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Rabidbunnylover had this to say about Optimus Prime:
Correlation does not imply causation.
No, the horse doesn't cause the buggy, but it is an interesting note when all the examples of horses that you're provided with are immediatly followed by buggies.
Insanity is doing the same thing over and over again and expecting a different result. Maradon! fucked around with this message on 03-03-2005 at 04:05 PM.
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So quoth Maradon!:
http://tinyurl.com/5s7qh
And their dental coverage is HORRIBLE!
*Brandishes the "Big Book of British Smiles" threateningly*
sigpic courtesy of This Guy, original modified by me
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Ja'Deth Issar Ka'bael had this to say about Optimus Prime:
And their dental coverage is HORRIBLE!*Brandishes the "Big Book of British Smiles" threateningly*
Why must you make this thread a house of LIES!?!
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There was much rejoicing when Maradon! said this:
No, the horse doesn't cause the buggy, but it is an interesting note when all the examples of horses that you're provided with are immediatly followed by buggies.Insanity is doing the same thing over and over again and expecting a different result.
Your second argument is not a case for correlation being causation, and you should never suggest that. There are other factors at play.
To teach this to the stats class I was in, my stats teacher came in one day, turned on the overhead, and showed a slide of rising number of storks (x-axis) with rising number of babies (y-axis) in some country. "So," he said, "you would all say that more storks would cause more babies?" We were just playing along so we agreed, then he turned around and made fun of us for agreeing that storks brought babies.
Often, two byproducts of one effect will have high correlations. An example of this is the average price of cars versus average number of televisions per household over some given length of time. If the economy is good, both of these will rise steadily, and correlation could even be as high as 0.95. This high correlation does not imply causality, though, and we could not say that we own more televisions because our cars are more expensive. In this case, the real cause is obvious, but it is often hidden.
I know you're not going to admit anything other than "US roxorz Europe suxorz", though, so I don't know why I waste my energy typing this.
I'm not disagreeing that American health care is very good, though. The tests are extremely extensive and it seems that we often check for everything (though this does result in some overdiagnosing and a lot of extra bills). I have no experience with other systems but I would guess that if they don't have similar methodologies then they might not get results up to par with ours. Snugglits fucked around with this message on 03-03-2005 at 04:24 PM.
Or am I thinking of something else? That article seemed very overly-biased, too.
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Snugglits had this to say about dark elf butts:
Often, two byproducts of one effect will have high correlations.
And they ARE related just as frequently as they aren't.
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Mortious wrote, obviously thinking too hard:
That article seemed very overly-biased, too.
Information that disagrees with a preconcieved notion frequently seems biased.
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Maradon! wrote, obviously thinking too hard:
Information that disagrees with a preconcieved notion frequently seems biased.
Oh, I agree that socialised healthcare isn't a good thing, but the article seemed to say the same thing over.. and over.. and over.. and over as if the writer just hated Britain altogether.
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Mortious was naked while typing this:
Oh, I agree that socialised healthcare isn't a good thing, but the article seemed to say the same thing over.. and over.. and over.. and over as if the writer just hated Britain altogether.
Probably went on vacation there once and is used to eating good food.
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JooJooFlop Model 2000 was programmed to say:
Probably went on vacation there once and is used to eating good food.
London was voted the best place in the world to eat by the extremely renowned 'Gourmet Magazine'
Having said that, the NHS sucks.
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This one time, at Niklas camp:
London was voted the best place in the world to eat by the extremely renowned 'Gourmet Magazine'
I don't trust a gourmet magazine titled 'Gourmet Magazine.'
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JooJooFlop obviously shouldn't have said:
I don't trust a gourmet magazine titled 'Gourmet Magazine.'
Well, it's the most well known good food magazine in the world (an american publication, if I may add)
Oh wait, no I'm not 
Top Hospitals of 2004 Pesco fucked around with this message on 03-03-2005 at 06:35 PM.
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Maradon! attempted to be funny by writing:
The fact that socialized medicine has never worked anywhere it has been practiced IS a noteworthy fact.
You know, no matter how many times you say that, it isn't going to become any less of a fiction.
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JooJooFlop spewed forth this undeniable truth:
I don't trust a gourmet magazine titled 'Gourmet Magazine.'
I tried it once, it wasn't that great. Needed lots of salt just to get it down.
Vernaltemptress fucked around with this message on 03-04-2005 at 05:44 AM.
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Maradon!'s unholy Backstreet Boys obsession manifested in:
The fact that socialized medicine has never worked anywhere it has been practiced IS a noteworthy fact.
Uh, it works quite well here in Germany. And it has worked VERY WELL for over half century.
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Maradon! had this to say about Captain Planet:
The fact that socialized medicine has never worked anywhere it has been practiced IS a noteworthy fact.
After some downtime past unemployment issues, socialized medicine over here in Sweden is now working better and better daily. People are less sick (in the terms that treaments are having more of an effect, so don't try a 'of course it's working better if there's less demand'), waiting times are going down and drugs are becoming cheaper.
I guess it's all just an illusion though, since there's no way fact can compare to a Maradon statement(tm). Zaza fucked around with this message on 03-04-2005 at 06:14 AM.
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Zaza had this to say about Captain Planet:
After some downtime past unemployment issues, socialized medicine over here in Sweden is now working better and better daily. People are less sick (in the terms that treaments are having more of an effect, so don't try a 'of course it's working better if there's less demand'), waiting times are going down and drugs are becoming cheaper.I guess it's all just an illusion though, since there's no way fact can compare to a Maradon statement(tm).
And isn't your income tax near 50% to pay for all that socialism?
--Satan, quoted by John Milton
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Bloodsage flip-flopped when they said:
And isn't your income tax near 50% to pay for all that socialism?
Isn't that completely irrelevant to the point of wheter Socialized Medicine works or not?
If your logic is that it doesn't work because we pay high taxes then by definition nothing at all works in this country. 
(Also, MY personal income tax is nowhere near 50%. 50% is the top bracket.) Zaza fucked around with this message on 03-05-2005 at 05:36 AM.
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Check out the big brain on Zaza!
Isn't that completely irrelevant to the point of wheter Socialized Medicine works or not?If your logic is that it doesn't work because we pay high taxes then by definition nothing at all works in this country.
(Also, MY personal income tax is nowhere near 50%. 50% is the top bracket.)
You're just being deliberately obtuse here now. He's insinuating that while it may work, your income taxes are insanely high to make it work. In the US, we in general have a lower income tax rate, and most jobs have insurance, which even combined with taxes, don't hit that 50% mark.
sigpic courtesy of This Guy, original modified by me
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Ja'Deth Issar Ka'bael had this to say about Pirotess:
You're just being deliberately obtuse here now. He's insinuating that while it may work, your income taxes are insanely high to make it work. In the US, we in general have a lower income tax rate, and most jobs have insurance, which even combined with taxes, don't hit that 50% mark.
A really high tax rate is not so much a problem when the services you receive in return are of equal or greater value.
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Pvednes wrote this stupid crap:
A really high tax rate is not so much a problem when the services you receive in return are of equal or greater value.
I don't know much about Australia's system, or Sweden's or Germany's. What services are included? What is your income tax rate? What is not included? What in general is your cost of living?
Uhh, I just got out of class so maybe someone else can think of other questions we can compare the answers of. Work out pros and cons of each system. It's hard to debate about something like this without being completely informed.
Lyinar Ka`Bael, Piney Fresh Druidess - Luclin
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Mod spewed forth this undeniable truth:
Even as a proponent of socialized healthcare I see the US having high cancer survivial rates as entirely possible, cancer research is in large part going on in the US and patients there have access to new developments sooner than anywhere else, how much debt they have to go into to pay for it is another matter but it probably beats being dead.
Over $10,000 dollars in medical bills when I was little. My grandfather, who had that kind of money, refused to help. My parents had to declare bankruptcy.
But yeah, I'm glad I'm not dead. That would have sucked.
Lyinar Ka`Bael, Piney Fresh Druidess - Luclin
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Ja'Deth Issar Ka'bael had this to say about Tron:
You're just being deliberately obtuse here now. He's insinuating that while it may work, your income taxes are insanely high to make it work. In the US, we in general have a lower income tax rate, and most jobs have insurance, which even combined with taxes, don't hit that 50% mark.
I figured that, but it's totally irrelevant to the discussion, as I wasn't arguing the point Socialized medicine will never work if you don't have the tax money to fund it.
I'm not really sure WHO would argue that point or why Bloodsage brought it up? 
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Lyinar Ka`Bael had breaking news:
I don't know much about Australia's system, or Sweden's or Germany's. What services are included? What is your income tax rate? What is not included? What in general is your cost of living?Uhh, I just got out of class so maybe someone else can think of other questions we can compare the answers of. Work out pros and cons of each system. It's hard to debate about something like this without being completely informed.
It's hard to cover in a broad swipe, but I can explain how my medical coverage works.
Any non-routine visit to a doctor or a care central has a standarized cost (Usually about $30). If your total bill for such visits (kept track of through a stamp card) reaches more than $200, you do not need to pay anymore for such visits for the rest of the year.
The state pays around half of surgery costs for such things as sight deficencies. Nothing for 'cosmetic' surgery. Everything except a tiny part for life-threatening surgery such as cancer treatment. Medicine is subsidized and fairly cheap, we pay a LOT less for drugs than you do.
Drawback is the waiting times for some types of surgery, they can get pretty absurd, but if you have the money you can get an operation at a private hospital much like you can in the states - just have to pay for it yourself.
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Lyinar Ka`Bael had this to say about the Spice Girls:
I don't know much about Australia's system, or Sweden's or Germany's. What services are included? What is your income tax rate? What is not included? What in general is your cost of living?Uhh, I just got out of class so maybe someone else can think of other questions we can compare the answers of. Work out pros and cons of each system. It's hard to debate about something like this without being completely informed.
Here you basically pay a set amount of every bill which constantly changes due to political concerns but usually is around 10-20$, waiting times can be an issue for certain procedures and hospitals can't really afford much comfort with the money they are given but the actual medical staff are, in my experience, very competent and a good level of medical equipment is provided. Medicine works the same way, you pay some small set amount of prescriptions you need, the rest is provided. Basic dental issues and reasonable medical issues are covered (no cosmetic / vanity procedures or procedures deemed not neccesary by your doctor, i.e. someone demanding they be scanned for brain turmors every time the have a headache, etc.), no mental health treatment is covered. Income tax varies a lot based on your income and while the maximum rate is 50% the vast majority of people pay nowhere near that, staying mostly in the 30ish percentage for middle class households.
Combine that with the facts pointing to better quality by privatized systems, and I think it's important.
The only people who win with socialized medicine are the people who don't contribute.
--Satan, quoted by John Milton
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ACES! Another post by Lyinar Ka`Bael:
I don't know much about Australia's system, or Sweden's or Germany's. What services are included? What is your income tax rate? What is not included? What in general is your cost of living?Uhh, I just got out of class so maybe someone else can think of other questions we can compare the answers of. Work out pros and cons of each system. It's hard to debate about something like this without being completely informed.
Sweden's income tax is near 50%. It's VAT is around 25% if I remember correctly. And I think they tax dividends and interest income at around 30%.
Cha-ching!
--Satan, quoted by John Milton
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Bloodsage had this to say about John Romero:
The point is that, all things considered, socialized medicine is probably more expensive than privatized. The only difference is that the cost is hidden. At least for anyone middle class.Combine that with the facts pointing to better quality by privatized systems, and I think it's important.
The only people who win with socialized medicine are the people who don't contribute.
It really depends. I'm willing to bet that if I have cancer here, I'll end up paying less in taxes that go directly towards healthcare than I would have to pony up for the expensive treatments.
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Bloodsage flip-flopped when they said:
Sweden's income tax is near 50%. It's VAT is around 25% if I remember correctly. And I think they tax dividends and interest income at around 30%.Cha-ching!
VAT is 25%, but exempts a lot of things (fode for example) and are lower for others. Income tax is around 55% at top bracket.
We pay a lot of taxes, given, but we most certainly get things for it.
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Check out the big brain on Zaza!
It really depends. I'm willing to bet that if I have cancer here, I'll end up paying less in taxes that go directly towards healthcare than I would have to pony up for the expensive treatments.
Making you, of course, a burden on others.
--Satan, quoted by John Milton
