I don't know how he's going to get out of it without losing face now, and maintianing face is pretty critical when you've got a 40% approval rating or whatever it is now.

Your thoughts?

Frankly this is just a sad case of a woman who doesn't know what to do with her grief while leftist groups are exploiting it.

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JooJooFlop obviously shouldn't have said:
FYI, she already has met with the president along with other mothers of soldiers who have died in Iraq. Bush meets with the parents of fallen soldiers frequently.

Frankly this is just a sad case of a woman who doesn't know what to do with her grief while leftist groups are exploiting it.

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That's pretty much what it amounts to. She needs to seek some serious counciling. And that's not a slam at her, she lost her child in a war, lots of people need to talk to a professional when that happens.

It's gathering press because her little group is the "closest" group to the Bush ranch. Most other protestors stay quite a bit farther away.

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Check out the big brain on Azizza!
Bush has already met with her once. To meet with her a second time would set a bad precedent that would do a lot of damage in the long rung.
This woman is an embarrassment and is dishonoring the memory of her son. Her family has denounced her and her husband is filing for divorce over all this. She needs to grow up.

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Why is she an embarrassment? Last I knew, peacefull protesting wasn't against the law. If her or her group was causing any damage, the police would be well within their rights (and Im sure they would have by now) to break it up.

Grade A family she has there btw, a mother goes through some rough times and they denounce her; rather than actually trying to get her some professional help.

Reynar fucked around with this message on 08-16-2005 at 04:54 PM.

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The Sheehan Family lost our beloved Casey in the Iraq War and we have been silently, respectfully grieving. We do not agree with the political motivations and publicity tactics of Cindy Sheehan. She now appears to be promoting her own personal agenda and notoriety at the the expense of her son's good name and reputation. The rest of the Sheehan Family supports the troops, our country, and our President, silently, with prayer and respect.

Sincerely,
Casey Sheehan's grandparents, aunts, uncles and numerous cousins.

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They see what she is doing as nothing more than political posturing. A view that I happen to agree with. Her son Volunteered to join the service. He knew what he was getting into and went willingly.

Even Cincy was happy with bush at one point.
From : http://www.thereporter.com/republished/ci_2923921

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Sincerity was something Cindy had hoped to find in the meeting. Shortly after Casey died, Bush sent the family a form letter expressing his condolences, and Cindy said she felt it was an impersonal gesture.

"I now know he's sincere about wanting freedom for the Iraqis," Cindy said after their meeting. "I know he's sorry and feels some pain for our loss. And I know he's a man of faith."

The meeting didn't last long, but in their time with Bush, Cindy spoke about Casey and asked the president to make her son's sacrifice count for something. They also spoke of their faith.

While meeting with Bush, as well as Sen. John McCain, R-Arizona, was an honor, it was almost a tangent benefit of the trip. The Sheehans said they enjoyed meeting the other families of fallen soldiers, sharing stories, contact information, grief and support.

For some, grief was still visceral and raw, while for others it had melted into the background of their lives, the pain as common as breathing. Cindy said she saw her reflection in the troubled eyes of each.

"It's hard to lose a son," she said. "But we (all) lost a son in the Iraqi war."

The trip had one benefit that none of the Sheehans expected.

For a moment, life returned to the way it was before Casey died. They laughed, joked and bickered playfully as they briefly toured Seattle.

For the first time in 11 weeks, they felt whole again.

"That was the gift the president gave us, the gift of happiness, of being together," Cindy said.

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So she goes from feeling he gave her a gift to thinking he is evil. There are a couple possibilities here:
1: She saw a way to milk this for publicity. In other words she wants her 15 minutes of fame
2: Someone got ahold of her and poured honey into her ear till they convinced her that being a political pawn is a good thing.
3: She is trying to push her own political agenda and is using her dead son as leverage.

Any way you cut it her story is thin at best. If President Bush had refused to meet with her at all then I could see her having a bit more of a claim. However that is not the case. She has met with him, she was happy with the outcome of that meeting and only now, months later, is she trying to make a scene.

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Nobody really understood why Kuroi Madoushi wrote:
Anyone got a link to a news article or three about this?

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http://www.cnn.com/2005/US/08/16/peace.mom.ap/index.html

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,165811,00.html

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/8966183/

There, that's three.

Gadani fucked around with this message on 08-16-2005 at 05:53 PM.

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We were all impressed when Gadani wrote:
http://www.cnn.com/2005/US/08/16/peace.mom.ap/index.html

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,165811,00.html

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/8966183/

There, that's three.

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http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/html/nationworld/2002441709_iraqmom16.html

Curiousity overcame laziness after I looked at the above posted articles (Azziza's and Gadani's). I have to agree with Azziza's assessment of this situation. She expressed dissatisfaction with how the war is/was being handled and she already had some media attention as a person who had met with the president. Sounds to me like she couldn't pass up such a lucrative opportunity to advance her agenda.

There was a passage from Terry Pratchett's "Jingo" that I find myself thinking about often. In many ways, Pratchett is one of the most insightful teachers I've never actually met, and Jingo is insightful (written years ago, it deals with the main characters and a possible war with an arabian-style nation in a very satirical, but intelligent, sort of manner) without being preachy to either side of the argument.

Anyway, to set the scene here, they've come back from the war and Vimes is grudgingly accepting a promotion to the rank of Duke. He is at his heart a lawman, and to him war is the worst possible breaching of the peace conceivable. He has a hard time reconciling the world of political necessity and the greater good with the death of individual people. Vetinari is the ruler of the city of Ankh Morpork who is, as usual in total command of the situation, and shows himself to be more insightful than most.

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"I'm bought and sold, aren't I?" Vimes asked, shaking his head, "Bought and sold.'
"Not at all," said Vetinari.
"Yes I am. We all are. Even Rust. And all those buggers who got slaughtered. We're not part of the big picture, right? We're just bought and sold."

Vetinari was suddenly in front of Vimes, his chair hitting the floor behind the desk.
"Really? Men marched away, Vimes. And men marched back. How glorious the battles would have been that they never had to fight!" He hesitated, then shrugged. "And you say bought and sold? All right. But not, I think, needlessly spent."

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I think it's the same situation here. It's okay, even commendable, to question why we're at war. Obviously we don't want our loved ones to die. Sometimes it's necessary, however. And I daresay the vast majority of parents who have lost children over in Iraq understand that while they may not ever agree that their child had to die, they will at least accept the fact that their child died for a purpose.

Cindy Sheehan is at best a woman with a wounded heart who can't make it day to day without her son. At worst, she's using a dead man's legacy, borrowed for her cause on the worst sort of paternal basis that because it's her son he wouldn't mind, to propogate her political agenda. If someone were perverting my choices and actions to personal gain, I'd be appalled. If my wife were using our dead son's choices to self-righteously undermine the choices and things he stood for, I would be extremely hurt and angry. Would I divorce her? If she didn't mellow out, perhaps. That's just...wrong on a level I can scarce articulate.

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So she goes from feeling he gave her a gift to thinking he is evil. There are a couple possibilities here:
1: She saw a way to milk this for publicity. In other words she wants her 15 minutes of fame
2: Someone got ahold of her and poured honey into her ear till they convinced her that being a political pawn is a good thing.
3: She is trying to push her own political agenda and is using her dead son as leverage.

Any way you cut it her story is thin at best. If President Bush had refused to meet with her at all then I could see her having a bit more of a claim. However that is not the case. She has met with him, she was happy with the outcome of that meeting and only now, months later, is she trying to make a scene.

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Blindy. startled the peaceful upland Gorillas by blurting:
I think Bush made a mistake by not meeting with her before this all became big press.

I don't know how he's going to get out of it without losing face now, and maintianing face is pretty critical when you've got a 40% approval rating or whatever it is now.

Your thoughts?

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Why exactly do you think this idiot deserves a personal interview with the most powerful person on the planet, in addition to the one she's already had?

Stupid questions deserve a 1.

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Bloodsage wrote, obviously thinking too hard:
Why exactly do you think this idiot deserves a personal interview with the most powerful person on the planet, in addition to the one she's already had?

Stupid questions deserve a 1.

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Hey no voting my thread down just because of the idiots.

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Channeling the spirit of Sherlock Holmes, Azizza absently fondled Watson and proclaimed:
Hey no voting my thread down just because of the idiots.

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So. . .you and Blindy. . .are the same person. . . .?

. . . .

. . . .

. . . .

And the truth shall set you free!

She isn't a grieving mother, she's a political activist. Period. It would be idiocy for Bush to meet with her. In addition to dignifying her actions, doing so would be seen as an admission of "guilt".

That's about all there is to say. She's just another nutball with a "Blood for Oil" picket sign.

Maradon! fucked around with this message on 08-17-2005 at 01:20 AM.

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This insanity brought to you by Maradon!:
Cinty Sheehan AKA "The Bitch in the Ditch" was a far-left political activist long before her son died, being the founder of radical anti-war group "Gold Star Families for American Peace". Her family denounced her because she's exploiting her son's death to be a more effective political tool, not because she's doing silly things while grieving.

She isn't a grieving mother, she's a political activist. Period. It would be idiocy for Bush to meet with her. In addition to dignifying her actions, doing so would be seen as an admission of "guilt".

That's about all there is to say. She's just another nutball with a "Blood for Oil" picket sign.

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On a local radio show the host had a guest named Phil Kiver who was a solider in Iraq and wrote a book about it called 182 Days in Iraq. They were talking about Sheehan and even though he refered to her as "the worst kind of American" he is convinced her grief is genuine. He talked about how she spoke to him away from the cameras and asked him if she could hug him and pretend he was her son. She isn't conciously using her son's death as an excuse to bash Bush, she probably honestly believes Bush and his administration killed her son.

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x--JooJooFlopO-('-'Q) :
On a local radio show

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Don't you listen to Air America?

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the host had a guest named Phil Kiver who was a solider in Iraq and wrote a book about it called 182 Days in Iraq. They were talking about Sheehan and even though he refered to her as "the worst kind of American" he is convinced her grief is genuine. He talked about how she spoke to him away from the cameras and asked him if she could hug him and pretend he was her son. She isn't conciously using her son's death as an excuse to bash Bush, she probably honestly believes Bush and his administration killed her son.

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That's cool, but all the evidence and footage I've ever seen of her leads me to believe she's nothing but deliberately being political tool. I'm sure she's legitimately grieving over her son, but that is not the motivation for what she is doing.

Maradon! fucked around with this message on 08-17-2005 at 02:08 AM.

quote:

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Maradon! wrote, obviously thinking too hard:
That's cool, but all the evidence and footage I've ever seen of her leads me to believe she's nothing but deliberately being political tool. I'm sure she's legitimately grieving over her son, but that is not the motivation for what she is doing.

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I do listen to Air America, but the show I'm talking about is on when that insufferable cunt Randi Rhodes is on and I enjoy it more than any show on Air America. Anyway, I have no doubt that she's being used by leftist organizations/individuals that just want to make Bush look bad. But I seriously doubt this woman is thinking "How can I best use the death of my son to advance my agenda." She's probably thinking "These bastards killed my beautiful son and I won't stop until I make them take responsibility." She always hated these people and in her mind her son was one of many victims at their hands.

That's why I'm willing to cut this woman a little slack. She may be a liberal nutjob but she's also a mother with a lot of grief she has no proper outlet for thanks to the people using her.

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Bloodsage impressed everyone with:
So. . .you and Blindy. . .are the same person. . . .?

. . . .

. . . .

. . . .

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Doh. I started a thread about her on another board and am carrying on similar arguments on both. I got mixed up on which was which. Sorry.

Blindy. fucked around with this message on 08-17-2005 at 10:18 AM.

quote:

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While you read this, I'm gonna go make out with Bloodsage's mom:
Why exactly do you think this idiot deserves a personal interview with the most powerful person on the planet, in addition to the one she's already had?

Stupid questions deserve a 1.

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Why exactly do you think the most powerful person on the planet spends 20% of his time clearing brush in texas rather than taking 30 minutes to comfort a mother of a fallen soldier to silence all the complaints and press circulating around her?

Sorry about your loss lady, but you are not the only one move along. Stop embarrassing yourself and attempting to undermine the government.

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I gotta give it to Jackman with:
Because if he did it for one nutjob he would have to do it for all of them, and he already gave her some personal time.

Sorry about your loss lady, but you are not the only one move along. Stop embarrassing yourself and attempting to undermine the government.

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Not really, unless you're saying that our losses in Iraq are so incredibly high that the President's time would be simply consumed with 30 minute 2nd meetings with greiving "nutjob" parents. The majority of mothers are happy with just the first. She wants a second. Big deal. Give it to her, it's the least you can do.

I suppose I should further my position by explaining that I do think that we have a noble and justified reason for keeping troops in Iraq, which is why it counfounds me that Bush doesn't feel like sitting her down and explaining how securing a democracy in Iraq will change the region for the better.

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And I was all like 'Oh yeah?' and Blindy. was all like:
Why exactly do you think the most powerful person on the planet spends 20% of his time clearing brush in texas rather than taking 30 minutes to comfort a mother of a fallen soldier to silence all the complaints and press circulating around her?

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I havn't been following this trip, but in the past foreign dignitaries have considered it an honor to be invited down to the ranch. Sounds like a pretty good political tool to me.

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We were all impressed when Blindy. wrote:
The majority of mothers are happy with just the first. She wants a second. Big deal. Give it to her, it's the least you can do.

.

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I disagree the majority of parents and loved ones dont even get the first, giving her a second is not only unwarrented it would set a bad precedent.

She is hoping to get harrassed/arrested somthing to make her a martyr. If I was Bush's neighbor's I'd have had her removed for loitering sidestepping her goals.

Sadly they instead said "hey you can camp here".

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This one time, at Blindy. camp:
Not really, unless you're saying that our losses in Iraq are so incredibly high that the President's time would be simply consumed with 30 minute 2nd meetings with greiving "nutjob" parents. The majority of mothers are happy with just the first. She wants a second. Big deal. Give it to her, it's the least you can do.

I suppose I should further my position by explaining that I do think that we have a noble and justified reason for keeping troops in Iraq, which is why it counfounds me that Bush doesn't feel like sitting her down and explaining how securing a democracy in Iraq will change the region for the better.

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Try getting a single meeting with the president. You won't be able to, trust me. This woman was able to get a meeting once. That is something that is extremely difficult to do, but once wasn't enough for her. She feels that she is more important than you or I. Hell she feels she is more important than the other families that have lost loved ones in Iraq.

It is a huge deal to give this woman a second meeting. Say he gave it to her and then other family members decide they also want a second meeting. THe press would crucify him if he didn't give it to them so he would probably have to. Now say that only 10% of families that have lost loved ones in Iraq and Afghanistan want to meet with him for 30 minutes each. that is well over 100 hours that the president would have to spend dealing with grieving widows, mothers and the like on top of the time he has already spend with many of them. I would much rather he spent those hours doing more important things.

It amazes me that she, or anyone else, thinks she deserves another meeting with him. Once again her son volunteered to go to Iraq. He knew what he was getting into and went willingly. She can't seem to get that fact through her thick skull and is therefore trying to use his corpse to boost her own agenda. I am sorry, I don't see a Grieving woman, I see a person thinking only of them-self.

And as for Bush taking time away from the white house... Well you do realize that the president doesn't get any real "vacation" time. When he is at Camp david or his ranch, he is still expected to be working. These places have almost the same facilities as the white house and are able to perform many of the same functions. Yes he gets to go out hunting or whatever every once and a while. But just because he isn't in The White House doesn't' mean he is out of touch.

The Presidency is like an ice burg. We see about 10% of what is happening at any given time above the water. Everything else is hidden from us, and for good reason.

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Over the mountain, in between the ups and downs, I ran into Blindy. who doth quote:
Why exactly do you think the most powerful person on the planet spends 20% of his time clearing brush in texas rather than taking 30 minutes to comfort a mother of a fallen soldier to silence all the complaints and press circulating around her?

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Because, like I said, she is not acting as the mother of a fallen soldier, she is acting as a political activist. It would be seen as an admission of guilt to meet with her and would only incite further protesting.

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Maradon! likes to scream this out during sex:
Because, like I said, she is not acting as the mother of a fallen soldier, she is acting as a political activist. It would be seen as an admission of guilt to meet with her and would only incite further protesting.

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When her message is "What is the 'Noble Cause'", how the hell would meeting with her and telling her what it is be an admission of guilt?

She lost a son in Iraq.
She had a meeting with President Bush where he expressed his sorrow for her loss, and spoke with her about a number of things, including their faith.
She came out of said meeting happy and content that President Bush was right.
Now, months later, she is convinced he is the devil-spawn of Satan, demanding a second meeting to put forward the left-wing "OMG BLOOD FOR OIL!" arguments, and the press are feeding off it like it's the only news story in town??

Sounds like she needs a good wholesome dose of "shut the fuck up and deal with it".

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We were all impressed when Cavalier- wrote:
Let me get this straight.

She lost a son in Iraq.
She had a meeting with President Bush where he expressed his sorrow for her loss, and spoke with her about a number of things, including their faith.
She came out of said meeting happy and content that President Bush was right.
Now, months later, she is convinced he is the devil-spawn of Satan, demanding a second meeting to put forward the left-wing "OMG BLOOD FOR OIL!" arguments, and the press are feeding off it like it's the only news story in town??

Sounds like she needs a good wholesome dose of "shut the fuck up and deal with it".

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you pretty much hit the nail on the head.

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At least Azizza isn't Somthor:
you pretty much hit the nail on the head.

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Outside of the last line. The interviews I've read with her are pretty sedate from the left wing crazy standpoint. The crowd around her, on the other hand, is full of left wing crazys.

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Blindy. had this to say about (_|_):
Outside of the last line. The interviews I've read with her are pretty sedate from the left wing crazy standpoint. The crowd around her, on the other hand, is full of left wing crazys.

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Birds of a feather, they say.