Cuba:
There is no such legal loophole. Even though their children may be citizens, the parents have no legal right to stay in the US.
I was under the impression it was used as leverage towards permanent residency, in a similar vein to mail-order marriages.
Not so?
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From the book of OrangeBrand, chapter 3, verse 16:
Ok. Got it.
That was one of the only things I didn't understand.What is you outlook on illegals in the Military? When I was in the Marines, there was alot of people from foriegn countries, not just Mexico.
Would making it mandatory for illegals to serve in the military help anything?
Those who are in the military are not illegals. They are legal aliens using one of the various methods that is a path to citizenship.
Being in the military kinda speeds up the wait period, but you still have to jump through all the red tape that citizens do just to get in.
If you are found to be an illegal alien and have been found guilty of some other crime, you are only deported after you spend a commensurate hard labor sentence building our new wall. Texas and southern california jails are overflowing with illegals, this would be a great source of manpower.
"But it's NOT POSSIBLE to track down six hundred thousand people and deport them all!"
I love when people make this argument, it's just so flawed in so many ways. First of all, it's not possible to arrest every rapist either, does that mean we should legalize rape, or give up on enforcing rape laws?
Second, if we can't find all these illegal aliens to deport them, what the hell makes you think we'll be able to find them to register in some sort of guest worker program? You think they'll just VOLUNTARILY become citizens and start paying taxes?
"But what about their families!"
Their families are welcome to visit them in Mexico. If they married an American citizen, have a child by them, and the legal citizen can provide proof of parentage, then we can offer the illegal alien some sort of way to prove that they are willing to assimilate into American society and become a legal citizen. They will, at the very least, be required to learn english and keep a steady job.
However, I anticipate this to be a rare case.
Their own government has already proven itself to be vastly incompetent and corrupt. Mexico has a wealth of natural resources, from diamond mines that rival Africa to oil deposits that rival venezuela, and it's only through absolute ineptitude on a governmental scale that they're a third world country.
It'd be a little rough at first, but without Mexico's asinine property rights laws to worry about businesses should be eager enough to move in and start creating jobs, especially with the abundance of labor.
Illegal immigration will become a moot point, all Mexicans will officially be Americans, all we need to worry about is where to fit the extra star on the flag.
However, this is very, very unlikely to happen in any capacity. Maradon! fucked around with this message on 06-25-2007 at 06:54 PM.
Building a wall will do nothing either. They will just tunnel under it or find some ways to get across like Berlin (and like they are already doing now). Human nature will make then provail.
Every wall, fence, divider I can think of has failed at most times.
Hell my privacy fence here at the house can't even keep the dogs out.
I still say mandatory service in Iraq or Canada is the answer.those that live can become citizens... That is what happen to alot of Mexicans in Viet Nam.
Shooting illegals does nothing either. For that matter if we are going to kill illegals we might as well just take over what ever shit country they are coming from and make it an American protected state like Purto Rico. OrangeBrand fucked around with this message on 06-25-2007 at 07:18 PM.
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OrangeBranding:
Building a wall will do nothing either. They will just tunnel under it or find some ways to get across like Berlin (and like they are already doing now). Human nature will make then provail.
This is another argument that is wrong in so many ways that it's hard to know where to start.
For starters, there are plenty of individual cities in southern california and texas that have built their own walls and fences independently, and they've been extremely successful at reducing illegal immigration. I also remember a particularly effective wall in Germany a few decades back. So ultimately this argument is flatly untrue, walls reduce illegal immigration tremendously.
Secondly, even if they weren't half as effective as they are, they'd still be better than what we've got, which is absolutely nothing. Yeah, there'll be tunnels, coyotes smuggling people through checkpoints, people boating around the coasts, and all manner of other bullshit, but just because a wall isn't 100% doesn't mean we throw up our hands and give the fuck up.
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I still say mandatory service in Iraq or Canada is the answer.those that live can become citizens... That is what happen to alot of Mexicans in Viet Nam.
The problems with rounding up illegals and tossing them into the military are manifold.
The days when we used to give a man a gun and throw him onto the front lines to run at another guy with a gun ended about forty years ago. The military we have today is exhaustively trained, highly technological and specialized. Not everybody is right for the military, least of all the criminals that comprise the majority of the illegal population.
If we train them, then we're putting a burden on our military, not helping it. If we don't train them, then we're basically sentencing them to death, which I daresay is an even greater human rights violation than sending them back to mexico. And what do we get in the end? Conscripts, indentured servants in an otherwise volunteer army. Sorry, I'd rather be defended by people who are willing to be there.
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Section 1. All persons born or naturalized in the United States, and subject to the jurisdiction thereof, are citizens of the United States and of the State wherein they reside. No State shall make or enforce any law which shall abridge the privileges or immunities of citizens of the United States; nor shall any State deprive any person of life, liberty, or property, without due process of law; nor deny to any person within its jurisdiction the equal protection of the laws.
As long as that's there, or someone gets the stones to deport the parents but put their baby in foster case, there will be "anchor babies."
