Anyone who says "Yes, in Arms" gets a lump of fecal matter in their stockings.
Delidgamond fucked around with this message on 12-23-2005 at 10:20 PM.
A Warrior with 420 defense is basicly immune to critical hits, so blood craze is pointless. Pick up Tactical Mastery, 5/5 Defiance and Imp Shieldwall with those points.
new spec Naj fucked around with this message on 12-23-2005 at 10:23 PM.
With your build as it is, I'd drop Blood Craze, and pick up Howl and two points into either TM, or Imp Battle Shout. Reason being, if you plan on PvPing *at all* you need to have at least 2 points into TM so you can intercept from any stance. I tried PvPing without TM and it just doesn't work. PvE you can get away with it most of the time, and you can forgo the other points into Arms. One last choice is Improved Shield Bash, which can be very helpful against certain mobs (unless you plan on leaping straight into MC and doing NOTHING ELSE, in which case maybe you can skip it 
)
Oh, and anybody who tells you stuns are pointless end game obviously never tanked Zath. (debate on whether ZG is end game commencing in 3, 2, 1...)
It is by caffeine alone I set my mind in motion. It is by the beans of Java the thoughts aquire speed, the teeth acquire stains, the stains become a warning. It is by caffeine alone I set my mind in motion.
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Rockstar games presents; Kuroi Madoushi;
Never put more than 15 points in Protection, it's just not worth it. The best tanks I know favor 10 Arms for Deflection and Tactical Mastery, 15 Protection for Anticipation, Iron Will, and Defiance, and the rest in Fury for whatever the hell they want. I might be wrong on Tactical Mastery, but that's not too big a deal, you can just move those 5 into Fury for more good stuff if you don't change stances (I prefer the versatility for soloing, myself).
If your tanks don't get 1 point into improve shield block they are shit. It saves you an extra 100 damage every 6 seconds and makes it one less rage since of the Deflection talent.
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Delidgamond was naked while typing this:
If your tanks don't get 1 point into improve shield block they are shit. It saves you an extra 100 damage every 6 seconds and makes it one less rage since of the Deflection talent.
Last I checked, you tend to get overhealed by more than that so it's not exactly compelling enough to be worth points. That's how most of the Protection tree is, in my opinion. It just doesn't offer enough talents that actually offering a noticeable improvement to tanking ability. Anyhow, Shield Block serves only one real purpose: setting up Revenge.
It is by caffeine alone I set my mind in motion. It is by the beans of Java the thoughts aquire speed, the teeth acquire stains, the stains become a warning. It is by caffeine alone I set my mind in motion.
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FUCK. MOTHERFUCKING SHIT. DO YOU FUCKING KNOW HOW FUCKING STUPID YOU ARE? SHIT. FUCK. It's not your fault, Kuroi Madoushi.
Last I checked, you tend to get overhealed by more than that so it's not exactly compelling enough to be worth points. That's how most of the Protection tree is, in my opinion. It just doesn't offer enough talents that actually offering a noticeable improvement to tanking ability. Anyhow, Shield Block serves only one real purpose: setting up Revenge.
I think you're acting kinda stupid. I always found Shield Block invaluable. 
It's not something people hear about.
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Sean's fortune cookie read:
I think you're acting kinda stupid. I always found Shield Block invaluable.
Once your block value is worth a shit, it indeed rocks.
I block for around 200 nowadays so I love using Shield Block every chance I see it up.
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Yuri wrote this stupid crap:
Once your block value is worth a shit, it indeed rocks.I block for around 200 nowadays so I love using Shield Block every chance I see it up.
He must be using like, a scarlet aegis or something. 
It's not something people hear about.
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How.... Sean.... uughhhhhh:
He must be using like, a scarlet aegis or something.
Draconian Deflector, actually. It just doesn't block enough to be worth spending points on the talent. Besides, I'm a knuckle-dragging damage whore most of the time; I only tank when absolutely necessary. As it stands, nobody wants warriors period, protection spec or otherwise. Kuroi Madoushi fucked around with this message on 12-23-2005 at 11:45 PM.
It is by caffeine alone I set my mind in motion. It is by the beans of Java the thoughts aquire speed, the teeth acquire stains, the stains become a warning. It is by caffeine alone I set my mind in motion.
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Kuroi Madoushi had this to say about Pirotess:
Draconian Deflector, actually. It just doesn't block enough to worth spending points on the talent. Besides, I'm a knuckle-dragging damage whore most of the time; I only tank when absolutely necessary.
That's probably because you fucking suck 
Now everyone realizes these random schmucks suck at grouping, raiding, and all other forms of PVE, and are taking appropriate action.
Distinguish yourself from the crowd, newbcakes. Or, in layman's terms, learn2play.
It's not something people hear about.
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Yuri's unholy Backstreet Boys obsession manifested in:
That's probably because you fucking suck
Or because I quit the game for 3 months and lost my guild? I'm not bad at what I do and I've never had issues off-tanking, it's just that every raid guild has some 20 warriors already and they don't want any more.
It is by caffeine alone I set my mind in motion. It is by the beans of Java the thoughts aquire speed, the teeth acquire stains, the stains become a warning. It is by caffeine alone I set my mind in motion.
31/20/0 is the monkey build. 31/5/15 is the 'powertank' build.
Razor fucked around with this message on 12-24-2005 at 01:56 AM.
+5% faggotry
+25% sex with other men
Unless you're a guild's designated tank, just don't do it. DON'T DO IT.
I'd go 31/5/15, but I love shield slam for tanking. Taeldian fucked around with this message on 12-24-2005 at 04:25 AM.
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El Cuchillo's account was hax0red to write:
Blood craze is decent when you're leveling up on regular mobs, since you'll heal more back than the crit bonus did to you initially. In PvP it's dumb, and elite PvE mobs hit way harder.
The way I see it is talents like Blood Craze and Imp. Demoralizing Shout are just ways to further mitigate any damage I take. I thought about investing in Tactical Mastery/Anger Managment but whenever I tank in a group I never really need to change stances unless I need to hamstring something for some reason. I wanted to invest in Imp. Sunder Armor but lack of rage isn't much of a problem for me in groups. With my build I was trying to take as many talents as possible that will accomplish two things: Reducing the damage I take and increasing the threat I generate.
As for Shield Slam, wouldn't it do more damage than MS if I was using a 1H/Shield anyways?
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Vorago attempted to be funny by writing:
Protection spec will be a lot more pleasing to the eye come 1.9 when Imp. Revenge's stun proc becomes exempt from diminishing returns for PvP and general PvE imo. 3sec stuns your opponent can never become immune to? Alright!
Actually, that alone has me thinking about trying out a Prot spec for a bit. That quick stun was always pretty nice, but then there was the diminishing returns, which made the talent suck hard.
Prot is still gonna need some upgrades, but it's actually starting to look like a viable spec to me now. It's probably also since I play a Tauren now, so 5% extra HP and a 2-second AoE stun are pretty damn nice for main-tanking.
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Everyone wondered WTF when JooJooFlop wrote:
The way I see it is talents like Blood Craze and Imp. Demoralizing Shout are just ways to further mitigate any damage I take. I thought about investing in Tactical Mastery/Anger Managment but whenever I tank in a group I never really need to change stances unless I need to hamstring something for some reason. I wanted to invest in Imp. Sunder Armor but lack of rage isn't much of a problem for me in groups. With my build I was trying to take as many talents as possible that will accomplish two things: Reducing the damage I take and increasing the threat I generate.As for Shield Slam, wouldn't it do more damage than MS if I was using a 1H/Shield anyways?
For the higher end encounters, flipping to berserker and throwing up rage to counter fears (Onyxia, Magmadar) is invaluable, even as horde with our "overpowered" tremor totems.
Still, at least two in Anger Management early on will allow you to intercept when you need to, invaluable in PvP.
Edit: Clarified, oops Delphi Aegis fucked around with this message on 12-24-2005 at 02:55 PM.
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JooJooFlop thought about the meaning of life:
The way I see it is talents like Blood Craze and Imp. Demoralizing Shout are just ways to further mitigate any damage I take. I thought about investing in Tactical Mastery/Anger Managment but whenever I tank in a group I never really need to change stances unless I need to hamstring something for some reason. I wanted to invest in Imp. Sunder Armor but lack of rage isn't much of a problem for me in groups. With my build I was trying to take as many talents as possible that will accomplish two things: Reducing the damage I take and increasing the threat I generate.As for Shield Slam, wouldn't it do more damage than MS if I was using a 1H/Shield anyways?
I still stand by "if you go more than 10 in fury and don't have Piercing Howl something's wrong with you". It lets you snare without having to leave Defensive stance, and you don't have to deal with any server range weirdness. It may be lower duration, but its unlimited targets and lack of facing requirement make it very useful. I would still drop the points in Blood Craze and put them into Improved Bash (if you really don't want to get Tactical Mastery, which is workable in PvE-only builds). As others have said, in later situations you don't WANT to be crit on, and having a talent that encourages being crit on works counter to that.
Shield Slam's damage is secondary (very nice, but still secondary) to the threat bonus, which is something MS doesn't have. I don't really know how it compares damage wise, but you may be right about it being about the same.
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Mr. Parcelan said this about your mom:
The 31/5/15 build gives you MS, Cruelty and Defiance, so you don't really gimp yourselves for PvP (especially considering that Enrage is getting the business) and you're a pretty solid tank.
Parce, you realize that you can be viable and quite good in PvP without MS, right? And Defiance does not an awesome tank make, it helps you to hold aggro, and with the right set of healers you can survive but you can survive a whole lot better with more in protection.
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Ferret attempted to be funny by writing:
Parce, you realize that you can be viable and quite good in PvP without MS, right? And Defiance does not an awesome tank make, it helps you to hold aggro, and with the right set of healers you can survive but you can survive a whole lot better with more in protection.
Eh. Pure Prot specs tend to be pretty gimped in PvP and even if you're viable, you're still not as good as you would be if you had MS.
MS completely kills Druids and Priests, two big problem classes.
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Batty had this to say about Punky Brewster:
Except that, if you're going protection spec, you're doing it for raiding and not PvP. Most warriors who do protection spec don't give a fuck about PvP.
Fo' rizzle, Batizzle.
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Mr. Parcelan said this about your mom:
Eh. Pure Prot specs tend to be pretty gimped in PvP and even if you're viable, you're still not as good as you would be if you had MS.MS completely kills Druids and Priests, two big problem classes.
MS does nothing against a druid, since they can easily escape and wait for the debuff to go off before healing, and MS doesn't effect how much damage a priest's shield absorbs.
Where as with a protection spec you can silence these casters, stun them with concussion blow, and Shield slam for high damage as well as knocking off MotW or PW:F. Not to mention having a longer disarm to neutralize another warrior's desire to MS, or disable them with a revenge or concussion blow.
Damage is rarely everything in PvP, I'd much rather act as a way to completly neutralize other classes while the mages/hunters kill things than try and kill a single cloth caster.
This is the build I think would work well. Willias fucked around with this message on 12-24-2005 at 05:14 PM.
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Batty had this to say about Cuba:
Except that, if you're going protection spec, you're doing it for raiding and not PvP. Most warriors who do protection spec don't give a fuck about PvP.
liez, my guild has a prot specced warrior who is absolutely sick in PVP. 
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Addy wrote, obviously thinking too hard:
liez, my guild has a prot specced warrior who is absolutely sick in PVP.
They can be if they have support. ;D I don't really know much about PvP anymore anyways because I never do it, despite being on a PvP server. It's horribly unbalanced and the ranking system is idiotic. ^_^
My server actually has a system in place for people trying to reach the higher ranks of honor caps so that people don't have to PvP 24/7 to get to High Warlord.
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Check out the big brain on Batty!
They can be if they have support. ;D I don't really know much about PvP anymore anyways because I never do it, despite being on a PvP server. It's horribly unbalanced and the ranking system is idiotic. ^_^My server actually has a system in place for people trying to reach the higher ranks of honor caps so that people don't have to PvP 24/7 to get to High Warlord.
Over on my server there is no real system for Alliance, although there's a "PVP-oriented" guild/group that tries to manipulate it. Unfortunately they're not too intelligent... apparently the first hunter that hit GM completely fucked up the order for them. Teehee. Horde side is dominated by a single guild group that wrecks AB within 6-7 minutes.
The interesting thing about my guildie is (afaik) he soloes, so I have no idea if he actually gets any support. Addy fucked around with this message on 12-24-2005 at 05:42 PM.
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There was much rejoicing when Addy said this:
Over on my server there is no real system for Alliance, although there's a "PVP-oriented" guild/group that tries to manipulate it. Unfortunately they're not too intelligent... apparently the first hunter that hit GM completely fucked up the order for them. Teehee. Horde side is dominated by a single guild group that wrecks AB within 6-7 minutes.The interesting thing about my guildie is (afaik) he soloes, so I have no idea if he actually gets any support.
It's basically a system in place to keep people from having to PvP 24/7 like I said, caps for different ranks to keep the person closest to HW gaining on their bar towards it and such. I think we have some 10-20 HWs on my server, all of them basically in the 2 big PvP guilds (they get to come on my guild's raids too). I think for our first domo downing we had like 5 HWs and for some of our rag runs we've had as many as 8 or 9. Which is crazy.
