Will post my Newegg wish list for the experts to tweak a bit later, but for now the question is this: quad core or dual core? Can save a metric assload of cash on a dual core setup. . .but I know that both Vista and Adobe take advantage of the extra cores of a quad setup. If I go with dual core, how soon before I'm forced into another upgrade?
My gaming these days is pretty limited to the 360, so I'm not looking to build a future-proof gaming rig.
Thanks muchly.
--Satan, quoted by John Milton
Under capitalism, man exploits man. Under communism, it's just the opposite. - John Kenneth Galbraith
quote:
Karnaj startled the peaceful upland Gorillas, blurting:
If you're not worried about having massive amounts of parallel processing capability, then go with a nice dual-core Intel chip. I haven't read any whitepapers on quad cores because we haven't had to upgrade anything at work recently, but they're probably too expensive right now to justify the boost in performance.
There's about a $500 difference, and from everything I've read, the performance is software-limited in that only a few programs can use multithreading.
--Satan, quoted by John Milton
Under capitalism, man exploits man. Under communism, it's just the opposite. - John Kenneth Galbraith
Will probably throw in Vista Home Premium as well. I assume I should stick with the 32-bit version as a consumer?
So, tell me where I've chosen sucky brands or where it's possible to shave a few $$ without affecting performance. Still not sure about the quad/dual core debate. . . .
--Satan, quoted by John Milton
quote:
Thermaltake Toughpower 850W PS w/ 4 +12V rails -- $259 Do I really need this PS? What wattage will suffice?
Since you're not SLI'ing two cards together, no, you don't. 550 watts will be generously sufficient. But you have to keep in mind the main connector for the mobo; most new mobos have a 24-pin main connector. Ensure that the main connector on the PSU is 24-pin (20+4 pin is also fine, I believe), or buy an adapter.
quote:
Western Digital Caviar 500GB 7200 SATA 3GB HD -- $269.99
You can get 250GB drives for less than $100 nowadays. See? In all honesty, I would suggest you consider getting one or more smaller drives, unless you plan on loading this sucker with terabyte drives in the future and absolutely need the space. I would then take the extra money and put it towards a 3rd GB of RAM.
Or, get something like this.
quote:
Creative Sound Blaster X-FI Extreme Gamer -- $89.99
I'm guessing you have a 5.1/6.1/56.1 channel setup for your computer? If so, then I assume you need this for the specific channel outputs. So, that's cool.
Now, as for quad/dual cores, real place that quad-core chips are insanely good are in webservers that do massive amounts of work in parallel. I can't justify the increased price for marginal gains. The quad-core chip is operating with a restricted FSB bandwidth (the same FSB bandwidth as a dual-core chip, meaning that each core gets to sip data through a straw, for an apt analogy), so you're going to come nowhere near doubling your performance. You're going to take a similar hit in memory latency, which, on a processor, is no good. That's to say nothing of the software restrictions. I mean, it's up to you, but as I understand it, the quad-core chips are just two dual-core chips slapped together; they're not highly integrated (which they will be in the coming months).
Under capitalism, man exploits man. Under communism, it's just the opposite. - John Kenneth Galbraith
quote:
Bloodsage had this to say about Pirotess:
I assume I should stick with the 32-bit version as a consumer?
Yes.
God only knows when 64-bit operating systems will finally make a foothold for home users, but it's not now.
Under capitalism, man exploits man. Under communism, it's just the opposite. - John Kenneth Galbraith
quote:
Greenlit's ass must be crazy:
Yes.God only knows when 64-bit operating systems will finally make a foothold for home users, but it's not now.
I'm using Vista 64 at home with a dual core athlon 64 processor and it works great.
So.... yeah.
Anyway, tweaking a few things on Karnaj's recommendations, and will post a final-er list in a bit. Will probably drop the HDD size a tad and, since I'm really only running stereo on the rig, down-cost the sound card, as well.
Still damned hard to resist the QX6700 quad core processor.
Any advantage to RAID, other than wang-waving at geek conventions? If so, how much of a pain is it to set up and administer? I'm a computer user, not a maintainer; I get no jollies from tweaking or fucking with things.
--Satan, quoted by John Milton
quote:
We all got dumber when Bloodsage said:
I thought the 64-bit systems had a real dearth of drivers, and that softer flat wouldn't run unless it was specially written for the 64-bit OS. No?Anyway, tweaking a few things on Karnaj's recommendations, and will post a final-er list in a bit. Will probably drop the HDD size a tad and, since I'm really only running stereo on the rig, down-cost the sound card, as well.
Still damned hard to resist the QX6700 quad core processor.
Any advantage to RAID, other than wang-waving at geek conventions? If so, how much of a pain is it to set up and administer? I'm a computer user, not a maintainer; I get no jollies from tweaking or fucking with things.
This is not correct- unless you're talking about the high end scientific 64 bit processors and O/S'es that run the IA-64 instruction set.
Core processors and Athlon 64's run an extended 64 bit version of the x86 processor instruction set (x64), and can natively execute 32 bit code. Windows Vista 64bit version can also natively execute 32 bit code.
So basically you get the 64 bit version of the program if you can, otherwise the 32 bit will run just fine.
The only raid you should use as a non administrator would be a raid 1- mirrored drives. This increases read speed in some applications and doesn't decrease the write speed in most applications and will mean that you have to literally have two drives die at the same time to have any data loss. This is what I run at home so that I don't lose my iTunes library and porn collection.
Non professional raid cards have somewhat of a problem with maintaining a healthy raid 0 (striping without parity), and if you have one drive hickup you lose all data. This will actually increase your failure rate (and possibility of losing data) by a factor of two, but will give you a massive increase in both read and writing speeds. I used to run this, and I lost my iTunes library and porn collection.
Raid 5 is generally not available to consumers but is the mix of the two. You need at least 3 drives to run it, and you have to lose at least two drives to lose any data. If you can find a raid 5 capable sata card in your budget then go this route. You will get performance better than raid 1 but not as good as raid 0.
Raid 1 0 is just wacky. Don't mess. It's a striped array that is then mirrored on a second set of drives, and takes 25% more hard drives to do the same thing raid 5 gives you. Blindy. fucked around with this message on 01-25-2007 at 01:44 PM.
quote:
Alidane had this to say about Jimmy Carter:
Last time I looked at it, setting up Windows to boot off of a RAID array was a bitch and a half. Is this still the case?
Not if you know ahead of time what needs doing. When originally set up my rig, I had Windows installed on striped 30 gig raptors; I made a custom Windows install disk with the RAID drivers slipstreamed and it was smooth sailing from there.
It is by caffeine alone I set my mind in motion. It is by the beans of Java the thoughts aquire speed, the teeth acquire stains, the stains become a warning. It is by caffeine alone I set my mind in motion.
Changed a few things around. Was tempted to change the mobo to something that could handle the next generation of chips with the higher FSB, but decided not to since it would also add cost in the form of needing a wifi board.
The plan is to add Vista Home Premium and a second Apple 20" LCD, since there are a few empty square inches on my desk. If Vernal doesn't want the legacy PC, I might scavenge the extra 1GB of RAM and the HDD, too.
--Satan, quoted by John Milton
--Satan, quoted by John Milton
Blindy. fucked around with this message on 01-25-2007 at 03:26 PM.
quote:
Bent over the coffee table, Blindy. squealed:
-edit oops nm-
No fair! How's that setup look? I changed the case because a lot of the comments on Newegg complained about how tight the 8800 series video cards were in a lot of cases, and that one was the only one where everyone raved about the internal space. Slightly cheaper, but lots of fans: 2 x 120mm and 2 x 80mm IIRC. That should be sufficient, right?
Oh, and assuming I have no need to individually encrypt each bit on my HDD. . .is there any advantage to Ultimate over Home Premium? Bloodsage fucked around with this message on 01-25-2007 at 03:38 PM.
--Satan, quoted by John Milton
quote:
Bloodsage's account was hax0red to write:
Let's try this on for size:
- Lian Li PC-65B Black Mid Tower Case -- $119.99
- Asus P5W DH Deluxe/WIFI-AP Mobo -- $224.99
- Intel Core 2 Duo E6700 2.66Ghz processor -- $509.99
- Corsair XMS2 2 x 1GB 240-pin DDR2 800 RAM -- $267
- Thermaltake Toughpower 650W w/ 4 +12V rails -- $149.99
- Western Digital Caviar 320GB 7200rpm SATA 3GB HDD -- $99.99
- Asus EN8800GTS GeForce 8800GTS video card -- $429.99
- HP 16X CD/DVD Burner w/ Lightscribe -- $51.99
- Linkskey 19-In-1 Card Reader/Writer -- $12.99
- Creative Sound Blaster X-FI XTremeGamer -- $89.99
- Total -- $1956.91
Changed a few things around. Was tempted to change the mobo to something that could handle the next generation of chips with the higher FSB, but decided not to since it would also add cost in the form of needing a wifi board.
The plan is to add Vista Home Premium and a second Apple 20" LCD, since there are a few empty square inches on my desk. If Vernal doesn't want the legacy PC, I might scavenge the extra 1GB of RAM and the HDD, too.
The only thing I'd add is another two gigs of RAM. It's relatively cheap and can significantly add to the lifespan of the computer.
Also, the 8800 GTS is within spec for card size and won't limit you in terms of case space. My roomate is building a system for another friend and put an 8800 into a Fragbox micro atx case. So don't limit yourself on case due to size unless you want to go with the 8800 GTX card. I like the Antec P180, but you generally have to get an Antec power supply since the case design is a little different from normal. Antec power supplies are pretty good though, so it's not a bad tradeoff.
I think that the Core 2 Duo E6600 is actually a bit better of a price/performance ratio than the E6700, but it's probably not much of a difference.
The case thing isn't a big deal, I like the Lian Li cases, but many don't have any external 3.5" bays, which I need for the card reader. Other than that, I like the idea of plenty of space, since this'll be my first complete build.
Is a floppy necessary? I read a few comments that said some mobos would only boot to floppy the first time around--seems, well, archaic. I don't even get the point of floppy drives these days.
--Satan, quoted by John Milton
What's involved in setting up the RAID? Looks like the controller is built-in on the mobo. . .but I haven't the foggiest how to enable it.
Have to read up on RAID a bit, too. Looks like it's basically a .5 for the price of 1 deal? HDDs are cheap, but the inefficiency of it offends my sense of order. On the other hand, physical back-ups--even on DVD--of my iTunes purchases would be a pain.
Hmmm. . . .
--Satan, quoted by John Milton
Raid 1 is not the cheapest way to run your computer, it's just the most reliable and safest. Blindy. fucked around with this message on 01-25-2007 at 04:30 PM.
RAID1 ARRAYS ARE NOT BACKUPS.
RAID1 arrays protect only against single-point hardware failure, and do nothing to protect your data from corruption or accidental overwrite. Make real backups for the love of christ, even if it's just periodically rsyncing important data to an external or off-site storage device.
However, since your hard-drive has by far the lowest mean-time-to-failure of any component in your system, RAID1 is pretty popular.
Floppies are dumb and you can find motherboards that'll boot off of USB these days. Not that Windows can do that yet without some major fuckery.
Drive rails are awesome and getting a case without them is silly in my opinion.
[edit: 0, 1...bleh...] Alidane fucked around with this message on 01-25-2007 at 05:21 PM.
Everything you need to know about picking a power supply
edit: Might as well link this, too
the advice in this thread is spot on so far. I'm just throwing these resources out there. Kegwen fucked around with this message on 01-25-2007 at 06:35 PM.
quote:
This insanity brought to you by Kegwen:
Also:Everything you need to know about picking a power supply
edit: Might as well link this, too
That's so insanely old that it isn't even worth looking at anymore.
quote:
Naimah stumbled drunkenly to the keyboard and typed:
That's so insanely old that it isn't even worth looking at anymore.
The general notes in the power supply guide are still pretty accurate, but unfortunately the actual hardware comparisons haven't been updated in a while.
quote:
Everyone wondered WTF when Alaan wrote:
All I can say on power supplys: FOR THE LOVE OF GOD STICK WITH A MAJOR BRAND.
Yeah definitely the biggest point, I've seen many a computers die to faulty PSUs. It's sad really, so definitely get a brand name.
quote:
The logic train ran off the tracks when Bloodsage said:
The plan is to add Vista Home Premium and a second Apple 20" LCD, since there are a few empty square inches on my desk.
Please, please, please don't waste your money on an Apple LCD. They're grossly overpriced and Dell is by far the best brand to buy from at this time.
quote:
Nobody really understood why Noxhil2 wrote:
Please, please, please don't waste your money on an Apple LCD. They're grossly overpriced and Dell is by far the best brand to buy from at this time.
They use the same panels. Alaan fucked around with this message on 01-26-2007 at 01:18 AM.
So uh, yeah. I'm loving my Dell 2007WFP. And Dell pretty frequently has deals on them.
quote:
Verily, the chocolate bunny rabbits doth run and play while Noxhil2 gently hums:
Please, please, please don't waste your money on an Apple LCD. They're grossly overpriced and Dell is by far the best brand to buy from at this time.
Already have one, so I'm not going to buy a second that doesn't match.
--Satan, quoted by John Milton
quote:
Peanut butter ass Shaq Alaan booooze lime pole over bench lick:
All I can say on power supplys: FOR THE LOVE OF GOD STICK WITH A MAJOR BRAND.
For as much as I brag about using generic ram, I will slap someone who thinks about buying a generic PSU.
If your ram fails you RMA it or get new ram. If your PSU fails, you could be saddled with anything from buying a whole new computer to buying a whole new house.
quote:
Bloodsage had this to say about Reading Rainbow:
Already have one, so I'm not going to buy a second that doesn't match.
Well, with the money you would save getting a 20in Dell you could get the QX6700 and a 8800GTX. But I guess if the aesthetics of your desk are worth an extra $400 to you, go for it.
quote:
Verily, the chocolate bunny rabbits doth run and play while Noxhil2 gently hums:
Well, with the money you would save getting a 20in Dell you could get the QX6700 and a 8800GTX. But I guess if the aesthetics of your desk are worth an extra $400 to you, go for it.
I don't know where you shop, but at Newegg, $400 isn't even the difference between the E6700 and the QX6700, much less that plus an upgrade to GTX. And, yes, the aesthetics of my desk are important to me. Mismatched monitors would bug the shit out of me.
--Satan, quoted by John Milton
quote:
Verily, the chocolate bunny rabbits doth run and play while Tarquinn gently hums:
Hey, that looks pretty much like the system I plan to build/buy next month.
Great minds!
--Satan, quoted by John Milton
$699 for 20" apple.
2x $251 for 2x 20" dell -> http://accessories.us.dell.com/sna/productdetail.aspx?c=us&l=en&s=bsd&cs=04&sku=320-51 23
So... yeah. Then you could use that $197 to buy the second hard drive or whatever. Blindy. fucked around with this message on 01-26-2007 at 09:44 AM.
It's not as if I'm unaware of the price difference, as you all seem to assume; I simply don't care. I like my Apple display, and will get another when I go dual monitor.
I appreciate the thought, but it's not really relevant to my situation.
--Satan, quoted by John Milton
