Bloodsage fucked around with this message on 10-03-2006 at 03:39 PM.
--Satan, quoted by John Milton
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x--BloodsageO-('-'Q) :
I thought Barney Frank was a Democrat?
Haha, he is! That's what makes this hilarious.
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The logic train ran off the tracks when Maradon! said:
You never see democrats like Al and Tipper Gore, Ted Kennedy, and Barbara Boxer advocating such censorship!
Oh, i agree. Both parties want to censor it. I'm tired of that too.
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Over the mountain, in between the ups and downs, I ran into Anakha who doth quote:
Oh, i agree. Both parties want to censor it. I'm tired of that too.
So pretty much your gripe in this thread has absolutely nothing to do with the republican party.
Even the Bridge to Nowhere is only supported by Democrats and RINOs with 100% leftist voting records like Pork King Ted Stevens.
Making fun of them is alright though.
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Peanut butter ass Shaq Azakias booooze lime pole over bench lick:
I just dont like politicians.Making fun of them is alright though.
Neither do I.
That is why believe in their marginalization.
Of course, I'm from Jersey, where we like our politicians good and corrupt.
Under capitalism, man exploits man. Under communism, it's just the opposite. - John Kenneth Galbraith
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Karnaj had this to say about Jimmy Carter:
Eh, I don't mind 'em.Of course, I'm from Jersey, where we like our politicians good and corrupt.
More interesting that way. Daley in Chicago has had so many people in his administration hit with Federal and local corruption charges it isn't even funny. And the odds are great that he'll be elected again. Good for the news agencies!
When I saw it was a politics thread made by Anakha, I knew it would be gold. 
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Anakha had this to say about Optimus Prime:
Oh, i agree. Both parties want to censor it. I'm tired of that too.
But.. your entire post... I mean... wait... I... jesus, stupid shit like this is why I stopped coming here.
YOUR ENTIRE FUCKING POST WAS ABOUT REPUBLICANS BEING THE EVIL DOERS WHO WANT TO DESTROY THE POOR VIDEO GAME INDUSTRY, JESUS FUCKING CHRIST! YOU DIDN'T MENTION DEMOCRATS ONCE AND MENTIONED REPUBLICANS THREE TIMES, INCLUDING BOTH YOUR OPENING AND CLOSING STATEMENTS.
Do you even read the things you write? Seriously.
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Snoota stopped staring at Deedlit long enough to write:
But.. your entire post... I mean... wait... I... jesus, stupid shit like this is why I stopped coming here.YOUR ENTIRE FUCKING POST WAS ABOUT REPUBLICANS BEING THE EVIL DOERS WHO WANT TO DESTROY THE POOR VIDEO GAME INDUSTRY, JESUS FUCKING CHRIST! YOU DIDN'T MENTION DEMOCRATS ONCE AND MENTIONED REPUBLICANS THREE TIMES, INCLUDING BOTH YOUR OPENING AND CLOSING STATEMENTS.
Do you even read the things you write? Seriously.
So, did you get the job at the nightclub or what?
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Mr. Parcelan stopped staring at Deedlit long enough to write:
Hey guys, join the Libertarians with me
I'm on that boat. 
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Karnaj wrote this stupid crap:
Eh, I don't mind 'em.Of course, I'm from Jersey, where we like our politicians good and corrupt.
Hey, if they get the job done, who cares how corrupt they are?
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DrPaintThinner has the right stuff
I'm on that boat.
Sup brotha, how you enjoyin' your inalieable rights today? 
Not that the source is any better. Seriously, why is that date saying it's June? Christ...
(We've been freaking out at PITR and 2+2 for the last couple days 
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That being said, you're really just fed up with horrible politicians in general, not Republicans.
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Mooj wrote this stupid crap:
Not that the source is any better. Seriously, why is that date saying it's June? Christ...
And it's been fixed, heh...
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Willias had this to say about Punky Brewster:
So, did you get the job at the nightclub or what?
I have to wear a suit to work, and the breast pocket has a little Playboy Bunny on it. It's big pimpin'.
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There was much rejoicing when Snoota said this:
I have to wear a suit to work, and the breast pocket has a little Playboy Bunny on it. It's big pimpin'.
I've met you in person, and I'm still having trouble picturing you in this outfit. I think it's something I'm gonna have to see to believe.
sigpic courtesy of This Guy, original modified by me
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Ja'Deth Issar Ka'bael had this to say about Knight Rider:
wait wait...Penny Arcade, etc, seems to be up in arms because new games would have to be played through to get their ESRB rating. And? That's like saying you have to watch a movie to give it a rating (which is already done). I'm...not seeing the problem with that.
I doubt any movies run for 10+ hours either. Now that wouldn't be a big problem on some games, but open-ended stuff like Oblivion or really long games like some RPGs out, it just would be take alot of time and money to get it a rating.
And thats not even counting User Created Content that the bill supposedly doesn't exclude. Katrinity fucked around with this message on 10-04-2006 at 08:38 AM.
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Katrinity impressed everyone with:
And thats not even counting User Created Content that the bill supposedly doesn't exclude.
Yes, now games are getting re-rated based on player created mods. 
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Ja'Deth Issar Ka'bael had this to say about Robocop:
wait wait...Penny Arcade, etc, seems to be up in arms because new games would have to be played through to get their ESRB rating. And? That's like saying you have to watch a movie to give it a rating (which is already done). I'm...not seeing the problem with that.
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When I started reading articles about Senator Brownback's bill - the one that would require that the ESRB play through games in their entirety - I expected to agree with it in principle, but take issue with its execution. The shrill phase of the site, where I would don armor and ride under the aegis of the true gamer no matter how mild the incentive, now rests in the reliquary with Xbox Controller Jokes and Jabs At User Friendly. I had chosen a singularly poor moment to become reasonable. Upon further examination, the Senator's plan (which I think may be rightly called a machination) is the sort of thing one might forge in the fires of Mount Doom.GamePolitics has more robust information than you might have seen projected in snark-studded editorials. The idea that the ESRB must "play through" all games is not the problem - the problem is that
1. "Playing through" games would not have discovered the content that got us into this mess.
Hot Coffee is one thing. That's low-fi erotica secreted away somewhere, dormant on the platter. But Oblivion is actually the better test, because it presents several cases that make the playthrough "thing" unworkable. Oblivion was re-rated based on a nude patch, i.e., user created content. There was some other rationale based on violence, but the ESRB was in an impossible position politically, needed to move, and Bethesda took the fall. But no playthrough is going to detect questionable content based on mods you have not installed. Oblivion also features in-house downloadable content, made by people who are not perverts - official enhancements and powerful horse clothes that can alter the experience. What's more, Oblivion is a vast, vast game - one that I'm sure some are still playing. This isn't a two-hour film or an album by controversial hip-hop firebrand Ice T. It's a dynamic experience based on player input - you might as well hire a cartographer to map the paths of electrons around a nucleus.
There's no turn-key solution to this problem, and I think most people agree it is a problem. At first I thought our noble Senator was simply being naive. I can be forgiven for that, most of the mainstream "sins" we decry are due more to a paucity of experience with the medium as opposed to authentically nefarious intent. He's not naive, though, because
2. "Playing through" games isn't really what the bill is about.
That part is powerful, yes, but it's prestidigitation. Let me tell you that Gabriel will be angry at me for using that word. I hope you aren't - but yes, the notion of them playing games or not playing them is sleight of hand. The bill is actually designed to seize editorial control from the electronic gaming industry. They create their own terms for describing game content - we might call such a thing a ratings system - and then they gin up their own body to discipline this rambunctious industry that has been at the root of so much controversy. Indeed, one can almost imagine the American flag gently billowing.
(CW)TB out.
Essentially, there's no way to rate games in a manner that these dorks leading our government would want. They're now wanting games to be rated partially on user created content, things that a normal play through of a game would not and could not find. Then there are also games that have vast amounts of content, such as the Elder Scrolls series, the Gothic series, and MMOs, you're looking at 100+ hours of play time in these. Then there are also games that randomly create content (such as Diablo 2 for instance) and they'd have to check each of those randomly created maps.
And even after all of that, they still may be forced to re-rate a game if something like Hot Coffee shows up, or if someone creates a nude patch.
In other words, it's something that just can't be done by the current ESRB. They'd need to be a review company like Gamespot or IGN to properly review all games in such a manner (and I don't see much profit in such a thing), and they could only review the content based on what is viewable by an average player, not someone who goes in and screws around with the files, or changes them via a patch.
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Ja'Deth Issar Ka'bael had this to say about (_|_):
wait wait...Penny Arcade, etc, seems to be up in arms because new games would have to be played through to get their ESRB rating. And? That's like saying you have to watch a movie to give it a rating (which is already done). I'm...not seeing the problem with that.
Show me any organization that has the employees, resources, and time to play through every single part of every single game made, including the hidden easter eggs and the fan-made content, and I will personally start backing this bill.
EDIT: Oh, yes, and do all of that before a game even goes to retail. Can't forget that part. Mooj fucked around with this message on 10-04-2006 at 02:43 PM.
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Mr. Parcelan stopped beating up furries long enough to write:
Sup brotha, how you enjoyin' your inalieable rights today?
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It was not by my hand that I am once again given flesh! I was called here by Mooj who wishes to pay me tribute!
EDIT: Oh, yes, and do all of that before a game even goes to retail. Can't forget that part.
This is the part that concerns me. Not only would it have to be done before the game's release, but WAY before that, too, since advertisements also carry the rating. "Rating Pending" only works for a while. Imagine games being delayed months simply because they have lots of content. Games will now be released with even less content than they tend to have now just so it doesn't take several extra months to get the rating.
The other arguments I will agree are solid. I'm just not seeing a lot of effort on the game-producing community to guarantee stuff like Hot Coffee doesn't happen again. Don't get me wrong...Hot Coffee didn't piss me off. I love the GTA games. The "fucking chicks on a bed until the vase falls off" minigame in God of War was very amusing. On the OTHER hand...God of War didn't hide it's content. Rockstar, however inaccessible it was, KNEW that it was leaving something in there that could be found. Something that would have potentially jumped it's rating level up. Let's not be selectively stupid here. I'd have liked to see two versions. I know I'd buy the dirtier version of games. I'm over 18 years old.
The problem is Rockstar didn't. Whether it was laziness (deleted or deactivated content usually gets removed from a game disc due to total storage capacity of the media) or a deliberate snicker behind the back of authority, they still left that shit in, and got off more or less scott free (if not better; it was like free publicity for them; they were never actually fined, I don't think).
Now it's nice for the industry to say "oh well...we won't do THAT again", but...that's like any other major industry asking you to let it regulate itself.
But...like I said, I see the merit of most of the arguments. I just don't agree that the system in place is good enough. You'll never be able to control third party content. That's right out. I downloaded skimpy lingerie and big titty mods for the Sims because I'm a lecherous, immature-minded man. There's eight bajillion sites out there for it. But the industry HAS to prove themselves reliably responsible and have a system for reliable culpability when they fail in their responsibility. Because folks...one slip is bad. Two slips and it gets worse, but more than that and if the industry can't regulate itself, you're FUCKED.
sigpic courtesy of This Guy, original modified by me
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I bet you never expected Ja'Deth Issar Ka'bael to say:
Then what's your solution? The idea that a game should be screen in it's entirety seems fairly reasonable to me. Even if the ESRB had to hire dedicated players or code handlers to comb through the stuff, it's not like you couldn't finish the game, submit it, and expect to have the game to launch in a month. Likewise, the argument about "what about open ended games" is humorous to me because it's not like the game is creating new content out of nowhere. MMO's are "open ended" because people play through the same events over and over. There's actually a finite amount of content in ANY game. You give the ESRB something where they get the "freakishly easy" version of the game so they can see everything. Sort of like developer mode (IE "God mode") or the like.The other arguments I will agree are solid. I'm just not seeing a lot of effort on the game-producing community to guarantee stuff like Hot Coffee doesn't happen again. Don't get me wrong...Hot Coffee didn't piss me off. I love the GTA games. The "fucking chicks on a bed until the vase falls off" minigame in God of War was very amusing. On the OTHER hand...God of War didn't hide it's content. Rockstar, however inaccessible it was, KNEW that it was leaving something in there that could be found. Something that would have potentially jumped it's rating level up. Let's not be selectively stupid here. I'd have liked to see two versions. I know I'd buy the dirtier version of games. I'm over 18 years old.
The problem is Rockstar didn't. Whether it was laziness (deleted or deactivated content usually gets removed from a game disc due to total storage capacity of the media) or a deliberate snicker behind the back of authority, they still left that shit in, and got off more or less scott free (if not better; it was like free publicity for them; they were never actually fined, I don't think).
Now it's nice for the industry to say "oh well...we won't do THAT again", but...that's like any other major industry asking you to let it regulate itself.
But...like I said, I see the merit of most of the arguments. I just don't agree that the system in place is good enough. You'll never be able to control third party content. That's right out. I downloaded skimpy lingerie and big titty mods for the Sims because I'm a lecherous, immature-minded man. There's eight bajillion sites out there for it. But the industry HAS to prove themselves reliably responsible and have a system for reliable culpability when they fail in their responsibility. Because folks...one slip is bad. Two slips and it gets worse, but more than that and if the industry can't regulate itself, you're FUCKED.
As opposed to how it is now, where the guys who made the game just tell the ESRB what is IN the game, and are punished if they lie?
yeah, playing the entire game as well as all user created content (Before it is created) makes a lot more sense.
Hot Coffee you can blame Rockstar for, but you can't blame Bethesda for something someone not even related to their development department created and distributed. However, they're trying to make that a factor in a game's rating and it's like rating human nature. You just can't do it.
Lyinar Ka`Bael, Piney Fresh Druidess - Luclin
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A sleep deprived Ja'Deth Issar Ka'bael stammered:
Then what's your solution? The idea that a game should be screen in it's entirety seems fairly reasonable to me. Even if the ESRB had to hire dedicated players or code handlers to comb through the stuff, it's not like you couldn't finish the game, submit it, and expect to have the game to launch in a month. Likewise, the argument about "what about open ended games" is humorous to me because it's not like the game is creating new content out of nowhere. MMO's are "open ended" because people play through the same events over and over. There's actually a finite amount of content in ANY game. You give the ESRB something where they get the "freakishly easy" version of the game so they can see everything. Sort of like developer mode (IE "God mode") or the like.The other arguments I will agree are solid. I'm just not seeing a lot of effort on the game-producing community to guarantee stuff like Hot Coffee doesn't happen again. Don't get me wrong...Hot Coffee didn't piss me off. I love the GTA games. The "fucking chicks on a bed until the vase falls off" minigame in God of War was very amusing. On the OTHER hand...God of War didn't hide it's content. Rockstar, however inaccessible it was, KNEW that it was leaving something in there that could be found. Something that would have potentially jumped it's rating level up. Let's not be selectively stupid here. I'd have liked to see two versions. I know I'd buy the dirtier version of games. I'm over 18 years old.
The problem is Rockstar didn't. Whether it was laziness (deleted or deactivated content usually gets removed from a game disc due to total storage capacity of the media) or a deliberate snicker behind the back of authority, they still left that shit in, and got off more or less scott free (if not better; it was like free publicity for them; they were never actually fined, I don't think).
Now it's nice for the industry to say "oh well...we won't do THAT again", but...that's like any other major industry asking you to let it regulate itself.
But...like I said, I see the merit of most of the arguments. I just don't agree that the system in place is good enough. You'll never be able to control third party content. That's right out. I downloaded skimpy lingerie and big titty mods for the Sims because I'm a lecherous, immature-minded man. There's eight bajillion sites out there for it. But the industry HAS to prove themselves reliably responsible and have a system for reliable culpability when they fail in their responsibility. Because folks...one slip is bad. Two slips and it gets worse, but more than that and if the industry can't regulate itself, you're FUCKED.
So you are for waiting an extra 3 months for games to come out because people have to play every damn detail of the game? And what do you think Congress is going to do once they "realize" that the ESRB cannot do that? They are going to take control of it, and yet another facet of the media will be controlled by the government. yaaaaaaaaaay...
PS: How do i go about going the Libretarian party?
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We all wondered WTF was being smoked when Ja'Deth Issar Ka'bael said this:
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Uh... 'Deth? I respect you man, so it pains me to say this, but... you're talking like an idiot.
My solution would be to let the ESRB do its damn job without meddling from the FCC and other government agencies that really have no business sticking their nose into games, but they do it anyway because it's an election year.
How many games come out weekly? Monthly? Every year? How long does it take for an average play-through of most of those games, NOT counting every single nook and cranny of the game's code.
Now... How many employees does the ESRB have devoted ONLY to the rankings? Let's not even go into the beauracracy and other employees involved in the organization, let's cover JUST how many employees there are whose responsibility it is to put out the rankings.
Next, how many employees would be REQUIRED to be hired in order to feasibly meet the demands of this bill. That's employees who, by a game's release, have seen every single thing that a game has had to offer, and have taken all the time required to do so. While getting paid to do it.
Furthermore, how many games out there can be modified? (Here's an easy answer to that question. "All of them".)
Finally, even with that in mind, would the system then be able to meet the retail release of these games? Bearing in mind that they would be required to play the final, retail versions of these games.
A rater "God Mode" would not meet the requirements of the bill either. How many games out there have varying death scenes? Branching story paths depending on success or failure in objectives? Different story features depending on the difficulty of play? (I can think of three of those off the top of my head, and I know there's more.) Furthermore, a rater "God Mode" would once again put the responsibility on the game company to show the rater everything, rather than on the rater to find everything.
Next, why DIDN'T Hot Coffee piss you off? A game company hiding content, regardless of what that content is, is just as stupid as you said. So why aren't you pissed off by it? You wanna know why they didn't get fined? Really? Because there is no authority there to fine them! You wanna know what penalty they suffered? Their stock price plummeted, and is STILL worth barely more than toilet paper in the grand scheme of things.
I will remind you that it is not the government's JOB to regulate this industry, any more than it's their job to regulate the film industry, or the literature industry. Mooj fucked around with this message on 10-04-2006 at 06:43 PM.
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Ja'Deth Issar Ka'bael had this to say about Matthew Broderick:
The other arguments I will agree are solid. I'm just not seeing a lot of effort on the game-producing community to guarantee stuff like Hot Coffee doesn't happen again. Don't get me wrong...Hot Coffee didn't piss me off. I love the GTA games. The "fucking chicks on a bed until the vase falls off" minigame in God of War was very amusing. On the OTHER hand...God of War didn't hide it's content. Rockstar, however inaccessible it was, KNEW that it was leaving something in there that could be found. Something that would have potentially jumped it's rating level up. Let's not be selectively stupid here. I'd have liked to see two versions. I know I'd buy the dirtier version of games. I'm over 18 years old.The problem is Rockstar didn't. Whether it was laziness (deleted or deactivated content usually gets removed from a game disc due to total storage capacity of the media) or a deliberate snicker behind the back of authority, they still left that shit in, and got off more or less scott free (if not better; it was like free publicity for them; they were never actually fined, I don't think).
Hold on here. You do realize that there was no possible way to get to said data without, essentially, hacking the game right? Now I'm not saying Rockstar was in the right by leaving that stuff in, however, you'd need to have someone go through, examine the files on the game's disk, and then modify the proper files to get said content to still show up in the game.
A person who plays through the game normally WAS NOT going to find the Hot Coffee content. You had to change stuff around to find that.
Meaning that even if ESRB did sit down and play through the game in it's entirety, the Hot Coffee stuff would not have been found unless A) Someone scanned through all of the game's files to see if any adult content existed, B) figured how how to manipulate said data so that it can be accessed and activated in the game, and C) then see if said content is enough to cause the game's rating to go up.
Bad thing for Rockstar is that the data was pretty easy to manipulate back into the game's normal data and allowed easy access to the stuff. However, a simple play through wouldn't have picked up that data, and would still have left GTA:SA with an M rating.
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Hot Coffee you can blame Rockstar for, but you can't blame Bethesda for something someone not even related to their development department created and distributed. However, they're trying to make that a factor in a game's rating and it's like rating human nature. You just can't do it.
But they're doing it anyway. :/
Also, likely all official patches would need to be screened by the ESRB as well, to make sure that the patches don't change the maturity level of the game.
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Nobody really understood why Maradon! wrote:
Neither do I.That is why believe in their marginalization.
The common people on average are not an iota better. The noble, hard-working American / Russian / Japaneseman / etc is a myth. Politicians are just common people whose average degree of immorality is more often exposed.
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Peanut butter ass Shaq Mod booooze lime pole over bench lick:
The common people on average are not an iota better. The noble, hard-working American / Russian / Japaneseman / etc is a myth. Politicians are just common people whose average degree of immorality is more often exposed.
The difference is that we give politicians the right to point a gun at us and tell us what to do.
Your neighbor may not be any more or less smart than your senator, but your neighbor can't take your money at gunpoint and throw you in jail if you resist. Maradon! fucked around with this message on 10-05-2006 at 05:36 PM.
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Maradon! impressed everyone with:
The difference is that we give politicians the right to point a gun at us and tell us what to do.Your neighbor may not be any more or less smart than your senator, but your neighbor can't take your money at gunpoint and throw you in jail if you resist.
Technically, your Senator shouldn't be able to do this, either.
-H
