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Topic: Catapults: Physics/Engineering Nerds Needed
Mr. Parcelan
posted 01-05-2006 12:51:11 AM
So I was playing Kingdom Under Fire and I noticed that the catapults in the game had a sort of unique design that I had not seen before. Here's a rough sketch that I did in MSPaint...

The idea is that the lever in the back (which there are two of) works in a way sort of like a ratchet. You pull it down to pull the throwing arm back, then move it back up without moving the arm. Several pulls would bring it to the ideal point for launching. The idea is that two men are pulling on the lever to pull it back at great speed.

I'm aware that it wouldn't work in its current iteration, but I ponder...how could it?

To do it, you'd need some kind of release lever and a counterweight system. My theory would be this...

What I want to know is a few things...

1) How would you make the ratchet-lever work? Is it even feasible to do it with two levers?

2) What sort of release trigger would be needed and how could it work?

3) Could it be done without a counterweight system?

I'm trying to figure this out because it really seems fun. I'm not particularly good with machines, thusly I turn to you all.

Anklebiter
Pancake
posted 01-05-2006 01:03:12 AM
You do not always need a counterweight, try twisting a rope, string, or rubber band really tight, and you can see what I mean.

As for the dual levers, I imagine they'd work similar to bicycle pedals, but don't take my word for that. No clue on the release trigger, that's what always confused my about catapults and the like.

Anklebiter fucked around with this message on 01-05-2006 at 01:03 AM.

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Alek
Not The Rapist
posted 01-05-2006 01:17:44 AM
Just make a trebuchet and quit yer bitchin'
"Love wisdom, and she will make you great. Embrace her, and she will bring you honour. She will be your crowning glory."
-Proverbs 4:8-9
Naimah
In a Fire
posted 01-05-2006 01:19:12 AM
Ankle hit it on the head. You're trying to make it into some kind of Trebuche, which work by exploiting gravity. Other types of catapults using different forms of energy. This one probably used torsion and Ankle pointed out.

As for your questions...

1) Imagine a wheel with spokes coming out of it and some type of shunt that comes into contact with it at the 10:30 position. As the wheel is turned clockwise the spokes life the shunt and as they pass it falls back into position. This is a simple ratchet. The two levers would simply both be on the same axle and driven by the same energy source.

2) The trigger can be as simple as knocking the shunt out of position. The wheel would no longer be held in place and the force stored would be released.

3) This goes back to Ankles post. For a simple demonstration take two lengths of twine, or one doubled back on itself, and place a pen in between them. While keeping the length taunt, rotate the pen several times. Letting go of the pen will cause it to spin. The more you rotate, and the tigher you keep the string, the faster it will spin. When you use many very large lengths of rope to do this you can store a fairly impressive ammount of power.

Sean
posted 01-05-2006 01:22:12 AM
I came here all excited to pimp a catapult design website I consulted years ago in school when we built model trebuchets, but it seems the domain has been snatched up by a squatter.

Formerly of nzp.com, now domainsponsor.com.

A Kansas City Shuffle is when everybody looks right, you go left.

It's not something people hear about.

Mr. Parcelan
posted 01-05-2006 01:25:03 AM
So, how would you do the torsion catapult design with a regular catapult? Would you twine the rope about a base for the throwing arm or would the rope itself serve as a base?
Naimah
In a Fire
posted 01-05-2006 01:31:11 AM
You have your rectangular base. Somewhere along the length of this the ropes will be suspended. One end of the arm is placed in between the two groupings of ropes, more then likely with several rotations already done. The horizontal bar you see in the catapult layout you depicted is there to stop the forward motion of the arm at the desired of release.
Mr. Parcelan
posted 01-05-2006 01:42:57 AM
I'm a little lost, which are you referring to here?

This is a rough top-down sketch. Are you saying that the arm needs to be attached to a base arm as in Fig. A or can it be done just with the torsion ropes in Fig. B?

Further, how do you keep the ropes from spinning out of control once you've got them twisted up? I don't think you can keep twisting them over and over.

Naimah
In a Fire
posted 01-05-2006 01:47:54 AM
It would be like b. And the vertical arm is going to keep the lever from flying all over the place. When you don't have the arm pulled down it is going to be in the upright position because of the force that the ropes are exerting.
Mr. Parcelan
posted 01-05-2006 01:56:28 AM
I see...so the ropes are twisted when you pull down? How does that work?
Naimah
In a Fire
posted 01-05-2006 02:02:09 AM
The ropes are already twisted to some degree. When you pull it down, they are twisted more and are given some range to move through. Whenever you release whatever is holding it back, the ropes attempt to completly release all their energy. However, they are stopped by the horizontal bar.
nem-x
posted 01-05-2006 02:28:47 AM
Ja'Deth Issar Ka'bael
I posted in a title changing thread.
posted 01-05-2006 03:21:18 PM
quote:
nem-x had this to say about Tron:
You terrorist!

yeah he's going to hurl giant bars of soap into Paris.

Lyinar's sweetie and don't you forget it!*
"All those moments will be lost in time, like tears in rain. Time to die. -Roy Batty
*Also Lyinar's attack panda

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Tarquinn
Personally responsible for the decline of the American Dollar
posted 01-05-2006 03:26:29 PM
quote:
So quoth Ja'Deth Issar Ka'bael:
yeah he's going to hurl giant bars of soap into Paris.

which then will retaliate by carpet bombing the US with diet pills.

Durrr.

~Never underestimate the power of a Dark Clown.
Maradon!
posted 01-05-2006 05:57:09 PM
quote:
Peanut butter ass Shaq Tarquinn booooze lime pole over bench lick:
which then will retaliate by carpet bombing the US with diet pills.

Durrr.


Australia is the fattest country in the world.

Gork
Pancake
posted 01-06-2006 03:55:20 AM
Try typing "Onager" into a google image search =)

(Attempted to build a trebuchet in High School. [My research and planning went smooth as silk, Im just a shitty woodworker =p])

Another Unsolved Mystery is goin' down in history.
ArchAngel
Not a girl, never will be, no matter how much you may hear differently
posted 01-06-2006 04:19:31 AM
quote:
Gork had this to say about Pirotess:
Try typing "Onager" into a google image search =)

(Attempted to build a trebuchet in High School. [My research and planning went smooth as silk, Im just a shitty woodworker =p])


I think I remember when you tried doing that... was a grand idea, just... well... the implementation... yeah.

"What power would hell have if those imprisoned there could not dream of heaven?" -Dream, Sandman
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