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Topic: Metroid Prime 2: Echoes
Maradon!
posted 09-26-2005 12:45:45 AM
SPOILERS

This game was pretty fun, but I really don't think it stood up up to the Metroid level of greatness.

The gameplay was fairly engaging and challenging without being frustrating. Most of the bosses weren't very impressive, but the atmosphere and artwork was very well done and engrossing. I particularly liked how, when you returned the energy to each sector, the environment changed noticibly - it stopped raining in torvus, agon and sanctuary brightened up a lot, etc.

A couple things kept this game from being really great, though. For one, the music wasn't very good. I liked the tune over the intro, but through the rest of the game it was "bleepy", unremarkable and repetative. The items you got weren't all that great, either. The dark and light beams weren't all that great and combined with the ammo requirement, I found myself only pulling them out to open doors. The charge combos for each ate up way too much ammo and frankly just weren't agile enough to be used on most bosses anyway. The annihilator beam wasn't bad, but I still wound up saving it for fear that I'd run out of ammo at the wrong time.

More than that the level design wasn't all that great. The obstacles felt like a system of artificial locks created to justify the keys you were given, rather than an incidental world(s) that existed for it's own sake, that you could navigate with the interesting powerups you had.

Also, what the hell is with the utter lack of voices? Is it beyond them to give Samus or the marines or the luminoth a few lines beyond the occasional "Oof!" or half-second blurb of unintelligible alien gibberish?

All in all, I feel the same way about the Prime series as I felt about the N64 Legend of Zelda - that it's just a game, and not thought provoking or intellectually stimulating in any way. The original was, the SNES version was.

I also feel that it wouldn't have taken too much to make the game about a thousand times better. Throw in some voices for the characters, maybe an FMV here or there, make each individual "room" three or four times bigger, add more, less powerful enemies and maybe even ambient creatures so everything doesn't feel so damn empty. A slightly less predictable plot wouldn't have hurt either.

Kegwen
Sonyfag
posted 09-26-2005 12:47:32 AM
quote:
Maradon! attempted to be funny by writing:
All in all, I feel the same way about the Prime series as I felt about the N64 Legend of Zelda - that it's just a game, and not thought provoking or intellectually stimulating in any way. The original was, the SNES version was.

Oh you didn't

Ocarina of Time was the fucking shit

Maradon!
posted 09-26-2005 12:50:05 AM
quote:
Kegwening:
Oh you didn't

Ocarina of Time was the fucking shit


OoT was easily better than the Prime series, don't get me wrong, but it suffered from similar issues albeit to a lesser extent. It was mostly predictable, mediocre at times, and could have been a lot better imo.

One other problem I had was that Samus looked damn goofy at the end. Her hair was modeled bad (even taking helmet-hair into account) and she had a serious valley-girl look. She also wasn't wearing the two-piece she was in the SNES version

Maradon! fucked around with this message on 09-26-2005 at 12:52 AM.

Kegwen
Sonyfag
posted 09-26-2005 12:55:34 AM
quote:
Maradon! had this to say about Duck Tales:
OoT was easily better than the Prime series, don't get me wrong, but it suffered from similar issues albeit to a lesser extent. It was mostly predictable, mediocre at times, and could have been a lot better imo.

Yeah, well, playing it when I was maybe 12 probably had a lot to do with me holding it in such high regard. Were I to play it through when I was older, I probably would have blown through it in a day and never really thought about it again.

I guess that's similar to the annoying "nothing will ever be as good as the original mario bros because I played it when I was five years old!! THE PINNACLE OF GAMING! It's all down hill from the NES folks!" bullshit I see everywhere. All of you that read the previous sentence and are prepared to write an angry or elitist reply, don't bother. I don't care. Though I hope I don't become the same way with titles that were around when I was younger. YOU HOOLIGAN CHILDREN DON'T KNOW REAL VIDEO GAMES.

Prime 1 was really fun, though not terribly memorable. I never got around to playing Echoes.

Suddar
posted 09-26-2005 01:03:16 AM
I actually kind of agree with Maradon. OoT was fun but I've play LTTP through more times than I can count. It stays fresh for a long time, OoT doesn't have the same charm.

Prime didn't impress me. It had a lot to live up to, considering Super Metroid's badassery. Unfortunately it couldn't reach its potential. The controls are what did me in.

Palador ChibiDragon
Dismembered
posted 09-26-2005 01:05:47 AM
Prime was good. I played through, beat it, loved it.

Prime Echos wasn't as good. Got tired of it, quit. It just didn't feel enough like a classic Metroid game. And putting ammo into the beam weapons was a bad idea.

I believe in the existance of magic, not because I have seen proof of its existance, but because I refuse to live in a world where it does not exist.
JooJooFlop
Hungry Hungry Hippo
posted 09-26-2005 01:05:52 AM
quote:
Maradon! impressed everyone with:
All in all, I feel the same way about the Prime series as I felt about the N64 Legend of Zelda - that it's just a game, and not thought provoking or intellectually stimulating in any way. The original was, the SNES version was.

I fail to recall what was so thought-provoking or intellectually stimulating about the NES and SNES versions of Metroid or Zelda.

JooJooFlop fucked around with this message on 09-26-2005 at 01:06 AM.

I don't know how to be sexy. If I catch a girl looking at me and our eyes lock, I panic and open mine wider. Then I lick my lips and rub my genitals. And mouth the words "You're dead."
Densetsu
NOT DRYSART
posted 09-26-2005 01:08:49 AM
I think most of Maradon's concerns (except maybe music) will be fixed in Prime 3 since it will be for the Revolution. I hope this is the case since, for once, I actually agree with Maradon. I liked Prime 2 Echoes, but not nearly as much as the first PRime, and not as much as the side-scrollers. But I have to say that Super Metroid's controls sucked the ass. Expecially having to press select to toggle EACH AND EVERY SPECIAL WEAPON. I think the GBA games did the side-scrolling controls much better, although Super Metroid's X-Ray scope spoiled me.

I won't go into OoT.

I was in the Virgin Islands once. I met a girl, we ate lobster, drank piña coladas. At sunset, we made love like sea otters. That was a pretty good day. Why couldn't I get that day over, and over?
Kegwen
Sonyfag
posted 09-26-2005 01:09:42 AM
quote:
Suddar had this to say about John Romero:
I actually kind of agree with Maradon. OoT was fun but I've play LTTP through more times than I can count. It stays fresh for a long time, OoT doesn't have the same charm.

I'm the opposite. LTTP has gotten one, maybe two playthroughs from me. Maybe I'll play it again when I get another working SNES, though.

Suddar
posted 09-26-2005 01:10:17 AM
Super Metroid had awesome controls. You could do anything.
My buddies and I used to sit down and have races through LTTP. First one to beat Ganon is one manly dude

Suddar fucked around with this message on 09-26-2005 at 01:12 AM.

Dave
)_(
posted 09-26-2005 01:11:34 AM
I loved metroid prime 1, but 2... that was a chore. I have to agree with what Maradon said.
The story was cool and left alot of things open but it just didn't happen.

I'll still buy the revlution just for prime 3 though.

Maradon!
posted 09-26-2005 01:12:43 AM
quote:
Densetsuing:
Expecially having to press select to toggle EACH AND EVERY SPECIAL WEAPON.

You turned off weapons!?

Prime 3 may turn out to be better, but you're going to have to play it with a remote control.

Maradon! fucked around with this message on 09-26-2005 at 01:13 AM.

Densetsu
NOT DRYSART
posted 09-26-2005 01:14:27 AM
quote:
Suddar had this to say about Tron:
Super Metroid had awesome controls. You could do anything.

Except use another weapon while having the Grappling beam (which had really twitchy and crappy detection on it) selected. Or use missiles with the X-Ray Scope selected. Or use beam attacks with a Missile selected.

Super Metroid made NO USE of the shoulder buttons at all. It should be a crime to neglect controller buttons like that. Yeah, the shoulder buttons let you choose angles, but the GBA games have proven that only one shoulder button is necessary for that function. Not to mention that if you could use the Y button in conjunction with the normal Fire button to use missiles, the Y button's function would have been unnecessary.

I was in the Virgin Islands once. I met a girl, we ate lobster, drank piña coladas. At sunset, we made love like sea otters. That was a pretty good day. Why couldn't I get that day over, and over?
Densetsu
NOT DRYSART
posted 09-26-2005 01:15:54 AM
quote:
Maradon! said this about your mom:
You turned off weapons!?

No, because the combos that required you to turn off weapons weren't worth using at all. See above for my actual meaning.

I was in the Virgin Islands once. I met a girl, we ate lobster, drank piña coladas. At sunset, we made love like sea otters. That was a pretty good day. Why couldn't I get that day over, and over?
Maradon!
posted 09-26-2005 01:16:54 AM
quote:
Densetsuing:
Except use another weapon while having the Grappling beam (which had really twitchy and crappy detection on it) selected. Or use missiles with the X-Ray Scope selected. Or use beam attacks with a Missile selected.

Super Metroid made NO USE of the shoulder buttons at all. It should be a crime to neglect controller buttons like that. Yeah, the shoulder buttons let you choose angles, but the GBA games have proven that only one shoulder button is necessary for that function. Not to mention that if you could use the Y button in conjunction with the normal Fire button to use missiles, the Y button's function would have been unnecessary.


Wait a second...using the X-Ray scope paused everything else in the entire world, why the hell would you want to shoot anything with it on?

I really don't remember any of the problems you're complaining about.

Suddar
posted 09-26-2005 01:19:51 AM
Seriously, what kind of crazy gripes are these. If you're talking about the combos where you got shields from your weapons or something (I don't know what else you'd be refering to), I used those maybe once and that was only to confirm it was really possible. You said yourself that they weren't useful so why are you implying that you used them? Please explain wtf you're talking about because I'm lost
oh I get it nevermind

Using a weapon while using the grappling beam...I don't think I've ever had to do that except maybe shooting down, which was easy.

Suddar fucked around with this message on 09-26-2005 at 01:22 AM.

Densetsu
NOT DRYSART
posted 09-26-2005 01:20:39 AM
quote:
Maradon! had this to say about Matthew Broderick:
Wait a second...using the X-Ray scope paused everything else in the entire world, why the hell would you want to shoot anything with it on?

I really don't remember any of the problems you're complaining about.



I'm too lazy to turn it off since it was always my default special weapon selected. I had to purposefully switch it off to use missiles instead of simply holding down another button. Not to mention that having to switch from missiles to powerbomb to use a powerbomb was unnecessary. All they had to to was toggle missile selection to automatically be powerbomb while in morph ball form. Just like holding down the missile button in the GBA games while morph balled sets a powerbomb.

I'm not saying the controls are the worst thing ever, just that they managed to actually make them better on a system with fewer buttons.

I was in the Virgin Islands once. I met a girl, we ate lobster, drank piña coladas. At sunset, we made love like sea otters. That was a pretty good day. Why couldn't I get that day over, and over?
Skaw
posted 09-26-2005 01:35:14 AM
Once you got the annihilator, dark/light ammo becomes no problem. As whatever you kill kicks out both types. Also you don't need to kill just enemies to get special ammo, you can kill plants and stuff.
Mooj
Scorned Fanboy
posted 09-26-2005 02:43:39 AM
The idea of needing ammo at ALL for beams weapons in a Metroid is wrong.

I can buy it for the missile weapons, but I loathed having to get ammo for my beams.

Azrael Heavenblade
Damn Dirty Godmoder
posted 09-26-2005 02:48:24 AM
Ammo was a chore for me until I discovered that both enemies and the storage units would grant me the opposite ammo, then it wasn't so bad. I agree that the music was more repetitive, but I honestly didn't notice it in trying to get to my next objective in Echoes. I think more could have been done with the suits, but honestly the light teleport ability of the Light Suit was nifty.

Though the boss fights were more technical than that of the first Prime, I actually found it more fulfilling to beat a boss in Echoes because of the skill required. The Chikka battle actually made me practice my grapple beam swings, which I thought were underused in the first game. The landscapes were very well made and intricate, and there were definite points in the dark world that the atmosphere was very creepy and unreal. Also, the addition of the Screw Attack in a 3D setting was done fairly well, though perfecting wall jumps was a major pain in the ass until I got it down. I thought the echo visor was an interesting concept, and the dark visor was not much more than a utility like the heat visor from the first one.

Gripes: Though ammo wasn't terribly a chore, it still prevented my using the different beams as much as I'd have liked. I hardly ever used the annihilator beam except to open doors and to use on beacons and crystals, and on the final boss. Maradon pegged the slowness of the beam combos dead on for the bosses, though if you dodged and aimed right, they could be used in some instances, like for against Chyklings with the Dark Burst and the Sun Burst against Quadraxis in its damaged state. Super missles were every bit as useful as always, but there were several enemies that made them frustrating to use against, like Pirate Commandos. Switching visors for some of the boss battles was a chore, especially when you didn't know which one would be required. And the whole Dark Samus thing was trite and awful. It was probably little more than an attempt to pit you against a boss with similar skills to Samus.

Other than that, I've liked playing both Prime games, and I'm seriously looking forwards to Prime 3, though the controller weirds me out.

"The basic tool for manipulation of reality is the manipulation of words. If you can control the meaning of words, you can control the people who must use them." - Philip K. Dick
JooJooFlop
Hungry Hungry Hippo
posted 09-26-2005 02:49:31 AM
At first needing ammo for the beams bothered me, but I got over it. Besides, if you do run out of ammo you can always fire a normal shot by charging up the beam.

And the only thing I hated in that game was those enemies that could infect your suit with a virus. Pain in the ass little doodads.

I don't know how to be sexy. If I catch a girl looking at me and our eyes lock, I panic and open mine wider. Then I lick my lips and rub my genitals. And mouth the words "You're dead."
Skaw
posted 09-26-2005 03:07:17 AM
The Dark beam sucked overall, until you got Dark Burst. Sunburst sucks though, but the Light beam is great, since it's actually fast.
Vinven D`Slyfox
posted 09-26-2005 03:09:45 AM
You are responsible for this, aren't you?
Maradon!
posted 09-26-2005 07:27:30 AM
quote:
x--Vinven D`SlyfoxO-('-'Q) :
You are responsible for this, aren't you?

No

Dave
)_(
posted 09-26-2005 08:05:33 AM
The last dark samus fight was the worst boss fight out of both games. Though the ending was cool.

The ammo for the beams stoped me from using them other than on boss fights for silly combo shots if I felt like it. Even when ammo is sort of easy to get with the 4th weapon.

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